TimZ Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 ...trial fitment of the GT4294R It's huge, but it looks like I should be able to get it to fit. :mrgreen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Looks good Tim. Did you have to mod the header? Keep the pics a coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilRufusKay Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 My...what large turbo's you have.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 holy sheat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Sweet! What manifold (both intake and exhaust) is that? Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8dats Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 looking good. think its enough for that 600whp? may have to sit on the passenger side to offset the weight of that baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 What manifold (both intake and exhaust) is that? The intake is triple 45mm TWMs on a Mikuni manifold. The exhaust is the infamous South Florida Performance header. (do a search) Joel - yes, I had to move the turbine inlet flange around a bit, but not too much. Looks like I'm going to be modding it a bit more, as a couple of the welds have cracked from heat stress (SFP didn't do too good a job of designing for heat expansion). I'm going to try welding in a couple of expansion joints, and maybe sectioning the header flange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 please tell me your gonna make a brace for that... thats alot of weight to just hang off the head, dont ya think? your smarter then me on these things so im just trying to find out. i plan on running a big turbo like that on my blue Z, lag i dont care about as ill have nitrous but i was thinking of making a brace for the added weight. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 please tell me your gonna make a brace for that... thats alot of weight to just hang off the head, dont ya think? Well, I wasn't going to, but now that you mention it... The header is made from 0.125" thick mild steel tubing, and there are plenty of studs holding the thing to the head, so I wouldn't think it would be that big of an issue. The stress cracks on the welds appear to be from the header expanding lengthwise, not so much from the weight of the turbo. One thing I'm worried about with a brace would be over-constraining the movement of the turbo as the header heats and cools. As the header heats up and expands, the brace would not, which might end up putting more stress on the header than the weight of the turbo in the first place. I'm gonna think on this a bit more, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 The intake is triple 45mm TWMs on a Mikuni manifold. The exhaust is the infamous South Florida Performance header. (do a search) Joel - yes' date=' I had to move the turbine inlet flange around a bit, but not too much. Looks like I'm going to be modding it a bit more, as a couple of the welds have cracked from heat stress (SFP didn't do too good a job of designing for heat expansion). I'm going to try welding in a couple of expansion joints, and maybe sectioning the header flange.[/quote'] That is exactly what you will have to do! Make it like the Euro Manifold: Add a joint to the last cylinder, and a joint to the front two. The center didn't seem to walk all that much when we tried to stress-relieve JeffP's. We went through two bottles of gas running a #4 rosebud and introduced reverse stresses past the warpage (like head straightening) and we still couldn't get it straight. We had that baby HOT! Burnt off the coating matter of fact. We came to the same conclusion: if there were two joints in there like the stock euro turbo manifold, the warpage in the center section would be managable as it was very minimal. Those two outliers are the cylinders that pull away from the head and introduce the stresses leading to crackage. Crackage, you know, like Pauly Shore and "Grindage"? Love the way that Mikuini Manifold moves the bodies up and away from the heat and gives you some room for the heat shielding you will later install. Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 why dont you just get one of those sport bike stabilizer brace bars? they move in and out.. with that you can also use it as a brace. we did that on my friends miata, its like a dampner brace. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 That is exactly what you will have to do! Make it like the Euro Manifold: Add a joint to the last cylinder' date=' and a joint to the front two. The center didn't seem to walk all that much when we tried to stress-relieve JeffP's. We went through two bottles of gas running a #4 rosebud and introduced reverse stresses past the warpage (like head straightening) and we still couldn't get it straight. We had that baby HOT! Burnt off the coating matter of fact. We came to the same conclusion: if there were two joints in there like the stock euro turbo manifold, the warpage in the center section would be managable as it was very minimal. Those two outliers are the cylinders that pull away from the head and introduce the stresses leading to crackage. [/quote'] This is exactly what I was thinking - I'm glad you chimed in, Tony. I've found a place that can supply me with some Inconnel bellows expansion joints that look really nice, but they are kind of pricey (~$170/joint ). I'm also considering cutting the header flange between cylinders to keep it from over-constraining the individual runners. Currently torn as to whether the two expansion joints would be enough or should I cut the flange, too On the support strut thing, I'm thinking that the stiffness of the manifold vs. the weight of the turbo would require a pretty stiff damper to be of much benefit - any thoughts, Tony (anybody else)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeder Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 'Bout time you got Big Momma installed Tim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I'm with Mikie on this one. Brace it or you're going to have long term cracks from the weight, added to the constant heating/ cooling cycles. The only turbo manifolds I've seen NOT crack are the larger oem cast steel manifolds out on the market. Lately, thanks to my kids and their friends, I'm seeing a LOT of turbo components and I've been asked to weld braces on TWELVE different manifolds. All of them cracked over time and none of them had braces to help relieve the stresses caused as described above. I'm not a mechanical engineer by trade, but I can't help but think the constant heat cycling, and the weight of the turbo are the culprit. Thoughts? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Wow...turbo envy...damn!!! Way to ruin my day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Holy Beard of Zeus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Nice turbo buddy, looks like the one I have. You can constrain while allowing for movement. Make sense? Use the heim joints to isolate vibration and provide additional support. The joints allow for expansion in certain directions. I braced to the flange and to the bottom of the block. It really added a lot of rigidity to the setup. I would just reweld the header and move on. Expansion bellows are not the only option. Slip joints are very cheap and provide the same expansion relief you seek. I used this same concept on the twinturbo ZR1 header. Pics below. Whoops, will dig up uncensored pic and send via e-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Yes, by joint, I didn't mean to say only an bellows would do. The stock Euro manifold I have has reworked slip joints to replace the bellows that came stock since they are NLA. In fact, Nissan used a machined recess that had two pieces inside each other one mated inside each respective portion of the manifold, then a bellows that covered the whole schebang. Basically a slip-joint covered by a bellows. The replacement parts I have are slip joint only, and the manufacturer has been running his in Europe for over a year now with no leaks. Initially he said there was some "puffing" cold, but as temperatures came up (or soot blocked the leak path!) it all sealed up nicely. I concur with the brace. A visit to Mario down at Toespeed reveals he usually makes a brace from the motor mount to the turbo flange. This is on Weld-El SS manifolds on HOndas supporting big turbos. He said even using Sch40 Weld Els, there was a cracking problem from overhung weight at the flange. Since he has added some 1/4" rods to each of the bottom corners to brace it to the motor mount area (almost directly below the thing on those applications) he has not had any cracking, and it allowed him to go back to using Sch10 SS Weld-Els. Triangulation might be a bit difficult, but he thinks a couple of rods could be fit somewhere to hold it all up and keep it from twisting. He attaches his to the flange itself. I like the idea of those heim joints, that would allow for checking stretch hot, then cold, and figuring out where inbetween you want to introduce the stresses. At that point, I suppose you could make them from a straight rod and use the ball joints elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Tim, Contact http://www.spdexhaust.com http://www.burnsstainless.com Ask them a price for a slip joint or double slip joint. I want to say they were in the $20 range for both pieces. On the corvette I just used a single slip and it had no issues. BTW, each header used a slip between cylinders 1-2 and cylinders 2-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Wow...turbo envy...damn!!! Way to ruin my day. tell me about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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