Roll cage street legal in CA???

[Gollum]

Ideal padding would be a gradient padding that is stiffer as you get closer to the bar. But I don't know of anything like that. So maybe go with the stuff tube80z mentioned and then wrap that in the noodle stuff? Just an idea.

[Pop N Wood]

I've seen sheet metal bend around sombody's head. Never seen a roll bar pipe bend for somebody's head.

 

I simply can't imagine what someones head would look like with the sheet metal running over the top of a Z windshield wrapped around it. Are you saying they walked out of the car and sat down for a beer?

 

But really the problem isn't the material that your head is hitting, it's how much space is encroached upon by the design of the rollbar..

 

This is exactly the point I am trying to make.

 

So your much more likely to hit your head at all with a roll bar than without.

 

Really? How much more likely? 10%? 20% Have any numbers?

 

 

Have you noticed how tall cars are these days? Ever wonder why? Might have something to do with hitting your head in the case of an accident...

 

Yes I have noticed. But unfortunately I don't drive those, I drive a Z.

 

No one is arguing that hitting your head in an accident is a bad thing. At least, I don't that is what your sheet metal comment is claiming. What I do take exception to are the ideas that putting a cage in a street car somehow makes the vehicle a death machine to an unhelmeted driver. I also simply do not believe that a little bit of padding is going to make much difference one way or the other in a serious wreck. In less serious wrecks it will undoubtably make some difference, but I would love to see someone produce hard numbers as to how much. And stories that begin with "my brother's cousin's best friend knew this guy who..." don't cary much weight.

 

Naw, padding is so you don't bruise your head turning around to get something out of the back seat. Anyone who thinks it is for more than that is seriously deluding themselves.

[Phantom]

Since I am tall and have a roll bar in my car I can confirm that you are 100% more likely to hit steel with your head if rear ended than without a roll bar. It is about 3" behind my head and if I were to get hit hard from behind my head would be snapped back into the roll bar. If it wasn't there I would just have a severe case of whiplash instead of that AND a serious concussion. Hits from other directions can be argued but not one from the rear - unless you are under about 5'10".

[tube80z]

Really? How much more likely? 10%? 20% Have any numbers?

 

I can only give you a few data points from myself. I was rear ended once in a Z with stock seats and belts. I had a scrape on my forhead that was from the plastic piece the covers the rear hatch hinges.

 

And from racing I routinely have marks on my helmet from riding in Zs with cages. It's really the roof bars that I'd have the most concern with. As long as you use a high backed seat and proper belts that make sure you can't get back into the hoop and if you could either do away with the roof bars or integrate them into the existing sheetmetal you probably wouldn't have an issue.

 

I do think there's a lot that can be done to help with side impact. I'd worry more about that on the street than anything else.

 

Cary

[JMortensen]

I simply can't imagine what someones head would look like with the sheet metal running over the top of a Z windshield wrapped around it. Are you saying they walked out of the car and sat down for a beer?

I was a kid, we were playing football and my friend put a very large dent in a car with his head. It wasn't in a Z, but the point was if he had done a header into a roll bar pipe instead he'd probably be dead.

Really? How much more likely? 10%? 20% Have any numbers?

No, do you? All I can say is I have seen stars after smacking my head INSIDE A HELMET on the door frame at an autox. So clearly someone 6' tall can smack the side of the car HARD without any additional encroachment. I can only imagine that if I had a roll bar in there and were not wearing a helmet the damage to my head would have been much worse. If that's not good enough for you then fine. It's your head, do whatever you want with it. I'm just trying to relate my experience.

No one is arguing that hitting your head in an accident is a bad thing. At least, I don't that is what your sheet metal comment is claiming. What I do take exception to are the ideas that putting a cage in a street car somehow makes the vehicle a death machine to an unhelmeted driver. I also simply do not believe that a little bit of padding is going to make much difference one way or the other in a serious wreck. In less serious wrecks it will undoubtably make some difference, but I would love to see someone produce hard numbers as to how much. And stories that begin with "my brother's cousin's best friend knew this guy who..." don't cary much weight.

I don't believe the padding is going to do very much either. So we're in agreement there. So what I'm saying is don't put a roll cage in your car if you don't drive with a helmet. Roll bar behind the seat is OK as long as the seat back keeps your head from contacting the hoop.

[johnc]

I have some anecdotal evidence from the West Coast Z Nationals autocross and the Z Car Nationals at WSIR last year. At both events I acted as an instructor and rode/drove a number of 240Zs with roll bars, roll cages, and neither. The only cars that I banged my helmet against something while driving and/or riding were the cars with a roll cage. There was one car that I was riding in that didn't have a cage or bar and I did bang my head against the upper roof sheet metal. The driver did something "unusual" and I wasn't prepared for it.

 

One item to consider is seating position. If the stock seats are used or race seats are installed with sliders then the seating position is fairly high. If race seats are insalled without slider it lowers the seating position by at least an inch so there will be more clearance for the noggin.