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Stupid rust. Frame rail welding advice?


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Cut out cancer today, most of the floor board frame rail. I cleaned up today (no pics) and evened out the surface. I got some rectangular tubing, 4 foot cuts for each side, in 3"x1"x48. I picked up two sets, 16 ga and 1/8" thick. I was originally planning on welding in 1/8 in, but I have a feeling it may be a bit too much for the stock floorpans with no reinforcement on top. Is there any reason I should use something that thick?

 

I've decided to use the 16ga units. Should I weld in a flat sheet of 16ga steel to spread out the surface pressure area, or just weld them in directly? Did you guys coat the rails on the inside with any sort of rust protector like POR15? Do I drill out drain holes in case of moisture in the new units as well?

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I wouldn't paint them then try to weld, because you want the welding surface clean. I would weld them on, drill a hole or two, and use one of these http://www.eastwood.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=10966&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=rust+gun to spray your POR15 or whatever inside the rail AFTER you weld. That's my plan on a lot of my rusty areas.

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I used the 3"x1"x1/8" ones but I replaced my floor pans with 16 gauge sheet metal at the same time. I would think the 16 gauge ones would work just fine but while you're at it why don't you turn them into subframe connectors. Four feet of material won't be enough but it wouldn't be much more work and then you wouldn't have to worry about transfering all of the load to the floor pans.

 

This is what mine looked like when completed.

subframes.jpg

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For what it's worth' date=' I believe Ernie "RacerX" said that there is a weldable primer, just in case you want to hit the bare metal with [i']something[/i] while you're working on it.

 

!M!

Since Ernie lives 20 miles from the shop my car's at, maybe I can con him into doing something. hahahhah :)

 

UPZ: thanks, i'll check it out!

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Hi Alex - thanks for the wake up email!

 

18 gage is a bit thin for this use. 1/8" is probably a better choice of the two. I'd go with the 1/8" of the two you have. Steel gage thickness as reported by manufacturers vary alot. Here's a chart I found, although I've seen 18 gage reported at .0451" versus the .0478" I see on this chart. I'd go with something like 12 gage at least if I had a choice.

http://www.evergreen.edu/biophysics/technotes/fabric/sheet_metal.htm

 

All the weld through coatings I've used burn off around the weld area and I'd think rust later. Zinc phospate coatings like what POR-15's metal prep and Eastwood's Oxi-Solv leave behind is good, but usually thin. If you have the car on a rotisserie, then spraying POR-15 (LOTS) into the closed cavity through holes and then spinning her around on the spit may distrubute the paint well. :)

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For what it's worth I wouldn't use 1/8" if it were my car. Overkill! 14ga would be a big improvement over stock, if you want to err on the side of overkill 12ga would be good. Save the weight and put it towards a good roll cage, but better return in stiffness vs. weight gain than sub frame connectors with increased thickness.

 

Given the choice between 1/8 and 16ga I'd probably choose the 16ga honestly. I'm all for a rigid chassis, I just think the weight is better gained elsewhere.

 

If your floorpans are also 16ga just weld 1" of every 2" and seal it super well. Use a weld through like these guys recommend, and try to spray inside the frame rail as well. Warning: Mild steel is usually coated with a wax, you'll need to clean that off AND rough the surface up if you want POR-15 to stick to it well. Make sure there is no way for moisture to get between layers of metal and sit there when you are done. (use seam sealer, undercoating, paint, or a combination to ensure this doesn't happen)

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Good point, John. I was really referring to using 16 gage (not 18 like I wrote) instead of 1/8" for the tubing wall thickness. The tiny amount of weight increase you're talking about in an area where the Z is not very stiff seems a minor concern. When these cars rust, the front and rear ends of the inner and outer rocker boxes get mushy, and the car gets more flexible. That's why I added the floor board frame rails, and tied them in well front and rear - to provide a replacement path for bending and torsional loads on the chassis.

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  • 8 months later...

BUMPING!

My frame rail is ok but my floorboards are rusted through, i didnt stop to look as I started cutting but the rail that runs through the floor is also rusted, my question NOW is..

as I have allready cut the hell out of the floor as I planned to remove it(driverside) Should I just cut the floorboard framerail out, and make subframe connectors like the pictures posted? what will happen if I cut the floor out, and leave it overnight till the metal supply shop opens?

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everything is out of the car, it sits on 3 wheels and a jackstand at the moment, One more Q while I have you lurking John, Is what about the middle rail for the seat? or could I cut it out as well(rusted)..

 

I cant think of what its called, what is the rectangular tubing with circles cut out?

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I just made mine, the floors out so I can take any pic you want.. will be with my camera phone though..

what I did was go straight back from the front rail to where the pan rises, then went up at 45* then straight across to the rear frame..

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somthing like that lol.. forget the solid lines, spaces didnt hold out..

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