Supra 2JZ-GTE swap into 240Z (pics)

[Clifton]

A 900rwhp 2jz on the street would get killed in a quick street race, 2nd gear 3k roll on with a small turboed Honda or anything. 1/4 mile would be different as you have time to run them down. You would have to run straight race gas, 30+ psi and wait till 5500 rpm for full boost. A smaller turboed 500 hp 2jz would make full boost by 3500-4k and have a higher fun factor on the street were quicker spool makes it alot funner to drive and rip in and out of traffic without dropping 2 gears everytime you need power. It's unrealistic to run race gas at all times, so now your 900hp 2jz is a laggy slow spooling 18-20 psi 500hp 2jz with 900hp braging rights on 30 psi and race gas.

[Hybrid240z]

Here are the images that Cyrus sent to me today but picturetrail won't let me upload vids. Can someone host the vid for Cyrus? The downpipe looks awesome.

 

Marcos

 

 

 

 

[Guest Your Car is Slow]

A 900rwhp 2jz on the street would get killed in a quick street race, 2nd gear 3k roll on with a small turboed Honda or anything. 1/4 mile would be different as you have time to run them down. You would have to run straight race gas, 30+ psi and wait till 5500 rpm for full boost. A smaller turboed 500 hp 2jz would make full boost by 3500-4k and have a higher fun factor on the street were quicker spool makes it alot funner to drive and rip in and out of traffic without dropping 2 gears everytime you need power. It's unrealistic to run race gas at all times, so now your 900hp 2jz is a laggy slow spooling 18-20 psi 500hp 2jz with 900hp braging rights on 30 psi and race gas.

 

Its safe to say you have no friggin clue what you are talking about with some of the comments in your post.

 

Having ridden in, raced against, etc a 900rwhp supra (ok 865..but close enough)...just about everything you said is inaccurate.

[Clifton]

I've seen enough dyno sheets to know they don't have shite bellow 5k. You will need 30-35+ psi and race gas. Is this not accurate. Does that make a fun daily driver, or street car in general? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[cyrus]

The following is true

 

The Fast and Furious is a bad movie and...

 

900hp supras lag hard (lets just say they do not have punch like a 900hp 600ci BB chevy shall we)

900hp supras need race gas (=$$$)

900hp aren't too reliable with stock bottoms

900hp supra are expensive

900hp supra do not pass the smog check

Too sum it up 900hp supras post ET's like a 600~700 car but have good trap mile (anyone seen the viper vs supra vid)

900hp supra are expensive

 

450 hp supras spool faster

450 hp supras use pump gas

450 hp supras are in my budget

450 hp supra is my goal

 

now lets talk about how:

1. I can bend or weld that stainless steel down pipe close to the trans?

2. what is the larget spearco intercooler I can use?

3. What is a good ac condensor to mount on a 240Z?

4. I am considering bashing the firewall to push the drivetrain even further back.

 

I will be making mounts soon. I plan on tying the datsun crossmember to the those thick metal mounts for the fartherst back suspension rod mounts. I hope to have pics.

[slownrusty]

Nice reply Cyrus!

 

You know the old joke.....What does a 900hp, a 600hp and 450hp Supra TT have in common? They all run 12s

 

Yasin

[majik16106]

Bashing the firewall isnt a bad idea. Im considering doing that when i swap out to the 1jz if i ever get around to doing it. As for Ac, on mine is custom lines and a supra compressor and everything else is the datsun pieces and it works fine. and for 450 hp, use whatever is close to the medium NPR intercooler size. We had one mocked up and it looked like it would fit really nicely.

[Guest Your Car is Slow]

I see im going to have to do this the long way...*sigh

 

Ok..here goes

 

A 900rwhp 2jz on the street would get killed in a quick street race

 

A blanket..ignorant..and incorrect statement. Unless your idea of a "quick street race" is a ricer coming up to said supra...mashing the throttle and jumping out..then letting off the gas and calling it a win. Pathetic IMO..but if thats what you have to do to win..more power to you.

 

, 2nd gear 3k roll on with a small turboed Honda or anything

 

Since when do you dictate the gear..and rpm of your opponent? Ive never been involved in a race where someone said (hey lets go from 3k rpm)....however this goes back to your original statement where you just jump someone and then let off as they are about to suck the paint off your car....more power to you.

 

1/4 mile would be different as you have time to run them down.

 

Your street races last less than 1/4 mile? Thats pathetic..why even bother racing? From a roll..you cover 1/4 mile in a rather short time...thats just silly to me..but if thats your style of racing...

 

You would have to run straight race gas,

 

Again..do you people not understand the concept of a boost controller...water/methanol/propane injection...etc?

 

30+ psi and wait till 5500 rpm for full boost.

 

If I was racing someone from a roll...id be sure to be in the proper gear and proper RPM...those that dont are stupid.

 

A smaller turboed 500 hp 2jz would make full boost by 3500-4k and have a higher fun factor on the street

 

Your opinion..not fact. I happen to disagree...and since you have never driven either...I dont feel you are an expert on the subject. I read a magazine article on the ferarri enzo...however I dont feel that makes me an expert on the cars capabilities.

 

were quicker spool makes it alot funner to drive and rip in and out of traffic without dropping 2 gears everytime you need power.

 

Again...when im racing or attempting to accellerate quickly...I downshift regardles of what car(or bike) im driving/riding...why wouldnt you?

 

It's unrealistic to run race gas at all times, so now your 900hp 2jz is a laggy slow spooling 18-20 psi 500hp 2jz with 900hp braging rights on 30 psi and race gas.

 

Again...as posted earlier...your concept and ideas of "spool times" of todays modern large single turbos is highly flawed.

[Guest Your Car is Slow]

900hp supras lag hard (lets just say they do not have punch like a 900hp 600ci BB chevy shall we)

900hp supras need race gas (=$$$)

900hp aren't too reliable with stock bottoms

900hp stink in a short street race see line one

900hp supra are expensive

900hp supra do not pass the smog check

Too sum it up 900hp supras post ET's like a 600~700 car but have good trap mile (anyone seen the viper vs supra vid)

900hp supra are expensive

 

No supras have the "initial punch" of a 600ci 900hp V8....300, 500, or 1000hp...so I dont see why this has any bearing to the situation.

 

as for expensive...cost is relative..once you get past the BPU stage...everything is "expensive".

 

900hp supras only need "race gas" when racing...and can drive around town at a comfortable 600 - 700hp on pump gas...I dont quite see your logic in thinking someone has to store 55gallon drums of race gas in his garage just to leave the house in a supra of this nature. If one is going to go race..you go prepared...if you are just going out to drive around...there is no need for it. Even the 500 and 600hp supras run "race gas" when racing at the track..or on the dyno...everyone wants to make the most of their car...much like making sure your bottle is filled if you run nitrous..its just part of being prepared.

 

as for your other question

 

1. I can bend or weld that stainless steel down pipe close to the trans?

 

I dont see why not..although im sure you would alter its performance slightly...not to mention that thing gets so insanely hot...I dont know how it would impact the trans if that close to it?

[cyrus]

Not to digress too much. A lot of good points have been made. I have a supra motor. AND I understand the nature of turbos etc. I just want people to understand a basic principle. If you compare:

 

My V8 LS1 240z (tuned to 335 rwhp) (2600lb)

My 2JZ-GTE 240z (tuned to 335 rwhp) (2600lb)

 

1. Both have the same power

2. The 2JZ would ET slower

3. Both would run similar MPH (because of the power)

4. The V8 power delivery is much better

 

It is important for people to know just because a car can dyno at a great number, it may not deliver in the real world racing, because of lag and turbo parameters (ie special setting, fuel, boost for dyno only, like Your Car is Slow said, 900 hp supra only run 500-600 hp on pump gas so there full power is NOT really avaible)

[Guest Your Car is Slow]

The original comparison of "lag" however was not between a Large single turbo 2jZ vs an LS1 V8..it was between two turbo 2JZ's...one making 900..the other making 500 (both assumed to be singles..although I suppose one could replace the stock twins with another set of twins). Also ET means absolutely diddly in a street race (the original argument as well).

 

Most recent large singles (take the SP74 for example) spool up quite nicely in comparison to their predecessors.

 

I personally would rather drive around at 600hp comfortably...and have the capability to dial in unlimited power..than be limited to only 600hp all the time

 

Nothing is ever fast enough IMO

[cyrus]

So now

1. I can bend or weld that stainless steel down pipe close to the trans to fit in tunnel?

2. what is the larget spearco intercooler I can use?

3. What is a good ac condensor to mount on a 240Z?

4. I am considering bashing the firewall to push the drivetrain even further back.

[Clifton]

I see im going to have to do this the long way...*sigh

 

Ok..here goes

 

A 900rwhp 2jz on the street would get killed in a quick street race

 

A blanket..ignorant..and incorrect statement. Unless your idea of a "quick street race" is a ricer coming up to said supra...mashing the throttle and jumping out..then letting off the gas and calling it a win. Pathetic IMO..but if thats what you have to do to win..more power to you.

 

' date=' 2nd gear 3k roll on with a small turboed Honda or anything[/quote']

 

Since when do you dictate the gear..and rpm of your opponent? Ive never been involved in a race where someone said (hey lets go from 3k rpm)....however this goes back to your original statement where you just jump someone and then let off as they are about to suck the paint off your car....more power to you.

 

1/4 mile would be different as you have time to run them down.

 

Your street races last less than 1/4 mile? Thats pathetic..why even bother racing? From a roll..you cover 1/4 mile in a rather short time...thats just silly to me..but if thats your style of racing...

 

You would have to run straight race gas,

 

Again..do you people not understand the concept of a boost controller...water/methanol/propane injection...etc?

 

30+ psi and wait till 5500 rpm for full boost.

 

If I was racing someone from a roll...id be sure to be in the proper gear and proper RPM...those that dont are stupid.

 

A smaller turboed 500 hp 2jz would make full boost by 3500-4k and have a higher fun factor on the street

 

Your opinion..not fact. I happen to disagree...and since you have never driven either...I dont feel you are an expert on the subject. I read a magazine article on the ferarri enzo...however I dont feel that makes me an expert on the cars capabilities.

 

were quicker spool makes it alot funner to drive and rip in and out of traffic without dropping 2 gears everytime you need power.

 

Again...when im racing or attempting to accellerate quickly...I downshift regardles of what car(or bike) im driving/riding...why wouldnt you?

 

It's unrealistic to run race gas at all times, so now your 900hp 2jz is a laggy slow spooling 18-20 psi 500hp 2jz with 900hp braging rights on 30 psi and race gas.

 

Again...as posted earlier...your concept and ideas of "spool times" of todays modern large single turbos is highly flawed.

 

1. Sometimes it just happens to be that a race may start at a speed at which you are in second gear at 3k rpms or 3rd and at an rpm not favorable to fast spool. If someone wants to race me I'll oblige them, not say Oh wait It has to be on my terms. I'm always ready.

 

2. 900 hp isn't going to hook up in 1,2, or 3rd on street tires.

 

3. Say senaro 1. happens and you down shift to 1st or 2nd to get the revs up so you can make boost. Traction, what.

 

4. Modulating the throttle in a race in 1st or 2nd to avoid full boost (no traction) but still have enough boost (some traction) is hard enough with 400 hp, 900hp on street tires, ya.

 

4. If your street race is anywere near 1/4 mile in length you are an idiot especially in a 900 hp car. Unless maybe on a deserted road in BFE. I'm not looking to kill people. If someone has me after a few hundred feet and I'm not gaining so be it, I lost. I'm not going to run up to 120 mph in town/traffic to hopefully catch him and prove a point.

 

5. Spool. you cannot have a 100lb/min turbo spool reach full boost at 3500rpm on a 3l motor, thanks to compressor surge, regardless of the new GT wheel technology. To make that power you also won't be running an O or P trim, .58 for quick spool either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cyrus.

I don't know how much different the ac compressor mounting is on the 7m comparred to the 2jz, yours looks to be in the same rough area. I know I wouldn't be able to move mine back more than maybe another 1/2" before I get into the motor mount coming up from the crossmember. I wouldn't get into the firewall for an inch or 2 more. It will already sit alot further back than the L motor. I am running a universal parallel flow condenser 23.5"x12", under $80. They make larger ones but this one fit tight up against the radiator. I would sell the down pipe and fund the exhaust with the sell and make what you need. You can weld stainless with mig and steel wire. I have on stuff that won't be seen as the weld will still rust.

[Guest Your Car is Slow]

1. Sometimes it just happens to be that a race may start at a speed at which you are in second gear at 3k rpms or 3rd and at an rpm not favorable to fast spool. If someone wants to race me I'll oblige them, not say Oh wait It has to be on my terms. I'm always ready.

 

Then how can you sit there and think your opponent (in the 900hp car) would not also match his gear and rpm to the conditions? Silly argument on your part.

 

2. 900 hp isn't going to hook up in 1,2, or 3rd on street tires.

 

856 was managable in 2nd...and didnt have a problem in 3rd..perhaps you need to learn a bit more about suspension instead of just tires...or learn that the throttle has more than two settings (on and off) and its progressive.

 

3. Say senaro 1. happens and you down shift to 1st or 2nd to get the revs up so you can make boost. Traction, what.

 

See above comment

 

4. Modulating the throttle in a race in 1st or 2nd to avoid full boost (no traction) but still have enough boost (some traction) is hard enough with 400 hp, 900hp on street tires, ya.

 

See above comment and add learn to drive better.

 

4. If your street race is anywere near 1/4 mile in length you are an idiot especially in a 900 hp car. Unless maybe on a deserted road in BFE. I'm not looking to kill people. If someone has me after a few hundred feet and I'm not gaining so be it, I lost. I'm not going to run up to 120 mph in town/traffic to hopefully catch him and prove a point.

 

So let me get this straight...im crusing down the road at say 55 (average speed on most multi lane roads in the country...im going 81fps (roughly) and I would complete 1320 feet in 16 seconds if I didnt accellerate. Now taking a 900hp vehicle at full throttle accelleration that already would eclipse the 1/4 from a stop in say 10ish seconds....with a 55mph head start....we are talking less than 7 seconds to reach 1320 feet from the start of the race. I cant recall the last time a rollon race lasted 7 seconds...perhaps I dont hang out in the crowd you do...one gear races are for ricers. Most of the big power top end cars and other bikes want to go from 80 to as large as your balls are (sometimes well over 175)...I can promise you thats more than 1/4 of a mile.

 

5. Spool. you cannot have a 100lb/min turbo spool reach full boost at 3500rpm on a 3l motor, thanks to compressor surge, regardless of the new GT wheel technology. To make that power you also won't be running an O or P trim, .58 for quick spool either.

 

Again..where does this magical 3500 rpm number come from and why does the car you are racing always have to be at or below this number so you have the advantage? That just seems ridiculous....especially in your first quote saying you never make an opponent race on your terms...I guess that only applies to debates eh?

[Clifton]

1. Sometimes it just happens to be that a race may start at a speed at which you are in second gear at 3k rpms or 3rd and at an rpm not favorable to fast spool. If someone wants to race me I'll oblige them, not say Oh wait It has to be on my terms. I'm always ready.

 

Then how can you sit there and think your opponent (in the 900hp car) would not also match his gear and rpm to the conditions? Silly argument on your part.

 

2. 900 hp isn't going to hook up in 1,2, or 3rd on street tires.

 

856 was managable in 2nd...and didnt have a problem in 3rd..perhaps you need to learn a bit more about suspension instead of just tires...or learn that the throttle has more than two settings (on and off) and its progressive.

 

3. Say senaro 1. happens and you down shift to 1st or 2nd to get the revs up so you can make boost. Traction, what.

 

See above comment

 

4. Modulating the throttle in a race in 1st or 2nd to avoid full boost (no traction) but still have enough boost (some traction) is hard enough with 400 hp, 900hp on street tires, ya.

 

See above comment and add learn to drive better.

 

4. If your street race is anywere near 1/4 mile in length you are an idiot especially in a 900 hp car. Unless maybe on a deserted road in BFE. I'm not looking to kill people. If someone has me after a few hundred feet and I'm not gaining so be it, I lost. I'm not going to run up to 120 mph in town/traffic to hopefully catch him and prove a point.

 

So let me get this straight...im crusing down the road at say 55 (average speed on most multi lane roads in the country...im going 81fps (roughly) and I would complete 1320 feet in 16 seconds if I didnt accellerate. Now taking a 900hp vehicle at full throttle accelleration that already would eclipse the 1/4 from a stop in say 10ish seconds....with a 55mph head start....we are talking less than 7 seconds to reach 1320 feet from the start of the race. I cant recall the last time a rollon race lasted 7 seconds...perhaps I dont hang out in the crowd you do...one gear races are for ricers. Most of the big power top end cars and other bikes want to go from 80 to as large as your balls are (sometimes well over 175)...I can promise you thats more than 1/4 of a mile.

 

5. Spool. you cannot have a 100lb/min turbo spool reach full boost at 3500rpm on a 3l motor, thanks to compressor surge, regardless of the new GT wheel technology. To make that power you also won't be running an O or P trim, .58 for quick spool either.

 

Again..where does this magical 3500 rpm number come from and why does the car you are racing always have to be at or below this number so you have the advantage? That just seems ridiculous....especially in your first quote saying you never make an opponent race on your terms...I guess that only applies to debates eh?

 

Ok last reply, I'm tired of explaning stuff and cluttring up this post more than I have. Experience will come in time Grasshopper.

 

You seem to know alot, maybe alot of second hand knowledge riding in the biitch seat of you friends car. None of it could be first hand or you would know most of what I am talking about.

 

 

I have no terms 3-3.5k is just were the revs usually are when cruising, changing lanes, and passing. Yes some times you must down shift. But quicker spool makes a car more enjoyable in traffic, you wouldn't know.

 

3500-4500 rpm, whatever you want. You say they spool fast. BS

 

Downshift and get the revs. You say 856 is managable. HMMM A a 350 HP

Z has traction problems. Go figure. Oh wait I think you are comparing a 315mm tired, over weight MKIV.

 

You say "it's not an on and off switch". In first gear it may as well be if you are trying to reach peak boost without spinning. I don't think you have actually driven a light car with power at 20+psi.

 

I guess were you live there is a place to run someone to 175mph. On my drive home there isn't. If a C5 wants a quick spank I don't have to go to the "country" to go 175, I'm not too proud to lose from a 55-75 race. I have a track car when I get the itch to go wheel to wheel at 100+ and am not worried about wadding it up on a TRACK. I don't think it requires balls to go 175 on the street, maybe something else though. It only takes HP not skill to go 80-175mph or more.

 

I don't hang out in a "crowd". What ever comes around when driving is what comes around. Honda, MKIV, or whatever. The big power, big headed guys don't do 1 or 2 gear races cause they'll loose and it would crush there ego. Do you frequent the SF board, MKIV stuff in specific. Most seem to think they are the greatest cars made. You would fit right in. You think a laggy, peaky power band is enjoyable on the street. I don't. A race car is different, You can't have both. I think your friends ( back to the 856rwhp guy) have race setups they drive on the street so they need to race on there terms, in a straight line, no turning, no braking, cause that's all heavy MKIV's are good for other than there donor motor.

[Guest Nic-Rebel450CA]

2. 900 hp isn't going to hook up in 1,2, or 3rd on street tires.

 

856 was managable in 2nd...and didnt have a problem in 3rd..perhaps you need to learn a bit more about suspension instead of just tires...or learn that the throttle has more than two settings (on and off) and its progressive.

 

I'm going to chime in here just cuz I know that there are people that are going to be reading this interesting turbo thread for useful information.

 

Yes, if you drop it down a gear to an RPM making 856 HP you are going to have traction problems. If it doesnt brake loose, it is going to lift the front tires and flip over. I think the misunderstanding here is that the friend is not making 856HP at the point that he is shifting to, if he was, you probably wouldnt be here to tell the story.

 

In short, when an engine boasts a peak HP that is high, that is not the HP it is running at every RPM. Check the dyno graph and see what the HP rating is for the RPM he was at.

[Guest brianglawson]

wow i must say that this is great, i am very curious to see how this turns out, should be great fun, i always thought the 6 speed was too big for the tranny tunnel though

[Guest bastaad525]

I think your friends ( back to the 856rwhp guy) have race setups they drive on the street so they need to race on there terms, in a straight line, no turning, no braking, cause that's all heavy MKIV's are good for other than there donor motor.

 

Um... no dude, MKIV's, while heavy, aren't like old muscle cars, they turn and brake just fine, thank you. Stock MKIV's on stock street tires can pull close to 1g on a skidpad and their slalom speed is up to snuff as well. They have huge brakes that have no problem hauling them to a stop in short order. They are true sports/GT cars with handling performance to match their acceleration abilities. Now I can't say for a 'race setup' of course if they are just drag race setups or whatever, but to generalize and say that MKIV's are only good for going in a straight line makes me wonder if you know what YOU are talking about....

[Guest Your Car is Slow]

Ignorance is bliss clifton...some people can live going through life that way. more power to you.

 

If you are content with your current power levels....then good on ya...lots of people like being slow

 

However dont sit there and assume that everyone making more power than you is slower...less streetable...and has less fun than you simply because of the shortcomings of your vehicle in its current state.

 

 

n short, when an engine boasts a peak HP that is high, that is not the HP it is running at every RPM.

 

Wow...really? Thanks for clearing that up...what is your advice for running around the house with scissors?

[stony]

Ok this was a decent thread. I would hate to see it get locked up. Take your argument somewhere else this is not the place for it

 

thanks