Gollum Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I was actually pretty impressed with the acurracy of the track in GT4. For the most part cars were +/- 10% of thier real life counterpart. There's a guy on gtplanet who is running mid 4 minute laps. I don't think that's ever been done. He also does it in the arcade mode and I believe the physics are simplified a bit. Here's a vid of him running a 4.44 http://www.davidanderson.org.uk/files/gt4/veilsidebrnurburgringminolta44.wmv He uses a toyota minolta becuase he likes it. I think there are cars with more potential in the car for sure. The most impressive part is that he's not using any driver aids and he uses the driving force pro wheel in 900 degree mode. Most GT4 fans think the reason real life times don't get that fast is because it takes too much guts and 'on the limit' driving. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Double WOWs. Thanks John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusPuppis Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Amazing video.. Listen to that thing scream. Most GT4 fans think the reason real life times don't get that fast is because it takes too much guts and 'on the limit' driving. What do you guys think? I think its got alot to do with GT4 not being real. lol. You cant compare a game (no matter how good) to real life and what a car in the game and a car in rl could do in any given situation. Dont get me wrong, I love GT4 but I just dont see how a comparison could reasonably be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trecani Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I was actually pretty impressed with the acurracy of the track in GT4. For the most part cars were +/- 10% of thier real life counterpart. There's a guy on gtplanet who is running mid 4 minute laps. I don't think that's ever been done. He also does it in the arcade mode and I believe the physics are simplified a bit. Here's a vid of him running a 4.44 http://www.davidanderson.org.uk/files/gt4/veilsidebrnurburgringminolta44.wmv He uses a toyota minolta becuase he likes it. I think there are cars with more potential in the car for sure. The most impressive part is that he's not using any driver aids and he uses the driving force pro wheel in 900 degree mode. Most GT4 fans think the reason real life times don't get that fast is because it takes too much guts and 'on the limit' driving. What do you guys think? Just how in th F**K did he get it going that fast????! I topped mine out with gear ratios all the way up at 25 and only got it to 270. He's goin 395!! I did a 6:13 second lap with a top speed of 234, and I'm sure with 395, I can shave of 2-2:30 minutes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Just so you know... My best in simulation is only 5:49 while in arcade it's 5:31. Big difference. If you watch the vid you'll notice when he hits bumps the dampers absorb REALLY well and somehow when you expect the car to slide it doesn't. There's alot that I can't understand about his video. Now, I FULLY understand that GT4 can't be compared to real life. I'm just showing that GT4 is fairly accurate for stock vehicles but falls down on the job with the supercar speeds. LFS is a much more realistic game than GT4, but has horrible graphics and no funding by comparison. If I said GT4 felt 40% accurate to real driving I'd have to put LFS at 80% like real driving. The last 20% resides in feel. Those are the things that games at thier current state can't reproduce. But GT4's representation of the nurburgring is exremely accurate, and I'd like to see someone clock a low 5 minute lap sometime in real life. (also note the GT4 video I linked to was with the car fully tuned, whereas the stock version is the race restricted HP of the real car. That right there could make a 30-45 second difference). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I did a 6:13 second lap with a top speed of 234, and I'm sure with 395, I can shave of 2-2:30 minutes... It's km/hr. I converted it and 391 is 242 mph, which is definitely possible. I think it has to do with the arcade mode vs the sim mode, and that Toyota is DAMN fast and the guy playing the game is DAMN good. I've been into the 5:20's in the sim mode, but I'm still using the joystick so I'm handicapped somewhat. I don't think the game is totally accurate either. I pulled a 6:53 in a 240Z for cryin out loud. Look at that link I had earlier to REAL lap times, that's faster than a Radical SR8. Some of it has to do with driving on the verge of death the whole time, but also some of that has to be the game just not being accurate. For one thing when I did the 6:53 I had super soft tires on. If it weren't a practice session the tires would be completely gone within 1/4 lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 mmmmmmm wise this one is In the old group b (or was it c) cars in japan they used special preheated qualificaiton lap tires that would be GONE in one lap around fuji (a 2 minute lap in most stock vehicles) and had to pit immediatelly becuase they would start to fall apart. They clock some of the fastest times fugi will ever see (since restrictions started to come into play at that point and fugi was just redesigned) so tires are a big factor. And DANG, i need to go improve my times at the ring. You just modivated me I spend 90% of my GT4 time between drifting and getting that 100% complete status. I don't do enough time trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Thanks John. WOW. Just awesome. I need to start doing that type of racing. Looks fun as h@ll! Those drivers are unreal. WOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Alot of those bumps i think the car should of gone off... Even on non bumps it should of, some of this hills at that speed would have the car flying imho. Maybe it has to do with the tires which aren't real and all like jt said. Wonder what an escudo would do....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Another thing (i really should just start editing my posts) is that in GT4 cars have more lateral traction than horizontal traction. I'm not sure if I got my terms right, but basically the car has less grip for acceleration than turning. This is quite opposite than real life and from the rumors GT4 is like this due to limitations of the physics engine designed for GT3. But I think you're right rudy, there are parts where it seems the car should just plain be flying from the bumps. This is the unrealistic dampening that I was talking about, it just doesn't make sence. But I still recomend LFS to anyone who enjoys GT4, you can even try it out for free. If you have a wheel it's a really awsome experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Does the diff/tranny whine seem really abnoxious to anyone else besides me in the second video. I was just trying to listen to the motor, and i can hear it but the noise is really PIERCING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Another thing (i really should just start editing my posts) is that in GT4 cars have more lateral traction than horizontal traction. I'm not sure if I got my terms right, but basically the car has less grip for acceleration than turning. This is quite opposite than real life and from the rumors GT4 is like this due to limitations of the physics engine designed for GT3. Actually real life is very much the same. The problem isn't lateral vs straight traction, it's lateral vs straight acceleration. Very tough to accelerate to 4 gs. Much easier to DECELERATE to 4 or 5 gs, which F1 cars do. They also turn at 3 to 4 gs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 It's all a balance of grip, so why can you create more G decellerating than acceleraiting since it's the same surface area? But in general isn't there less lateral traction than straight traction? I guess it all comes down to the footprint of the tire. EDIT: I think I just figured my own quesiton out. Accelerating the tires have to fight the wieght of the car to create G, where as deccelerating the weigt of the car helps create G. Am I right? Or totally mixed up like I always am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Because F1 engines aren't powerful enough to create 5 gs of acceleration. It's easier to create braking torque than accelerating torque. Top fuel dragsters only accelerate at 3.3 gs according to this website. Not suprising that F1 cars can't get as much acceleration as a top fuel dragster. Take a look at this: http://www.geocities.com/dtmcbride/misc/speed-acceleration.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I think that M3 GTR still holds some records on a few of the coures it raced on when they were competing in the ALMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Then why do they still run into traction problems with wheelspin? I don't think I'm fully grasping all this. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying my mind isn't understanding something here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I would think its the differential since the pitch of the whine is not changing everytime he shifts gears. same with this guy: http://www.supercarchallenge.nl/video/Assen-bmwSTW.wmv Damn that guy shifts fast!!! Very well coordinated on the downshifts. Sounds like that diff isn't set up right. I've never heard one make that much noise, even in a racecar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Then why do they still run into traction problems with wheelspin? I don't think I'm fully grasping all this. I'm not saying you're wrong' date=' I'm saying my mind isn't understanding something here.[/quote'] Because the goal isn't to see who can generate the most g forces per se, it's to see who can do the fastest quarter. They're trying to accelerate as quickly as possible, and so they are pushing the limits of traction to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 So is traction directly related to tire friction? If that's the case, does a larger tire (255/45/16 vs 255/45/18 ) yeild more potential friction? And is there really more friction lateral than straight? Seems to me that there is much less friction (traction) avaible lateraly as you can get almost any car sideways at slow speeds, but the same car could have trouble loosing traction accelerating or deccelerating. Correct? Now, F1 cars do have insanely wide tires, AND alot less weight to worry about. Is this the main factor contributing to the extremely high lateral G? Are my initial thoughts about tires correct and the F1 senerio is just far outside the extreme of my train of thought of lateral vs straight traction? We should start our own thred. Kinda hijacking here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 That driveline noise is fine. If you ever get a chance to take a few laps in a real race car, you'll get into your personal vehicle and thank every inch of your interior for protecting your ears from all that noise. No, A Zcar drivetrain won't be that loud, but when gutting a car, putting in the level of chassis fortefication that car has, and then putting the race suspension under it the way it is, you get a really LOUD, really rough car that is made for one purpose... The track. rudypoochris, Go to a track day event as a spectator, sign the waiver and then beg an instructor for a ride around the course... You'll have a different opinion on what cars are capable of at speed... I was watching his hands during a lot of those moments and he was getting quite a bit of understeer at times, as you could see him correcting for the "push"... That was a VERY cool video...Especially with the inset cam of him driving and the view through the windshield. Gollum, Yes, larger tires do create more friction... Good example on the balance of a tire compound at work with regards to friction was the most recent NASCAR race at Lowe's Motorspeedway. Goodyear selected a compound they were happy with, but didn't account for the fact that the track had been re-surfaced and was MUCH faster. However, the higher speeds increased heat in the tires, building pressure and causing catastrophic failures... Basically the race ended up being a demolition derby and the owner of the track (Humpy Wheeler) and Goodyear both took a beating in the racing press. Goodyear stated that drivers and teams weren't running the correct pressure, and it became a big finger pointing excersise! The other example is when Michelin pulled out of the Indy GP. They did the responsible thing after doing the wrong thing, which was come with only one compound of tire. Tires do two things when they are rolling on any surface: Wear and heat up. Tire size can impact how fast a car goes, how fast the tire wears at that speed, and how the car will handle... When plussing up on wheel/tire sizes, it is always good to have a general understanding of the tire make and compound you will use and compare it to the size you currently have... Weight is another issue all together. Some times the added weight and the additional rolling resistance will offset any adantage in traction gained. The key is to strike a balance. I won't entertain a comment on simms vs. the real world... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.