Guest flash Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Pro's & Con's I recently purchased a 4 core aluminum radiator for a project Some people say good, others say bad. I need input on using this for an L28 set up Thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistex Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 on some applications a thinner radiator i have noticed cools better .. just one of those things. seems like people have luck with them .. my buddy just picked up one for his v8 swap! good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I'm assuming you mean a 4-row core? The more 'rows' a core has the deeper the radiator and the more heat it can transfer -thus the reason Datsun went form a 2-row to a 3-row from the L24 to the L28 - and thus the reason my L28 radiator was recored to a 4-row to run with my LS1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 According to JTR, a getting air through a 4-row radiator core is difficult due to aerodynamic restriction. They also claim that once the cooling air has gone past the first row, the air is heated up so that it cannot draw as much heat from the next row, and so on. They sell a single row radiator that has a tube width of 1.25" that they claim is the best for cooling a Z. Not sure of the validity of their claims, but here's a link to their info. http://www.jagsthatrun.com/V8-chapters/V8-DatsunZ-Cooling-System.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Mount the radiator on rubber with no aluminum to steel contact. Use a Taurus electric fan. Here is a picture of my Tomahawk project's Griffin aluminum radiator mounted io a steel frame I constructed with both upper and lower core sections cushioned by 1/2 inch thick rubber strips. A very solid mount with no metal to metal contact and hopefully less vibration which is the leading cause of aluminum radiator failure http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/larryjohnson97438/detail?.dir=/392a&.dnm=e0eb.jpg&.src=ph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasz Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Here Comes Trouble, Can you tell me more about your rubber mounts please? I need to do this same kind of mounting but do not know where to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 It's all a function of the radiator design. Heat transfer is a pure function of time of exposure and contact surface area. A bunch of small tubes will get you more area than a few small tubes - do the math. The longer the air is in contact with the radiator the cooler the water will become. It's all about the design "appraoch" temperature. I deal all the time with 10°F approach coils at work. That means the leaving air temperature is 10°F warmer than the entering water. In my application the goal is to cool the air, not the water. It works the same the other way. The obvious thing is that once the air temperature gets within 10° of the water it's not going to do much cooling - but by then it's probably in the neighborhood of 250°F. Thus the arguement that 4-rows aren't very effective and also the case for high-flow fans and doihng a very good job of sealing around the radiator & fan shroud to ensure all the air goes across the radiator and none around it. I guess my personal experience tends to indicate that a 4-row will work fine - since mine has been running flawlessly for over two years and 18,000 miles now. My fans don't run at highway speeds, only coming on in stop 'n go traffic or hot days whenthe AC is cranked all the way up. I even found that it only takes one of the two fans running to get the job done when one of the relays failed on a particularly hot day. On another note - if the air leaving the radiator is at 250°F think wwhat that does to the air density if your engine air intake is behind the radiator. When I was in college I did an engineering study that showed that a 100°F drop in air temperature and the resultant increase in air density was worth a 5% increase in flywheel HP. I think I just convinced myself to add item 13 to my "to do" list - move intake to in front of radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 LOL... I had to go look at that mount since I made it without a tape measure using the Griffin radiator as the guide. I determined by eye ball and hand placement where the radiator should be placed to get full benefit of the opening in the radiator support with my Moroso inline radiator hose filler (can be seen in photo) above the thermostat housing (very important location since you do not want the radiator cap below the thermostat housing when adding coolant. My radiator cap is slightly below thermostat but the inline hose radiator cap is not and the Tomahawk hood placement would make coolant refill at the radiator cap and adventure for only the most daring. I used !/8 onch angle iron and strap. My lower mounts that connect to the frame rails are bedframe angle iron (don't laugh this is high grade weldable spring steel ) two pieces welded together like this "Z" but straighter ...gave me enough to bolt the top ends to the frame rails and connect the bottom to the angle iron frame 3/4 X 3/4... I spaced the angle iron frame to the top and bottom edges of the radiator core which is a non critical two ribbed area that sticks out about 1/2 inch on the top and bottom that holds no water..... and welded the straps to the angle iron frames so the frame would just slip over the edge of the radiator core rails. The top and bottom core rails were designed to be the radiator mounting points for all modern radiators I went to a rubber supply house and obtained a scrap piece of rubber about 1/2 inch thick that I cut on my band saw to fit inside the angle iron frames which actualy gave about 1/4 inch "slip" contact between the angle iron frame and the top and bottom of the Radiator core rails which is now supported top and bottom by the rubber. I made one strap in the top middle of the angle iron frame to connect to the Z car metal radiator support and when the bent strap is snugged down with a single bolt the tension against the rubber from radiator core rails provides a solid rubber cushion support which would take a sledge hammer to dislodge. I also made two fiber glass shrouds as seen by photo to force all air comimg thru the grill to pass thru the radiator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Solidly mounted radiators are torn apart because the core support on a 240/260/280Z flexes. Simple rubber isolator mounts work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Maybe I missed this in a prior post but I want to point out something critical. After all is said and done you MUST use a coolant specifically made for aluminium! If you run just any antifreeze the core will disolve from the inside out. It will take a while but it will happen using the wrong product. I've seen this on several vehicles including my Land Rover hybrid. I hated buying that second radiator after only four years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 If you change your coolant every 2 years the aluminum won't corrode. You don't need a special coolant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Well, depending on where you live, if you use too much water in your mix for too long you could develop rust in your system. I've now seen 3 cars from oregon with this problem. One, unluckly enough was my brother 87 stang gt. We sold it since it basically needed a new motor. At any rate, you need to make sure you're running a good 50/50 60/40 mix and change it often. I ususally change mine every 5 oil changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Gee - I guess that means since I'm using Mobil 1 Extended Protection I only have to change the radiator fluid every 5 years - right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 LOL, well, depends on how much you drive. 5 oil changes for me is about a year and a half going 3k between oil changes. Sometimes I only go 2k though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I had a daily driver 19 77 620 pickup that went over 5 years without an oil change. I kept adding STP until there was no oil loss at all after 2 years. The JB Weld repair job in the cylinder head gave out and I left it in Klamath Falls on some proprty I sold and never returnned for it despite a recent paint job, 5 speed and a Weber DGV. A quarter of a million miles on the running gear and the clutch would slip a little when I forded a creek. Had a new set of 6 ply tires on it too. I kept finding these never used spare tires underneath these Datsun junker pickups I was buyng and after awhile I had a brand new set . Best pick-up I ever owned and I had about 50 620's between 73 to 79 and made a lot of pocket money reselling them.Still have a 78 long bed. Should be a kit marketed to determine when oil is too dirty or worn out, I never was too good of a judge to deternine longevity of oil after owning all the Datsuns I enjoyed over the years. Modern oil may last longer than we are led to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Well, BMW's scheduled maintenance oil changes are at 15k on new cars. Now that says something. My father bought an explorer not that long ago and went ahead and boght x amount of years free maintenance and they had him go in for an oil change at 1k miles, so I had him show me the recipt, and sure enough, they break the motor in on nonsynthetic then change it over to synthetic. Kinda smart if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasz Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Solidly mounted radiators are torn apart because the core support on a 240/260/280Z flexes. Simple rubber isolator mounts work well. Have you done this? I'd love to see some pix and know where you got the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 http://www.mcmaster.com Silicone Cylindrical Sandwich Mounts part # 4403K84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Also, radiator mounts from a 1979 et al BMW 320 (or other 3 series, I would think) will also work. they are just like the ones that John referred to above, but can be gotten from a local parts store or JY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Mount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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