pparaska Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Kids!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Oh, Mike Kelly is being unfair again... Not the case at all... HERE is my problem with the original post from RCNSC: "I doubt it, but whatever", But there have been others... I'm 38 years old, and I've owned over 100 cars to date. I know as of this last week that BMW has build quality issues, along with VW, and Mercedes. How do I know? Because I'm researching a new car for my wife and we are looking at BMWs, Acura 3.2 TLs, Toyota Solaros, Audi A4s, and a few others. My wife has picked these models, and I've started doing the research on issues.. Because I know ALL the problems I had with the vette when I got it, and those build quality issues... I have $10K sitting in the bank as a down payment for my wife's new car and another $3500 per month I'm collecting after all bills and obligations are paid, so we're looking to buy her something NICE... The sky is the limit. Most of you guys know me to research EVERYTHING before I spend a DIME. This often includes going to a dealership and talking to a service manager to get educated on what to look for... RCNSC, Your original comment was that it was just your opinion... Then I posted mine and you gave the "I doubt it, but whatever" comment. Then you give the reasons why you "like the M3" over the Vette... They are opinion and taste. I like the BMW and have been a passenger at the track in two M3s. Nice cars. But again, so are a lot of other cars. The rear seat in the M3 is useless for anything but storage and small children, of which I have none. Your comments on WHY you like the M3 are again, opinion based. Your opinion is based on what you read, and what you gleen from your friends Dads buying experience... Your opinion comes vicariously from others, therefore it carries less weight. Now before you get emotional and post something.. Read that statement again and back it up with FACTS, and first hand knowledge. How many interiors have you pulled appart in your brief 17 years to find that annoying squeek? Ever fabricate or install anything on your own? My point is that in the week of research I did after finding out that "That cute little two door BMW M something or other" my wife was talking about was a 2001 M3. YEA, I got ALL excited about having a Vette in the garage and a BMW in the driveway... Until I noticed the large number of used 1999-up M3s in the paper and autotrader... So I started diggin and found a HOST of issues with BUILD QUALITY. As I mentioned in the previous post, I called the three guys I know who have them, and guess what? One of them traded his M3 in on... a HONDA because he was tired of taking it back to the dealer for warranty issues... For the rest of you, I'm not running a popularity contest, never have, never will. All I ask is that we keep it civil, intelligent, and level. Yea, I've had to hammer a few of you over the years for posting inappropriately, but we try to keep it fair and balanced. However, We're here first and foremost for the technical data posted here for all to enjoy... Not "Opinions stated as fact". If this rubs you the wrong way, get over it. Mike Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Seen it. Those guys are assholes. Jermey Clarksons goofy British ass or that scrawny little new guy. He raves on and on about a shitty ass MG........ .....any piece of crap from the UK. .......that stupid Jag..... Sounds like a crappy British car to me.... You might well be in with a shot for the job of Top Gear's USA correspondent. And my tone is plenty civil and never demeaning or rude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Seen it. Those guys are assholes. Jermey Clarksons goofy British ass or that scrawny little new guy. He raves on and on about a shitty ass MG........ .....any piece of crap from the UK. .......that stupid Jag..... Sounds like a crappy British car to me.... You might well be in with a shot for the job of Top Gear's USA correspondent. And my tone is plenty civil and never demeaning or rude. OOOOOhh Beehave! (austin powers accent) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Yeah and quit knocking British cars. Any country that could produce the Merlin powered Spitfire.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicker240 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 this is the best stuff I have read in a long time.Keep up the great work everyone!! So much love,soooo much love......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMS Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 GROUP HUG! RCNSC - Don't throw up your arms and walk away like an irritated teenager, because it proves your detractor's point. You DID make some inflamatory statements which usually would have flown under the radar screens, but this time did not. Just say, "I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I just got excited" and be done with it. We've supported you FAR more often than we've castigated you, so get over it. Oh, and you're absolutely right that the newer generation M3 is an impressive car, but it's proving to be nowhere near as durable as the e36 or e30 M3's. The more you complicate something, the easier it is to screw it up. HS30-H - picking on spelling, especially when the issue is a missed keystroke, isn't cricket (to borrow a phrase!). You're right on as far as Top Gear is concerned. They're big entertainment, but they're definitely not in it for the long-term testing. Playing with a car is one thing, living with it is another entirely. And yes, specialty-built cars shouldn't be lumped in with mass market offerings. A Corvette will never be able to compete with a Noble GT in certain areas, and vice versa. Z-tard - They SHOULD be complaining about a harsh ride and a plastic interior. Ride in a previous generation (e36) M3 and see what's possible to do with a suspension. Chevrolet has had a few years to perfect the suspension in this current generation Corvette, and it's still harsher than it NEEDS to be. The one I rode in seemed pretty nice, but it could have been improved a bit to soak up larger bumps with less impact. As far as the plastic issue is concerned, the issue is not that the interior has plastic in it. It's that it LOOKS like plastic. Sit down in a German car and be amazed by how good their plastic looks. Plastic in American cars (the Chrysler 300M springs to mind) looks pitiful in comparison. You can see mold marks, for crying out loud! How cheap is THAT? Same materials, different philosophies. Just my .02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Scott, As always, excellent points on all fronts. The C5 Corvette (Of which I own one and am a fan of) is down right dangerous in the hands of anyone not paying attention. The SNAP OVERSTEER under hard acceleration when the TC is turned off can be impossible to correct safely. The plastic like feel of the C4 was replaced with an interior closer to a late model camaro, which is a shame compared to what they were shooting for, which was probably cutting edge in 1996, but not close to 2004 standards. As for the harshness of the ride, well to use RCnSC's words, it is a sports car and no a "C"-dan, so I just live with it. But I wasn't about to live with the quirky handling issue... I bolted Z06 bits on the suspension and all is good now. But the car should have been VASTLY improved in this new iteration. From the reporting I have, the articles written in R&T and C&D, as well as AutoWeek, the are all in VAST contrast to that of those tools in England... Only time will Tell... Remember, Chevy DID make the GEO Metro... Which I've never forgiven! Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 :cough:Suzuki:/cough: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Yea, John, But it still had a damned GM stamp on it! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeder Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Quote from a local Jaguar mechanic: "Give a Brit a piece of steel and he'll do something stupid with it". I have no experiece with modern stuff from the British Isles, but a series of 60s BMC (before it was BLMC and whatever else it became) sports cars (which I dearly loved and enjoyed) introduced me to a new world of strange engineering, poor materials, and levels of unreliability previously unimagined. Made me a mechanic. My wife's beloved '87 XJ6 Jag continues that tradition. It's more like an engineering puzzle than a car. I think that well - made/well - engineered British cars are part of a recent phenomenon. That Top Gear boob made some funny points, even if some (most?) were pure BS. I've always been a fan of British humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phailure Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 I'd rather watch untranslated Best Motoring reviews. I <3 Best Motoring... I like the humor... but I guess its hard to 'get' the humor through translation. I'm lucky I can understand what they're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmmfc Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 I like the guys on that show, they are entertaining, and i have no doubts about their intelligence and ability to control an automobile. However, I feel as if I have an obligation to remind the critics to look at the latest points standings. According to the current American Le Mans series points standings, 3 out of the 5 top GTS teams in competition are american manufacturers (chevy=126, saleen=71, lambo=36, dodge=30, ferrari=22). ALSO at the latest race at MOSPORT the fastest Porsche is almost 5 seconds behind the fastest Corvette. I'm sorry, but I hate it when people blatantly bash cars that have taken so much effort and time to imagine, create, and build. ON top of everything, the corvetter costs significantly less than the cars in that test. I'm probably taking this too seriously, but I felt like rambling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Just out of curiosity, does the transverse fiberglass leaf on the C5 ever shatter like the old Volvo 960's used to? Those things were snapping like toothpicks, and they made razor sharp shards. Very hard to replace. We only had one guy at the Volvo dealer I worked at who did them, and he wasn't too happy about it when one rolled in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 John, No reports that I've found. When I was sorting out my issues with the vette (A classic example of what I was refering to can be seen in the link Auxilery posted of the Yellow C5 Convertible looping it), I found that if you wanted to get a super HARSH ride, you could swap the rear spring for one from the Z06, which is much stiffer. The front spring from the C5 & Z06 is the same partnumber. I've had the springs out of my car, which is a high milieage car, and it looks brand new with no evidence of ANY wear. The one COOL thing about the C5 setup is that you can alter the ride height by up to two inches by tightening or loosening the Beam tension screws. This does affect quality of ride, so you have to balance it. My car currently sits about an inch lower than stock. Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phailure Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 An inch lower than stock?? I guess you don't drive that thing on the streets. My dad's vette has enough problems driving on the streets at stock ride height Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Go over to http://www.corvetteforums.com and read about the process... There is a TON of ground clearance on that car. The only issues that car suffers at stock height is enterances into driveways and parking lots... However, TRUST ME, I drive it from my home to WASHINGTON DC at least 2-3 days per week. AND I drive my car HARD... I lowered it almost two inches and couldn't get my low clearance automotive lift or ANY of my jacks under the car to lift it up, so I had to raise it back up... However, to give you an indicator... from the top of the fender well opening to the concrete floor, My mearurements are 27 1/4 inch in the rear, and 26 5/8th inch up front. I use the axle center as my verticle reference. I've also recently had my vette airborne at well over 70mph... Yea, I D-R-I-V-E my vette and it hasn't been on a track yet. But September 10th that will change. Research research research... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280z-racer Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 ......and put any piece of crap from the UK on a pedistol. What's a "pedistol"? Actually Top Gear are pretty hard on any car they don't like' date=' including many from the UK. You'll often see a difference of opinion amongst the presenters too. What you don't seem to understand is that Top Gear has gradually become more and more of a [i'] comedy [/i] entertainment show based around Clarkson's personality than anything else. They concentrate on making the show look good, and producing nice bite-size chunks that can be networked out around the world ( netting the production company a nice profit ) and turned into DVD and Video sales. They also want you to discuss it; it gives them free advertising. It's working isn't it? What ( serious? ) motoring-related entertainment shows along the lines of Top Gear do you have in the USA? Does any USA-based show give serious critique to new cars, or are they too scared to offend their advertisers? I know there are serious motoring magazines in the US, but I have not heard of any TV. Oh, and do you have any other good cars besides the Corvette? I'm all ears........... car and driver TV horsepower TV (sometimes has serious car reviews) motortrend hell we have entire TV stations for stuff like this (Speed Channel) and there are others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phailure Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Go over to http://www.corvetteforums.com and read about the process... There is a TON of ground clearance on that car. The only issues that car suffers at stock height is enterances into driveways and parking lots... However' date=' TRUST ME, I drive it from my home to WASHINGTON DC at least 2-3 days per week. AND I drive my car HARD... I lowered it almost two inches and couldn't get my low clearance automotive lift or ANY of my jacks under the car to lift it up, so I had to raise it back up... However, to give you an indicator... from the top of the fender well opening to the concrete floor, My mearurements are 27 1/4 inch in the rear, and 26 5/8th inch up front. I use the axle center as my verticle reference. I've also recently had my vette airborne at well over 70mph... Yea, I D-R-I-V-E my vette and it hasn't been on a track yet. But September 10th that will change. Research research research... Mike [/quote'] Right, the plastic airdam on the vette has taken quite some damage although the body of the car is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Yea Phailure, But that rubber three piece spoiler set is only $70 for all 3 pieces, so tell your dad not to sweat it! I ditched the center section after it had a pivot mount break off, and have since ordered the BIG MOUTH center chin scoop for it for $120. It supposedly helps reduce temps of both the coolant and oil fluids. Between that and the AMSOIL fluid swap, I'm hoping NOT to see temps in the 290-300 degree range at Summit on September 10th... Some C5-Z06 owners have reported temps Above that! Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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