HELP! Body shop did a horrible job!

[Guest PBooty]

ok.. here's a recap

 

I took my 1977 280z into the body shop to get new paint, msa body kit install, new weather strip, and headlight covers installed.

 

I went to go look at my car today because the car was supposedly 80% done. When I got there I was impressed by the work AT FIRST. The paint job was nice, but the body work was horrible when u got up close.

 

The body shop painted everything without making the body kit fit perfectly first. There are huge gaps between the bumper and the body along the sides and back, and along the back the edge of the bumper where it meets up with the body there are really bad cuts that do not follow the body lines at all. Same goes for the front bumper.

 

The body shop guy didn't want to bondo the body kit to the car because it would be a bitch to repair. I understand this, but the gaps between the kit and the car are horrible. I suggested that he use body filler on the body kit to fill in the gaps; to make the kit closer to the car. He said that he really didn't want to use bondo on the car.

 

Here's my first question. I know that using bondo to repair huge dents is a no no, but from what i've seen on all the car restoration shows is that they cover the entire car in body filler, sand, then paint. Am I wrong about this? Is bondo/body filler always a no no? Can bondo be used to extend the horribly cut body kit edges to meet up with the car?

 

Another thing is when he installed the headlight covers, he wasn't able to seal them completely. So everytime it rains, or when I was the car, water gets into the "sugar scoop" and water beads up on the inside of the glass. I think he drilled the holes in the wrong spots, so the covers aren't perfectly placed.

 

He blames the poor allignment of the bodykit and headlight covers on the fact that they are aftermarket, and aftermarket quality is poor compared to oem. I understand this, but I assumed body shops can manipulate things and make them fit; within reason.

 

Has anyone else had problems with body kit fitment and headlight covers? It IS possible to make things fit correctly right? I know that the msa body kit install is a pretty common thing among Z owners, and I refuse to think that car enthusiasts settle for this type of fitment.

 

I wish i brought a camera.. but here's my solidworks depiction..the left is how i would like it to fit..the right is how it currently is ;slightly exagerated but u get the idea...

 

 

*edit..for clerity...this is an arial illustration (top down view) red is the car body.. grey is the bumper..

[Guest Magnum Rockwilder]

If you aren't satisfied with the job that you paid them to do, tell them you're hiring an attorney and they can either avoid the legal mess by making things right, or they can get sued for doing shitty work.

 

You have no reason to pay for junk like that. You should have never accepted the car to begin with.

[Guest PBooty]

I didn't accept the car... he's going to try to fix it. I think he's trying to avoid excessive body work, cuz that would require repainting. Imma see how it turns out. I have no intention of accepting it until im satisfied, and I'm a picky bitch

[blueovalz]

Headlight covers were discussed on a previous string not long ago, and the consensus was the fit is poor, and even with the rubber gasket around the Lexan, a gap or two will exist around the edges of the cover.

 

Bondo is not a bad thing. It's fine over broad areas in thin layers, but you don't want to use it in lieu of poor bodywork, or as a filler for deep imperfections or damage that was not hammered out correctly.

 

I can't address the bodywork (especially because I lack familiarity with the MSA kit). Your drawing left me wondering what you were trying to illustrate.

[Guest PBooty]

 

I can't address the bodywork (especially because I lack familiarity with the MSA kit). Your drawing left me wondering what you were trying to illustrate.

 

 

sorry...i knew i shoulda added labels O_o

[spotfitz]

A friend of mine put MSA's body kit on his '78 and had the same problem. The kit didn't fit right and he had to "adjust it". He had to do some trimming and some cutting, but his turned out good with some patience, which I know from previous experience, body shops can't/won't afford to have. I would think with a 2 part epoxy or something like it the gaps could be filled and smoothed out to look presentable. One could even use fiberglass and mat to extend the kit to the body for a smooth fit. Whether they want to do it is beside the point. It needs to be made right. Hope it works out.

[240Z2NV]

Most of those body kits do NOT fit properly, and require one thing to make them right....time (in terms of the install). Clearly, the bodyshop that you chose doesn't want to spend the time required to send out a correct finished product.

Rather than threatening legal action to get satisfaction, do you have a Bureau of Automotive Repairs in your state? In CA, it is a VERY effective means to get work done properly because it goes into their shop's record. Court is fine for getting a judgement. Collecting on that judgement is an entirely different story.....the end result would likely be that you would get your car back, and not pay him the balance. But, when you take it to another shop to 'fix it', you will also pay a premium for them to correct bad work.

I'd suggest trying to get the shop to finish the job correctly by way of conveying how it is a 'rolling billboard' for his shop and the advertising is cheap for him (to do the job right). Or, be subtle in suggesting how many people tell their friends about bad service, who then tell their friends, and then their friends....which surely will result in lost business, is it worth it to him to do the job poorly....?

 

edit: OOPS, just realized that you are in CA! Use the BAR out of Sacramento, request a complaint form and show it to the shop (not filled out)...

[SHO-Z]

I installed the MSA kit on my 260 and the fit on the back was terrible from MSA. I had to grind some areas and had 3/8" gaps on others. I found that by grinding the corners and setting the bumper right under the tail light recess I had the tightest fit. I use fiberglass on the underside to fill the large gaps and fiber filled on the smaller gaps. This I bondoed in. Since then I was doing some other body work and from input on this web site was informed about the new flexible body fillers. I would use this instead of bondo. My side skirts were so twisted I had to install counter sunk screws in them to get the twist out to close the gaps. But after hrs of work they look ok now. On this project it might be easier to do the molding in yourself and have the paint shop do the final prep. All you really need is and electric DA sander and flat sander to do most of the work for tools.

 

These are not bolt on parts.

 

[280Zone]

These kits and covers are far from direct bolt ons. Not to mention these car are 30 years old. You never know if you are matching to original or someone else's body work. To get things to fit right takes time, to a shop owner time is money. Keep after them to get it right, if that is what you agreed to up front and are paying for.

[johnc]

Another thing to remember is that these cars a 30+ years old and almost every one has been in at least one wreck. Sometimes the repairs made years ago were not done correctly and now the panels are off. That makes installing a body kit even more difficult because the kit might be off a bit and the panel itself is off too.

[spotfitz]

I had the situation JohnC just mentioned. The 3 piece spoiler fit good before the repairs were done to my right rear quarter panel. After the paint job it was evident that the repairs done effected the fit and there was now a gap. Why these pieces weren't test fit to the panel, I don't know. Since the paint job was already done there was no turning back. I decided, with lack of a better decision, to live with it. Funny thing was the spoiler pieces still lined up as if there was no change.

[Mikelly]

Yup, and molds change over time and use, as do parts when they are made and then stored... The MSA flares on the white Zcar I had and sold John (JT1) had a fit difference of almost an INCH from side to side, even though they were both fitted at the same spot on the body line...

 

Fiberglass is tough to make, and even tougher to make properly and store!

Mike

[Vintage-TechZ]

Yup' date=' and molds change over time and use, as do parts when they are made and then stored... The MSA flares on the white Zcar I had and sold John (JT1) had a fit difference of almost an INCH from side to side, even though they were both fitted at the same spot on the body line...

 

Fiberglass is tough to make, and even tougher to make properly and store!

Mike[/quote']

 

You are SO right Mike, but that is because 99% of all manufactures are using Poylester and Vinylester resins to build their molds and parts with instead of the more stable and expensive Epoxy resin . I ONLY build with Epoxy due to its stable non-warping, non-degrading state. It does cost a great deal more up front,but the end results are obvious and lasting.

 

As far as the kit fitments on the MSA parts,I've got one of the full kits here and took a good look at it.Its a standard thats common.It has NO "face to body flange" . Meaning there isn't a flange that contacts the metal of the car,only a stabbing unfinished edge of glass rubbing the paint on the car !

(EDIT): however,the other MSA kit here, does have an ill fitting partial flange ! It STILL would require modification as stated above to make right !

 

Here's a way to get a perfect fit for you guys (providing your shop of choice or YOU,are willing to do it).

..........With bumpers off......cut a strip of wax paper long enough to wrap clear across the area where the part will make contact to the body. Tape this in place.Place the part into its final resting place for fitment and use a permanaent marker to give the top outline onto the wax paper.Remove the part. Now use some fiberglass strips wetted out with resin, and place them ON the line (wax paper line) going just about a quarter of an inch over the line and the ends of where the part ends.Let the first layer GEL,then repeat with more strips. Three builds with cloth and mat should suffice for this step.

 

NOW....once the strips of glass has dried,(no longer tacky) Take a 36 grit sander and somewhat smooth out the texture of the glass so there are NO high spots.

 

Reposition your body part...and attatch your newly made flange to your body part(with more glass mat/cloth and resin )that now has a " Body matched" fitment ! Of course all finishing stages are neccasary before final paint.

 

Now,I gotta get back to work !.................Vinny

[blueovalz]

Good post Vinny! I would like to inject a tip into the above idea, of which is an excellent idea of provide a "fitted" part (and one I've used many times). My experience with this lends me to use 2" masking tape applied carefully over the body (with minimal overlap between strips of tape) that you want covered in glass. Fiberglass does not bond well with masking tape and will provide an almost perfect match, especially in areas where compount curves or ridges exist. I have used was paper, as well as other "film" mediums and found that they sometimes will not follow changes in the body's shape (unless the part is very flat or has a single dimension curve).

[DeusEx]

So has everyone who has ordered an MSA kit had these troubles with Gaps?

[Guest PBooty]

thanks for all the input guys...

 

one thing though.. the body shop guy suggested that it wouldn't be a good idea to bondo the kit to the body. I would look nicer, but having a one piece body would prove to be costly if repairs were necessary.

 

I suggested that he used body filler to extend that matting edge of the bumpers to eliminate the gaps. This way the bumper and the body would remain separated. Is my suggestion applicable? Will it work?

[Vintage-TechZ]

My suggestion is to NEVER graft/bond full body kits to a unibody car. Even welding steel to steel for a "smoothy" look can cost you a second ,third or even bi-annual paint job unless the the car never leaves a climate controlled level floor !

In fact, one of my best friends is suffering the fate of this as we speak,and opted to simply sell the car at a loss in order to avoid the expense of redo/repair. And he's admitted to me he feels like a FOOL for not listening to me. The sad fact is it WAS a beautiful Z ! Cracking all to hell now.

 

Go back and re-read my instructions again for the body kit parts FLANGES ! It describes quickly how to eliminate your gaps and have a PRO fit ...EVERYWHERE on your fiberglass parts ! No permanent BONDING other than your choice of hidden fasteners (totally removable/repaintable ).

 

Always sweat the BODYWORK and epoxy primer ! MAke those perfect and the painter will follow ! If he's worth his SALT .

 

But alas......this IS why I do alll of the work on my Z's myself. No guessing about others capability and BS ability.

 

Learning curves burn on both ends...choose.

Vinny

[Guest PBooty]

Vinny...

could you please send me some pics of the flanges, or the bumper in general. I want to show the body shop guy that IT COULD BE DONE.

 

I think the body shop guy IS capable (to some extent). I saw a Packard in the back of his shop being restored.

 

If anyone else has a MSA body kit "decently" installed..please send me some close up pics of the mateing points..

 

thanks to everyone for all the input soo far

[Hugh]

[img']http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/8660back_2_-med.jpg[/img]

 

I always like the look of a molded in body kit after the car is initially painted, but - I've seen far too many cars with kits molded in that crack along the molding and blow paint/filler/bondo/fiberglass/whatever it is out.

 

For this reason, I prefer not to mold fiberglass to metal. I'm sure it can be done right, but I've seen so many done wrong, you know?

[Jason Jarvis]

 

 

Very nice, that's quite similar visibly to what I am working on, I'll have to check out your album. The first time I read this post the pic didn't show up, so I just saw it for the first time....

 

Jason