Jump to content
HybridZ
RacerX

Smoothness of BMW V12

Recommended Posts

Wow John,

XJ15 isn't really my type... But the P4 is definitely my type :) and the price is great considering what you get.... $37k is less than we have in the GTO.. honestly though I do enjoy doing my own work.

 

This engine is not modified much on the inside really yet. Of course the big chain driven oil pump is gone. The cams are currently stock 850 cams. The intakes have been extrudehoned and have larger throttlebodies. Of course there isn't a giant BMW alternator or A/C compressor or P/S pump on the engine anymore. Also the intake and exhaust is way less constricted..

Throw in a hotter ignition and everything a lot more programmable.......and I assume it's going to put a lot more power to the ground :)

We're still talking about the "smoothness of the BMW v12" so what we post on modifying the engines ought to be useful to others here

Chelle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh wow, an Enzo? that'd be cool. Its great to meet another Ferrari fanatic. although, since I can't build my own Ferrari replicas, I just collect models and all that stuff.

 

I like all kinds of different cars Mason...

We still have the Lambo we restored.. it's a real Lambo..too :)

 

lamboallthree.jpg

movingday12.jpg

movingday7.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mason, it's good to see a young Texan interested in exotic cars. Many people have the mistaken impression we Texans are only interested in big pick'em-up trucks. Keep that interest alive and good luck for the rest of your time in high school & after. My youngest son will be graduating next year, but I can't get him interested in cars - he's only interested in the opposite sex at the moment!

 

Chelle, thanks for the info. It would be very interesting to see a dyno of your car as & when. Are you aware of anyone else with one of these V12's who's dynoed recently? I haven't seen any of Jay's results since that 2004 SCCC when he laid down 409 RWHP with a bum set of cams.

 

Did you keep the stock injectors for your motor, or did you bump the size up a little? I'd also be very interested to hear more about your EMS and how the ignition & injection were setup. With the Electromotive, you must be running waste spark and batch injection, unless you happened to use twin Electromotives? Happy with the idle, etc.?

 

My 2nd "dummy" motor is just now ready (it has an extra hole in the block where the #12 rod made an unscheduled exit). Welding up the block was going to cost more than the entire motor did, so all the heavy internals (crank, rods, pistons, cams, valves) were pulled out, and the motor reassembled with bare heads, cam covers, oil pans, etc. to get a lightweight, but still fairly accurate silhouette of the motor for test fitting. I'll be bringing a motor/tranny adaptor back with me from England next week and hopefully will soon be able to see what this V12 looks like coupled to a Porsche G50 transaxle.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mason,

you are more than welcome (as is anyone here) to contact me if you are in the Chicago area to see the cars :)

John,

Currently the injectors are stock. The Electromotive unit allows for me to fire the injector whenever and as long as I want. The stock BMW computer used to fire three injectors at a time. There was only 4 different pulses sent out for 12 injectors!! I may go with bigger injectors at some point - but at this time I'm sticking with the originals (they have been sent out and refreshed)

What does the dummy engine weigh anyway?? I don't know anyone with any current dyno info either :( I'm pretty happy with the Electromotive. If cost had not been any concern I might have elected to go with the other system though - maybe in the future. It's a lot more suited to a 12.

Zerrari,

Thanx. The exhaust uses the 4 stock exhaust manifolds and then a custom setup with 4 glasspacks and 4 pace setter resonators.. kinda still a bit loud, but it is okay. The real wheel vents are just opened up about as much as possible with black 1/4" mesh screens to catch debris.. here's a pic from inside and outside.

Veritech-z

Thanx..The louvers really work with the look - and cool the engine compartment - to me it looks much better than the Ferrari 308GT4 in this regard .. and Miura... my all time favorite car.. I wanted the Shah's old blue SV... but prices have gotten really high on even a nice "S" :(

Chelle

 

GTO-rearvent0038.jpg

GTO-rearvent0040.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chelle, if you're running EM's TEC3 6/12, which has 6 ignition outputs and 6 injector outputs, then I believe you're probably running a waste spark and semi-sequential injection setup. Where the BMW ECU had 4 outputs for 12 injectors, the EM has 6, so you're firing 2 injectors at a time, instead of 3, like you did with the OEM setup. And you're firing 2 coils at a time as well.

 

AFAIK, the MoTeC M800 is the only EMS (commonly available) that can individually fire/control 12 injectors and 12 coils, from a single system, but it still requires 2 ignition expander modules to do it.

 

I'll weigh that dummy motor when I get back next week. I'm really curious to see if one person can (wo)manhandle it :-)

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zerrari.. :) lol

 

Wow John - you know your stuff. This unit I have a a Tec3r, configured like the 6/12 would be. Typically the 6/12 would be sold to the Porsche guys with a dual plug 6 cyl. and yes, it fires 2 injectors at a time.. Motec is great but I had a hard time finding much info. Same with Haltec.. the "other" system I was talking about is straight out of Indy Racing and F1... EFI Technologies. They do have a system that has 12 injector outputs... it even has 2 Meg of storage for data logging. Also no cheap automotive connectors on it - it uses big military style locking connectors..

Here's some specs from their site:

 

* Sequential injection for 12 injectors

* 10 coil outputs

* 22 analog inputs

* 4 digital inputs (Hall or Magnetic)

* 4 switch inputs

* 4 Auxiliary control outputs l Dual internal NGK Lambda amplifiers

* 2 PWM Control (wastegates)

* Dual K-Type thermocouple inputs

* DC motor driver

* Dual Knock control

* 2 MB internal data logger

* 2 RS232 interfaces (115,200 kbaud)

* 1 current loop interface

 

 

 

* User-friendly software

* 3D fuel and spark maps

* All maps with adjustable breakpoints

* Programmable sensor calibrations

* Closed loop lambda control

* Unique self-mapping software

* Fuel and spark trims for each cylinder

* 3D injection phase map

* Sensor correction tables

* Closed loop boost control (5 maps)

* Shift without lift function

* Pit lane speed limiter

* ECU loadable with 2 calibrations

* Adjustable internal logger sample rates

 

OUTPUTS

 

* 12 injector drives

* 10 digital ignition outputs

* Wastegate controls (2)

* DC Motor

* 4 Auxiliary outputs

* Lambda heater control

* Digital tach output

* Data link to data logger

* Expansion box interface

 

 

DIGITAL INPUTS

 

* Engine speed

* Cam position

* Front wheel speed

* Rear wheel speed

* Beacon

* Switches (2)

 

ANALOG INPUTS

 

* Throttle, Battery, Airbox, ExBP, Air Temp, Water Temp, Oil Temp, G Box Temp, Fuel Press, Oil Press, Dual NGK, Beacon, Lateral G, ECU Temp, Vref, Mixture SW, Boost SW, Dual EGT, Dual Knock

 

Their site is here: http://www.efitechnology.com/index.html

 

The unit you want for our engines is the 4.0 race computer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chelle, those EFI Technologies boxes are the ultimate; I've been drooling over them for years, but I'll bet there wouldn't be much change left from $10K, once you get the box, harness, and all the ancillary stuff. I'm thinking (hoping) the MoTeC can be done for around half that.

 

At some point we have to ask ourselves, is a $10K EMS "REALLY" that much better than Webers? I have an AEM in my car now, and I'm forever fooling with it, just as I would be with Webers. Maybe it's just because it's there and we can.....

 

Here's MoTeC's page for their M800: http://www.motec.com/products/ecu/m800.htm

 

And a link to download the manual: http://www.motec.com/support/manuals/M400%20M600%20M800%20M880%20Manual%20A5.pdf

 

And finally, the page for the Expander modules:

http://www.motec.com/products/expansion/componen.htm

 

From what I understand, the base M800 comes with 8 injector and 6 coil outputs. Four of the 6 coil outputs get reconfigured as injectors, then the remaining 2 coil outputs drive two of these expanders, which then can drive up to 16 coils in full sequential mode. Looks good on paper doesn't it?

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll weigh that dummy motor when I get back next week. I'm really curious to see if one person can (wo)manhandle it :-)

 

John

 

The dummy motor without any innards weighs just a tad over 150 lbs, so it can be handled, but not very easily. It consists of block, heads, valve covers, front & rear timing covers, pans, and that's about it. Just enough to have a fairly accurate silhouette of the real motor.

 

No crank, pistons/rods, cams, valves, pulleys, flexplate, etc.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow - heavier than I would have guessed... thanx John

 

Here's the most recent pic of the engine mods to our car.. hood is off again as we're trying to do fuel mapping.... tedious changing the plugs every couple hours trying to get it to run right... :(

Chelle

GTO-engine-Aug0004a.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chelle I'm gonna have to take you up on the offer and come look at your cars when I head back up to Chicago in the comming weeks!!

 

Looks insanely awesome as ever :)

Mario

 

Thanx Mario- just let me know when you are in town - I'm in the far north burbs and you're welcome to come by and as long as it's not raining take a ride... word of warning - with right hand drive people sitting in the passenger seat kinda freak out a little not having a steering wheel and brake pedal in the left seat like they are used to

lol

I probably need to put a grab bar over there or something.

Chelle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

... hood is off again as we're trying to do fuel mapping.... tedious changing the plugs every couple hours trying to get it to run right... :(

Chelle

 

Chelle:

I don’t think fuel mapping is ever complete. You can get close to how you want it to run…but there will always be something else you can do to tune it more. I have been remapping mine since ’99. I had to start over after the cam change.

Your car looks good…enjoy it while the weather is warm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...