Shisho Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I own a 1990 240sx. On it I have every single brace sold in Japan. I wanted the car to be as stiff as possible without a rollcage for drifting. I'm getting out of the drifting thing since some drunk driver smashed my car while it was parked out on the street. My question being, is there anyone that sells front or rear ladder bars, floor support bars, under front fender bars, rear cross member bars, B-pillar support bars, trunk support bars or strut tower to firewall braces for a 1970-1973 240Z? The best I have found imo so far are triangulated front and rear upper strut braces from Cusco Japan. Sorry for my newbie questions. Thank you in advance for any information you may provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 This is a good place to start http://www.pdkfabrication.bravepages.com/ There are others. Try the search function on this site. Quite a few members have posted good home brewed solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 My question being, is there anyone that sells front or rear ladder bars, floor support bars, under front fender bars, rear cross member bars, B-pillar support bars, trunk support bars or strut tower to firewall braces for a 1970-1973 240Z? Spent a lot of time searching this site. A number of things you mention above are not necessary for the S30 chassis and most likely they are not needed for the S13 either. Just because someone makes and sells something doesn't mean it provides any benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Battle Pope Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 lol That's what I was thinking. Just put strut tower bars, subframe connectors and a 6-point rollbar in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Spent a lot of time searching this site. A number of things you mention above are not necessary for the S30 chassis and most likely they are not needed for the S13 either. Just because someone makes and sells something doesn't mean it provides any benefit. John, you must have more patience then me. I started to look and came across this site http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/june04/240sx/ and looked at the CUSCO roll cage, starting laughing and well, gave up. I have no clue what a floor bar is or would do but I'm sorta curious. I do think the Z can stand to have some triangulation under the engine compartment and hooked it to the TC boxes. We'll see if it makes any difference as that's what I'm doing this weekend. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I think somebody linked to a "floor bar" the other day. It was a bar that attached to the seat belt bolt holes behind the front seats, and it had a bend to go up and over the trans tunnel. I'm not kidding. Just found the other thread... http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=103667 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I think somebody linked to a "floor bar" the other day. It was a bar that attached to the seat belt bolt holes behind the front seats, and it had a bend to go up and over the trans tunnel. I'm not kidding.] Okay, Jon you need to send me money for the coke I just spewed on my PC Sold by JC Whiteney no less. That's so cool. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Sorry about the computer there Cary... Kinda makes me want to design and manufacture an anodized alumium cupholder to ashtray brace or a polished door escutcheon to window crank support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Kinda makes me want to design and manufacture an anodized alumium cupholder to ashtray brace or a polished door escutcheon to window crank support. If you give it a catchy asian name, like do-luck X bar and tell the kids it will make them super number 1 drifter then you'll retire soon. I really need to get back to work but I just found some drifting forums talking about this stuff and I'm sorta hooked. I can't help myself .... People really do buy this crap. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I do think the Z can stand to have some triangulation under the engine compartment and hooked it to the TC boxes. We'll see if it makes any difference as that's what I'm doing this weekend. If you solidly mount the engine and transmission you effectively triangulate the crossmember back to the transmission mount and it helps a lot with stopping the forward part of the car from hinging up. You must make good mounts and reinforce the tunnel around the trans mount. Adding some triangulation from the strut towers to the center of the fire wall is the biggest strength improvement you can do for the front of the car. When we did some FEA on my 1970 we found that the TC rod mounts really only take fore/aft loadings. A cross brace in that area wouldn't hurt but it won't help much if the engine and trans are solidly mounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 John, you must have more patience then me. I started to look and came across this site http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/june04/240sx/ and looked at the CUSCO roll cage, starting laughing and well, gave up. A S13 showed up at our local autocross with that exact cage. Unfortunately I was in charge of tech and I had to fail the car specifically because of the cage. I felt bad but it is not safe and doesn't meet SCCA (or NASA, TCRA, OT, VARA, HSR, NHRA, etc.) safety standards. I wish people would research the US racing sanctioning body rules before going out and purchasing a lot of this JDM stuff. It might be OK for drift, but its not OK for most road racing and autocross events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Adding some triangulation from the strut towers to the center of the fire wall is the biggest strength improvement you can do for the front of the car. In the "how to hotrod..." book the Sharp team took this a step further, ran it through the wiper box and connected it to the front cross bar of the roll cage. When we did some FEA on my 1970 we found that the TC rod mounts really only take fore/aft loadings. A cross brace in that area wouldn't hurt but it won't help much if the engine and trans are solidly mounted. A saw a few vintage CP cars with 1" sq. .083 tubing joined from the TC mount to the front corner of the rocker panel in the wheel well area and I did the same on mine. I honestly don't know if it helps but one racer said it made a big difference on his Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 A saw a few vintage CP cars with 1" sq. .083 tubing joined from the TC mount to the front corner of the rocker panel in the wheel well area and I did the same on mine. I honestly don't know if it helps but one racer said it made a big difference on his Z. It could. If you can't solidly mount the engine that kind of bracing will help strengthen the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Someone here mentioned a bar joining the two tension rod chassis points a while ago, said it helped braking stability. So I did one for mine, car is nice and stable under high speed braking even over undulations. A good half cage certainly helps the rear end. Triangular bars which fit on to the door hinge bolts one end and then go forward, to the strut tops I think, seem popular. Anyone tried them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shisho Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Wow! That's alot of sources I need to check. Thank you everyone for your input. The reason why I put on every brace I could find was due to the extreme shifting of the chassis from high speed drifting i.e. in excess of 160kmh. My last 240 fastback actually had 3 tears in the firewall, and my chassis was tweaked in 5 directions front to back. I never crashed it and later sold it to a kid who absolutly destroyed. What a sad fate for that car. In my only 5 years of drifting I managed to warp the frame of a car origially owned by a librarian in 8 months. I don't want it to happen to an over 30 year old car. Well. Thanks again everyone for the links. I've got some searcing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 johnc are you saying to solidly mount the engine so it will be an effective brace between the front crossmember and the tranny tunnel? I remember seeing a motorcycle that did not have a complete frame, but instead the front suspension and rear suspension bolted to various points on the engine... same concept? -Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 johnc are you saying to solidly mount the engine so it will be an effective brace between the front crossmember and the tranny tunnel? Yup, but its a RACE ONLY modification. Do not do it on a street car and don't do it to your race car unless you are willing to spend a lot of time checking nuts and bolts. If you don't, things like this can happen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I bet that caused some interesting handling issues. Is there a good reason why the crossmember shouldn't just be welded in? I mean if you stitch welded the thing you could cut it out fairly easily... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I bet that caused some interesting handling issues. Is there a good reason why the crossmember shouldn't just be welded in? I mean if you stitch welded the thing you could cut it out fairly easily... Actually, it didn't! I discovered the missing bolts only after jacking the car up to check for loose nuts and bolts AFTER Bryan Lampe laid down some 1:55s at Buttonwillow: http://www.nsxfiles.com/otc_2004_day5.htm 2:20 p.m. - Lampe/Coffey run a blazing 1:55-1:55-1:55, beating Dearing, who is out of tire. It appears that the Rusty Old Datsun is totally dialed in. We win the OTC, as Dearing had to beat us, Haney, and the Rusty Old Datsun Lampe/Coffey team, with us placing 4th or worse, in order for the Viper to win Welding the crossmember in place wouldn't be a bad idea, although it will make front suspension R&R a bit more difficult. And I would probably do bolts and stitch welds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Yup, but its a RACE ONLY modification. Do not do it on a street car and don't do it to your race car unless you are willing to spend a lot of time checking nuts and bolts. My engine and tranny are solidly mounted and I spend a lot of time retorquing bolts and using a lot of the green loctite. Safetywire would be a good idea too. Part of the prep for every event is my nut check. Every engine, suspension, brake, and steering bolt must be inspected and torqued to the correct value. But doing this has probably saved me from having some major issues. From time to time I have found parts that were about to fail. I don't think it can be stressed enough that is you race these cars hard you need to spend time on proper prep. A friend had all the bolts loose on the crossmember of his 510. We didn't notice it until we jacked the car up. Odlly enough it seemed to make little difference when we tightened them all back up. Still I wouldn't recommend trying this at home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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