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RacerX

Smoothness of BMW V12

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Thanks for the info, Chelle. I can buy at wholesale prices from BMW, but the Getrag is still pretty rich for my budget. Shoot me a PM if you're interested in selling yours privately, though this project probably isn't going to wait for winter. Down here in Houston, winter is the driving season! Summers get pretty warm, so that's when we do our tear-downs.

 

Conversely, or even better, let me know if you can dig up that adapter plate you have already made and make me a deal on it. A T56 is a very typical (and good) transmission and would probably work fine in my application. You have my e-mail and phone if you want to contact me more directly. THANK YOU for your reply!

 

Cheers, John

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lol, I just noticed, the two most recent threads under "other engines" section, discussion of running a V12, and then, discussion of what the best engine is for getting high miles to the gallon..

 

It's true I suppose, Hybridz truly does cater to all types :)

Today it cost $93 to fill the tank in the GTO

scary

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John C,

Hey, i keep looking at the drysump you talked to me about and thinking I want in on that. It would allow me to drop the pump lower if they do it like the pictures as long as it's on the same side of the engine as the inlet for the oil into the engine (other side of the engine would be right in the way of the steering). You said price would be 10k for three. if it comes down to it I could pay for two and just save one for a future project.

Dropping the pump would give me more space to maybe put the alternator on that side too, closer to how it was originally

Let me know what you think.

Chelle

 

Chelle, Henry is engineering his own setup now, based on using one of those pumps. Pricing should be a little better too. Drop him an email if you're interested. Did you ever put on a set of ITB's?

 

John

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I'll call him monday John, an nope - I should have bought it already, but I needed to modify the firewall to install it though as the left head is actually behind part of the firewall. That is finally done so now there's room to install an ITB setup. Do you know if the setup on the "Sport Speciale" came from Henry? I'm referring to the car pictured below. It uses a single fuel rail down the middle like Henry's. I have also seen one using TWM throttle bodies with a fuel rail along each side and someone was trying to convince me to use 6 of the TWM's that look like the old 2 barrel webers, but that will require a lot of fabrication to get the intakes right

Chelle

 

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/02/ferrari-aston-martin-maserati-inspired.html

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Very nice work Chelle.. the BMW V12 engines are great. There are some here to @ the local scrapyard, I thought about planting one in to, but never happened. I'm not the much electronics expert... :mrgreen:

 

So your new challenge, drop in this 37 litre V12 badboy maybe? :rolleyesg ( I think you need a hell of a diff and undercarrage to handle the torque and 2500+ hp.

 

 

reno01pmenginefg7.jpg

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Bart,

Did you ever see the insane Opel GT with Allison V12? there are very few pictures of it and I fear when the builder sold it on ebay someone may have torn it apart for the engine :(

Actually it was more like someone bolted the front 2/3rds of an opel to the front of an Allison V12. There was no firewall and the front of the engine was about 5" behind the drivers seat.

I'll see if I can find some pics of it, when the car was auctioned a few years ago I saved the pics from the auction

 

Goldfish, the stock oiling system is great, the only problem is it makes the whole thing a lot taller. Even with a custom crossmember it's hard to get it to sit low enough to go in a low car like the z-cars. If you just raise it up you'll need a bump in the hood shaped like a big box to have room The Lambo replicas can get by without a dry sump because at the back those cars are high enough to clear. Personally I prefer keeping the whole assembly as low as possible for the lowered center of gravity :)

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Thanks for the info, Chelle. I can buy at wholesale prices from BMW, but the Getrag is still pretty rich for my budget. ....

 

Cheers, John

 

I forgot to add to that in cost when using the BMW Getrag, the shifter pieces (can't buy assembly at dealer, you have to buy each piece separately), plus clutch, pressure plate, T/O bearing, and flywheel, even getting trade prices using the stock parts you can easily add more than $2500 to the cost.

If you go with aftermarket pieces like we did you'll double that at the lowest. It can get scary expensive fast. With used parts or a salvage car though you can do it cheap, it's just hard to come by the 6 speed in a parts car. I know of one in Albany NY and they want $3750 for the trans (includes a $500 core charge)

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Do you know if the setup on the "Sport Speciale" came from Henry? I'm referring to the car pictured below. It uses a single fuel rail down the middle like Henry's. I have also seen one using TWM throttle bodies with a fuel rail along each side and someone was trying to convince me to use 6 of the TWM's that look like the old 2 barrel webers, but that will require a lot of fabrication to get the intakes right

Chelle

 

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/02/ferrari-aston-martin-maserati-inspired.html

 

Chelle, that certainly looks like one of Henry's, but I've seen nearly the same setup on one of the BMW tuner websites (albeit @ 2x the price!)

 

Personally, I think exposed fuel rails down the outboard sides detract from the looks of ITB's. I wouldn't do it, especially on a car that "looks" the period like yours.

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Bart,

Did you ever see the insane Opel GT with Allison V12? there are very few pictures of it and I fear when the builder sold it on ebay someone may have torn it apart for the engine :(

Actually it was more like someone bolted the front 2/3rds of an opel to the front of an Allison V12. There was no firewall and the front of the engine was about 5" behind the drivers seat.

I'll see if I can find some pics of it, when the car was auctioned a few years ago I saved the pics from the auction

 

 

Yeah, I saw it, and some American guy also placed the 27 liter Merlin in a Chevy 55. I think id would be awsome to ride, the Griffon the 10 liter more version would be deadly i think :mrgreen:. Well for your Americans it's easier because you don't have much rules for cars to go on the road or period checks. It is here in Europe. Like when my 240Z is done, It needs goverment check before going on the road. So such crazy engine ideas would be impossible here...

 

I often go to tractorpulls and have known the now death Jan van Alphen from Popeye team, he was a big enthousiast with the Alisson engines. Although I prefer Rolls Royce.

 

I love your work, keep going..that's the way.

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I forgot to add to that in cost when using the BMW Getrag, the shifter pieces (can't buy assembly at dealer, you have to buy each piece separately), plus clutch, pressure plate, T/O bearing, and flywheel, even getting trade prices using the stock parts you can easily add more than $2500 to the cost. ... I know of one in Albany NY and they want $3750 for the trans (includes a $500 core charge)

 

I can buy the 850CSi trans new for less than that, which actually surprised me. But as you point out, I still need all the parts to make that work. Looks like it will be a 50%+ premium compared to trying to use an adapter plate to a Tremec or similar gearbox. (Ever find that adapter plate?!)

 

How long is your Getrag gearbox, from where the bellhousing bolts to the engine to the tail of the box? With a live rear axle, I'm a little worried about how much driveshaft length I'll have left. Can't have the u-joints binding over bumps. Six-speeds tend to be much bigger than five-speeds, so I don't want to order a trans not knowing whether it will fit...

 

Thanks again for the info and support -- you've got my e-mail address or can PM if you want to take this off the forum.

 

Cheers, John

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How long is your Getrag gearbox, from where the bellhousing bolts to the engine to the tail of the box? With a live rear axle, I'm a little worried about how much driveshaft length I'll have left.

 

I'm having no trouble locating Getrag Type F gearboxes. But no one will tell me the dimensions of the bloody thing, so I have no idea if it will fit. It's getting frustrating!

 

Also, the good folks down at Dellow Auto have been helpful. Apparently they make a bellhousing and throwout bearing to adapt a TKO to the M70. However, the guy in charge of that project/division is on vacation -- for a month. So I'm kind of on hold about what to do for a transmission, and I really wanted to drop the driveline in for testing in the next few weeks.

 

I'll keep updating. I'd start a new thread, but since this isn't for a Z-car, I'm mostly just leveraging Chelle and the one or two others that have used this mill before me. There's precious little info out there.

 

Cheers, John

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Here are more pics of the car from the shop that did it.. WOW this is awesome. http://www.thecreativeworkshop.com/SportSpeciale/index.htm

 

Yeah well, the shop that made that was able to invoice the customer $600,000. For that money it had better be nice. Also they would argue it's not a replica, as they "don't do replicas". they said it's inspired by the 59 TR and Birdcage.

Certainly it is a nice car but after reading the article about it in Robb Report and speaking with some of the people who supplied the parts I have other issues with the builders. They certainly are getting every bit of press they can out of it though. They issued press releases and it has been covered in magazines from the Robb Report to Maxim.

 

John sorry I have been AWOL a while - left my job and have been unavailable on a contract. I will try and reply in a more timely manner. I'll have to measure he trans and driveshaft next time I get it up on a lift but I think the driveshaft is about 2 feet and the trans maybe 2 1/2 feet... just an estimate seems like it was about the same length as the engine.

Chelle

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Thanks, Chelle. Congrats on changing directions professionally; I know first-hand that the transition is not always smooth. Please just shoot me a PM or e-mail at your convenience. I believe it's M30 (or M50?) throttle bodies that I need to source. And of course, I'd still buy your Tremec transmission adapter plate in a heartbeat if you could find it... Get in touch when you have a moment -- I'm putting the engine back together soon, and hope to have the project on the road in another month or three. Thanks again!

 

Cheers, John

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There is a guy in Norway who are fanatics about these BMW V12`s. He just finished a single turbo V12 and have a twin turbo from before. The TT V12 motor is stock and the single turbo V12 is built.

 

TT motor maxed out the dyno last year 750 rwhp, video:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v626/e30big/550%20twin%20turbo/video/?action=view&current=MOV00949.flv

 

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v626/e30big/550%20twin%20turbo/?action=view&current=MOV00952.flv

 

 

DSC00182.jpg

 

1 norwegian krone (coin) balanced on top of TT V12 motor:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v626/e30big/550%20twin%20turbo/video/?action=view&current=49ce3716.flv

 

Single turbo V12 and TT V12:

 

DSC00987.jpg

 

Single turbo V12 has so far dynoed 814 rwhp on ONLY 1.1bar. Owner hopes to max the turbo out, 1800 bhp.

 

DSC00027.jpg

 

DSC01026.jpg

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Does anyone -- ANYONE -- know what manual throttle bodies mate to the M70 V12 intake?

 

Apparently the answer -- or the closest answer -- is a throttle body from the E30 3-series. I haven't tried it yet. Will probably just gut the electronic throttle bodies, since I am looking at a full custom induction setup.

 

Anyway, I just missed this thread being at the top. I've acquired my transmission. Time to move forward.

 

Cheers, John

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