datsunlover Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Ok.. Due to some unforseen... circumstances, my planed V8 swap has been scrapped. Anyway, I am now down to two options as I see it. The first one, I think I'm ok for info; Build up my N/A L28 using 240 rods, a cam/valve job, su's and a 5 gear. Going to shoot for around 220hp.. OR... A 2.3 Turbo w/IC and 5 gear BWT5 from an 88 T-bird. Stock is 190hp, 240 lbs torque. Till I crank the boost.. heh heh.. I'm waiting to hear from someone on pricing for the L28 stuff I'll need.. basicaly I have a good block and head.. maybe. Really it'll come down to which one is cheaper to build/buy/whatevr in the end. (and yes I've looked into a turbo L28 and it would seam a little out of my price range right now.) FWIW, I can grab a whole T-bird for $700 that runs AWEsome, and has a fairly new clutch. Judging from the bird, my Z rad will be up to the task, engine/tranny mounts shouldn't be too hard to fab, and a custom drive shaft is all I can see I'd need right now.. The exhast ends up on the passenger side, but seeing as a lot of folks can run duals from their V8's, Im sure I can squeze somethin out of there in the Z. I would be getting a bigger/better exhast anyway either direction I go. I looks like I can set the thing back a fair bit, most likely NOT have to cut my hood, and I'm sure it's a lighter motor that the Z L6. I looked at it yesterday, and I was impressed..(well, with the drive line anyway!) Only reason the owner took it off the road is the frame.. Front passenger corner/floor/crosmember is dissapearing, and the rear is ugly too. Also has a nasty fuel leak out back (apears to be a return line, cause the engine puuuurs.) Cars been sitting for 6 months and BAM fired right up with a boost. Reved nice, and that turbo sound is somethin else.. I did a search last night, but couldn't find much on the 2.3 here... Would this be a first on Hybridz? If anyone has info on this engine, or expirience with it let me know! Wow.. that got long.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Is that T-Bird motor the same as the old SVT mustangs? (or whatever they were called) Some of those things are fast as hell... I would think that would be a very cool swap to do. Besides, turbo is just so much fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Yup, same motor and trans. SVO Stang made 205 horse.. guess they tweeked it a bit, AND the stang was lighter than the Bird.. heh.. 3400bls was LIGHT.. I've seen stuf on the net and from other sources about pushing 300+ horse using STOCK turbo/engine internals/injectors/ecu by just opening up exhast/intake and cranking boost! If I do it however, it'll remain fairly stock for the first while.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I'm planning on running that T-Coupe motor in my Opel GT. Look here for some info....http://www.turboford.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Cool site.. thanks tim. Do you have your 2.3 motor yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Magnum Rockwilder Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Here's some inspiration for you: http://www.eville140.com/video/1088.wmv'>http://www.eville140.com/video/1088.wmv It's video of a 1st gen RX7 with a Ford 2.3L running a 10.9 @ 126mph. It put down 422hp/440tq to the wheels. You can see the car and all the specs here: http://www.eville140.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillZ260 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I had originally planned on doing that swap as well, but I chickened out. Would be nice if you were closer, we could both work on them togetehr. There is a tcoupe rotting across the street Cheap! do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Holy stink Batman!! That little things GOES!! I don't think I'd pull off a 10sec 1/4, but maybe high 12's are doable.. either way, it would be silly fast for a mainly street driven car, and my Z would finaly GO like it LOOKS! I definatly could have fun with this, and I think it'd be a nice swap.. I just have to wait now.. need pricing for the Z engine/parts so I can make a decision on which way to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Magnum Rockwilder Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 IF you choose to go L28ET, you can do a nice setup for <$1000 that will put you into the 12's. I'm not a L28ET guy myself, so I can't go into details on the setup, but from what I hear that's the general price and performance. You could probably buy a whole ZXT for a few hundred bucks, do a straight drivetrain swap, and turn the boost up and run 12's. That would be the flat-out CHEAPEST way to do it. Keep your eye out for wrecked or otherwise POS ZXT's. My local junkyard sells entire engines with all accessories for $150, and I see turbo T-birds there occasionally. I've also seen a few for sale in the Bargain Trader and the el-cheapo section of the local paper for $250-$500 for the whole car. At the track I used to race at, there was a guy with a Mustang SVO with a 2.3L turbo that ran mid/high 9's. It was running a ridiculous amount of boost and had a 9" rear end, wheelie bars, roll cage, fibergalss panels, etc, but it was technically streetable. I believe he used a Ranger 2.3L block because he said it was stronger under extreme boost. I have an article in Hot Rod or Car Craft that details a 2.3L buildup. There's a guy in the article with a Pinto with around 500hp and a huge shot of nitrous on top of it. If you ever do decide to do the swap, let me know and I'll dig up some good sources for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I say do the 2.3. The L28 is going to be relatively expensive and I think you'll have a hard time getting that much hp out of it. The 2.3 should be a relatively easy swap, makes the whole car lighter, and has more power potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Matt: A friend of mine just picked up a 2.8(?) supercharged engine and tranny from a '90 T Bird for his TR7. Let me know if you need measurements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Magnum Rockwilder Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 The engine in a 89-93 T-Bird Supercoupe is a supercharged 3.8L V6... totally different from the 83-88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe's turbocharged 2.3L I-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 Yah, and prone to head gasket/head cracking issues. Also not very well suported by aftermatket from what I hear.. And If I could find a zxt cheep, it'd be the easiest.. but in these parts, they are all gone, so definatly would NOT be cheep.. A guy in Toronto (1.5 hours from me) has one, but he wants $1000 for the BLOCK.. another 4-500 for the harness/ecu and another 5-600 for the trans.. So I figure for $700, a whole car is a good deal, even if I have to fab some stuff for mounts/drive staft/ect. If I don't hear from some ppl soon, I may just ditch the Z engine plan entirly and pick up that TBird.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg55_99 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Add 16V please..... http://www.merkurtech.com/merkurtech/techarticles/item045.php Greg Junkyard Veteran for TRUTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Add 16V please..... http://www.merkurtech.com/merkurtech/techarticles/item045.php Greg Junkyard Veteran for TRUTH! Gregg, That is F'in cool as hell!!!! WOW!! thanks for the link!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 Yah, just ran across that yesterday as a mater of fact.. A bit of work involved to make it work, but WOW there's silly power that's posible with JUNKYARD parts!! If I do this swap though, I'd just used it in stock T-bird form for a while.. drive for a year or so, then do the 16V conversion/bigger turbo+FMIC later down the road... I don't want too much 'project creep' or 'while Im at it' to happen.. there's enough work needed on the REST of my car anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWOT Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I had a 86 Mustang SVO myself so let me clarify a few things. The stock bottom end is ridiculously overbuilt. You can push 340hp no problems at all. I personally ran 22psi on mine on pump 100 for monthes, no problems at all except for burning tires. However, there are considerable limiting factors The most obvious being the SOHC head. Yeah, you can port the shit out of it and put in a huge cam to get high end power, but then it will unstreetable. A much better alternative would be to use the new 2.3L Duratec block. There is already a turbo version in the works http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=mazdaSpeed6 274hp/280ftlbs stock this is maintaing over 24mpg as well. It weighs alot less then the old iron Lima casting and it's DOHC as well, which provides a much better torque curve. For those who have referred to the 16v volvo head swap, it is NOT viable for 90% of people, for several reasons. 1. The coolant and oil passages do NOT line up, you must block them and tap for external sources. 2. The bore spacing is not the same, so quench area will always be inferior to native design DOHC. 3. Need all custom parts. It's not like the manifolds and timing gear mate with the stock stuff either, you need an entire custom setup, for the cost of the actual conversion plus the cost of the block and other parts, you could build a better motor, cheaper. The only thing the 16v volvo head for is shits and grins basically. It's a last chance for an upgrade on the old lima block if you're stuck with it like in the SVO, Merkur, or T-Bird, but if you have options, it's not nearly the best. Go with the new Duratec, you will be far happier in the long run with newer tech, not to mention there are current production parts for it and the aftermarket is growing, not receding like it is for the outdated Lima All that said, the 2.3lima will HAUL ASS! But if you want more then about 280whp is gets very expensive and rapidly less fun to drive on the street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Well, it's desicion time now... Got all the info together and started adding it up. Grand total is gona be somewhere around $1700 to; rebuild my L28 w/mild cam, head work, ect and get a 5 gear/clutch. This is basicaly a stocker too, so 220Hp is probly not attainable with this setup. (more $$$ required) Now.. To buy the whole T-bird, rent a trailer and drag it home comes in UNDER $1000. I'll have to fab mounts, driveshaft, and figure out the FI wiring, as well as install a higher presure fuel pump. (running a 4 psi carb pump right now) And a custom exhast is a given (this is one of those "need it either way" things) BUT; In the end, it looks like the turbo 2.3 swap will be cheaper, AND have more power. Also, it seams more power is not hard to squeze out by cranking boost a bit, and there is still a pretty good wealth of knowlege and aftermarket parts out there for these engines.. Now I just have to decide weather or not to "bastardise" a Z by sticking in a Ford motor.. (some of my friends are giving me flack for even considering this!) hmmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Go for it dude, although I think you'll find it hard to beat the estimated $1700 for the L28 rebuild. If you decide to do the 2.3L swap look into using a mega-squirt setup instead of the Ford computer. I've heard the Ford computer is not very good so a mega-squirt might make for a better setup. There is an 86 SVO in the town I live that's for sale. I test drove it and have been arguing with myself about buying it ever since. The one thing I really didn't like was the rough idle, which after doing some research I've found is very common. Apparently it's due to the marginal control computer. Anyway the only other aspect of the car I had problems with was the Jekyl and Hyde personality. Off boost it was a typical low compression 4-banger, on boost it felt more like a strong V8 from that era. Lots of fun to drive and handled very well. Anyway the guy has tried to sell it 3 times now and got little to no interest. I test drove it back in August and it's still at the guy's house. He was asking $2,000 for it. It has 114,000 miles, is straight with the typical fading paint from the 80s, the tires are at the end of their life and the interior was in fair shape. So what do you guys think, should I snag it or pass?? Problem is it would mean a slow down on the Z project due to re-directed funds. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I was gonna do the 2.3 swap, the engine will sit behind the rack but the motor mounts are right where the steering shaft goes, you could use a u-joint in the steering shaft (I didn't like that idea) or you can use an engine plate for solid mounts, I scrapped the project, here are a coupla pic's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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