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Smoothness of BMW V12

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If anyone wants one I am getting rid of one of my V12 BMW's.. Interior got soaked (it was my daily driver) so I'm getting rid of it. It has a clear title and I also have a parts car with perfect interior but if someone wants a V12 that absolutely runs to do an engine swap this is a good way to get one. I'm in Chicago area.

e-mail me for the details

Chelle

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lol..

I think I can do the posting sound - maybe I'll do a short video clip soon. I have never posted/hosted video or audio so that may take a few days..

 

We took it to a show yesterday and had lots of fun :)

I'll post a few shots as soon as I upload them

Chelle

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Chelle' date=' your car is spectacular. Is that you in this photo?

 

*edit* Please tell me that isn't a broom handle hood prop?![/quote']

 

 

lol, no - that was just someone at the show..

older pic but this is me with the GTO before we redid everything

and nope - the hood brace is a piece of 3/4" thickwall chome-moly tubing

Chelle

 

me_and_gto.jpg

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Chelle what a terrific job you've done. My V12 is at the engine builder's shop, and I've decided to put it into a scratch built, tubeframe GT40 replica project. Not exactly being faithful to the blue oval diehards, but it should be a real interesting project.

 

Last time we corresponded, you were thinking about using either the Electromotive or the SDS EMS? Which did you settle on, and how did it work out for you?

 

I'm still planning on dual EMS's and an ITB induction system. Ought to look and sound pretty sweet with 12 intake trumpets. I'm also using the later M73 "stroker" crank, along with a linered early block, and am hoping to get around 5.7-6.0 litres displacement as Jay has done.

 

Really like those billet distributor drive covers you made - did you happen to make an extra set (hint, hint)?

 

John

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Thanx John,

your project sounds fun too - I'm thinking next maybe an Enzo replica.. I don't even like the Enzo all that much but do like the idea of annoying FNA :)

 

I settled on the Electromotive.. all around I'm very happy with the choice.

I'd love to have 12 individual throttlebodies, and may make a custom intake this winter if i'm not committed by then lol

 

The covers are pretty simple to turn on lathe - just have to remember to cup out the backside to clear the ends of the cams. I'll likely make more when I get to starting the next project

keep us informed how your build is coming

Chelle

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Chelle, if you prefer the classic rounded lines of the 60's, have a look at www.sportscarfactory.com They do a very nice XJ13 replica, which is already setup for a V12. It's a beautiful car, but a bit too batmobile for me.

 

Also, Fran Hall of Race Car Replicas does a gorgeous Ferrari P4 replica: http://race-car-replicas.com/RCRP4.html and you ought to be able to charm him into to stretching it a bit for a V12. After all, didn't Enzo himself once say, "It's not a REAL Ferrari unless it has a V12!" Fran's right there in Detroit, too, so not that far away from you.

 

On your current build, other than the EMS and dry sump setup, did you stay out of the engine internals? No rebuilding, linering, head porting, cams or other? If so, do you think you "found" any power in this motor with your Electromotive setup?

 

This engine seems to have so much potential, it's a pity BMW gave it such mild cams and low compression. But then, they probably didn't plan on people hotrodding it :-)

 

I'm hoping with the additional displacement, and the other goodies, we'll see between 375 and 400 BHP, which is up around 100 BHP from the stock figure, and is still only 70 BHP per litre. That's about the same output as more contemporary DOHC motors are making, so I think/hope it's achievable.

 

Lastly, I don't want to hijack this thread, so if anyone objects, please sing out, and I'll take this private.

 

Thx,

 

John

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Wow John,

XJ15 isn't really my type... But the P4 is definitely my type :) and the price is great considering what you get.... $37k is less than we have in the GTO.. honestly though I do enjoy doing my own work.

 

This engine is not modified much on the inside really yet. Of course the big chain driven oil pump is gone. The cams are currently stock 850 cams. The intakes have been extrudehoned and have larger throttlebodies. Of course there isn't a giant BMW alternator or A/C compressor or P/S pump on the engine anymore. Also the intake and exhaust is way less constricted..

Throw in a hotter ignition and everything a lot more programmable.......and I assume it's going to put a lot more power to the ground :)

We're still talking about the "smoothness of the BMW v12" so what we post on modifying the engines ought to be useful to others here

Chelle

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Oh wow, an Enzo? that'd be cool. Its great to meet another Ferrari fanatic. although, since I can't build my own Ferrari replicas, I just collect models and all that stuff.

 

I like all kinds of different cars Mason...

We still have the Lambo we restored.. it's a real Lambo..too :)

 

lamboallthree.jpg

movingday12.jpg

movingday7.jpg

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Mason, it's good to see a young Texan interested in exotic cars. Many people have the mistaken impression we Texans are only interested in big pick'em-up trucks. Keep that interest alive and good luck for the rest of your time in high school & after. My youngest son will be graduating next year, but I can't get him interested in cars - he's only interested in the opposite sex at the moment!

 

Chelle, thanks for the info. It would be very interesting to see a dyno of your car as & when. Are you aware of anyone else with one of these V12's who's dynoed recently? I haven't seen any of Jay's results since that 2004 SCCC when he laid down 409 RWHP with a bum set of cams.

 

Did you keep the stock injectors for your motor, or did you bump the size up a little? I'd also be very interested to hear more about your EMS and how the ignition & injection were setup. With the Electromotive, you must be running waste spark and batch injection, unless you happened to use twin Electromotives? Happy with the idle, etc.?

 

My 2nd "dummy" motor is just now ready (it has an extra hole in the block where the #12 rod made an unscheduled exit). Welding up the block was going to cost more than the entire motor did, so all the heavy internals (crank, rods, pistons, cams, valves) were pulled out, and the motor reassembled with bare heads, cam covers, oil pans, etc. to get a lightweight, but still fairly accurate silhouette of the motor for test fitting. I'll be bringing a motor/tranny adaptor back with me from England next week and hopefully will soon be able to see what this V12 looks like coupled to a Porsche G50 transaxle.

 

John

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Mason,

you are more than welcome (as is anyone here) to contact me if you are in the Chicago area to see the cars :)

John,

Currently the injectors are stock. The Electromotive unit allows for me to fire the injector whenever and as long as I want. The stock BMW computer used to fire three injectors at a time. There was only 4 different pulses sent out for 12 injectors!! I may go with bigger injectors at some point - but at this time I'm sticking with the originals (they have been sent out and refreshed)

What does the dummy engine weigh anyway?? I don't know anyone with any current dyno info either :( I'm pretty happy with the Electromotive. If cost had not been any concern I might have elected to go with the other system though - maybe in the future. It's a lot more suited to a 12.

Zerrari,

Thanx. The exhaust uses the 4 stock exhaust manifolds and then a custom setup with 4 glasspacks and 4 pace setter resonators.. kinda still a bit loud, but it is okay. The real wheel vents are just opened up about as much as possible with black 1/4" mesh screens to catch debris.. here's a pic from inside and outside.

Veritech-z

Thanx..The louvers really work with the look - and cool the engine compartment - to me it looks much better than the Ferrari 308GT4 in this regard .. and Miura... my all time favorite car.. I wanted the Shah's old blue SV... but prices have gotten really high on even a nice "S" :(

Chelle

 

GTO-rearvent0038.jpg

GTO-rearvent0040.jpg

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Chelle, if you're running EM's TEC3 6/12, which has 6 ignition outputs and 6 injector outputs, then I believe you're probably running a waste spark and semi-sequential injection setup. Where the BMW ECU had 4 outputs for 12 injectors, the EM has 6, so you're firing 2 injectors at a time, instead of 3, like you did with the OEM setup. And you're firing 2 coils at a time as well.

 

AFAIK, the MoTeC M800 is the only EMS (commonly available) that can individually fire/control 12 injectors and 12 coils, from a single system, but it still requires 2 ignition expander modules to do it.

 

I'll weigh that dummy motor when I get back next week. I'm really curious to see if one person can (wo)manhandle it :-)

 

John

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