wheelman Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 if u use the right inner tierod, u can use the stock suby outers in the z w/ zero modifications... Which inner tie rod are you using?? Making a statement like that is guaranteed to generate questions. The angle on the first u-joint in your setup looks a little extreme, have you noticed any binding with it? I also went to the JY and grabbed the Suby steering shaft. It amounted to a rag joint with a u-joint on each end. I cut one of the u-joints away from the rag joint and will weld it to the end of my stock steering shaft. It'll need to be shortened first though. Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetride2go Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 hey, another NW Z... Moog EV167 i got mine from napa, someone else aquired them from car quest... i actually got the part# from another Z guy here locally... ive changed them out, they fit great... only thing is they dont hav the slight bend to them like the stockers do, so there may be a possibility of bumpsteer, mabe *shrugs*?... but it is a "bolt in" installation in regards to the tie rod assembly... then thers the whole fabricating mounts for the rack and making lines and such, lol... u must mean the middle U-joint?... i didnt want to route it that way, but no matter how i ded it, it wasnt gona fit w/ the 1-3/4" block huggers... sooo, in goes the center joint, then the support, gah... its tight, but no binding... i still might modify it again (this would be the 3rd time)and try to get some of the angle out of it... i made a polyurethane rag joint for it, iits the white disc in the assembly near the firewall/collum... this might be easier using the JTR style engine mounts, but the shaft out of the suby rack wanted to go right through the datsun mount on the crossmember... nuthins been easy on this build, haha, guess thats the challange of fabrication... cheers =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Yeah, there are actually quite a few of us in the NW. In fact there are 3 members of HybridZ here in the Tri-Cities alone. Could you take a picture of your setup and possibly measure it from tip to tip of the outer tie rods so we have the dimensions of the setup. I looked up that part number and it references back to a Toyota Celica ST. And you were able to thread it right into the rack and the Suby outer tie rod with no problem? The outer Suby ends, did your's look like the ones in the pictures from 78lt1z? What about the taper of the Suby ends, how did it match up the the Datsun steering arm? Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetride2go Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 meh, i dont think i could get a descent photo of the overall length since its all sealed up, and that new inner tierod boot was a PITA to get on.. but ill get a pic of the installed version, haha... i had no clue that it was for a toyota, but ya, it all threaded together quite nicely... the toyota inner(now that i know) threaded right into the suby rack, and didnt bottom out the threads, so all was good there... my suby outers look just like the one 78lt1z has pictured, its kinda a short, stubby tie rod end... i havnt thrown dial callipers on it to verify, but the taper seems the same, no slop, no noticable difference... the hardest part was changine the inner tierods, and getting a secure hold on the suby rack while trying to break loose the original suby inners... ryan~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 I did some more research and finally took the rod ends off my rack to measure them and here's what I found. My rack is from a 1999 Forester. The rack housing length is 18.25" The rack length (part that moves back and forth) is 23.5" The inner tie rod thread size is M14-1.5 The input shaft has the rough splines (I count something like 20 splines even though we thought it was 18). It appears the following Subaru racks all use the smaller thread inner tie rod end. Might even be the exact same rack. 1998 - 2002 Forester 1993 Impreza 1998 - 2001 Impreza 1991 - 2004 Legacy 2001 - 2004 Outback I'm a little confused by this list as sweetride2go said his rack is from a 1995 Impreza and the thread dimensions I found for the inner tie rod he used are the same as those on my rack. Maybe the length was different. So it would appear that the older racks are more desirable because it's possible to use the inner tie rods from an 84 Celica with the stock Subaru outers that come with the rack. I still need to assemble this combination and measure it's length from end to end before I'll be comfortable saying that is a 100% true statement but it's looking promising, especially based on sweetride2go's install. Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetride2go Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 hmm, interisting... when i initially researched going to powersteering, i found some threads in here, and they wer using the mid 90's suby racks, hence mine... however ive talked to a couple other and they are using late model forester racks... my 95(course i got it from a junkyard) looks identical to the one 78ZLT1 has pictured... now u hav me wondering if theres any discrepencies, ill run by the shop on the way home tnite and take some measurements on overall housing length and see if i can feel through the boots and get the rack length, and then overall length from end to end, wich will end up being similar to the datsun overall obviously since im rolling it around like this... NAPA PN 269-3389 is for the outer, i had to replace one, and it says this fits all impreza's 93-06, and some forresters and legaceys of different years inbetween... course the computers at parts stores hav never been known to be completly accurate, haha.. this pic prolly wont help much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetride2go Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 wheelman, i measured my rack as best as i could being the boots are on... these measurements are approximate being that i was trying to feel for items to measure from under the rack boots... rack housing width: 18" +/- inner rack width: 23.5" +/- they seem to match your measurements... also, mine has the coarse spline... ryan~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mileski Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 It turns out that my Subaru rack has the input shaft with 20 splines. Since nobody makes a u-joint with that configuration, I did some investigating. It turns out, the shaft diameter just below the splines is about .670, or 17mm. All of the aftermarket u-joint manufacturers (Borgeson, Flaming River, Woodward) make a 17mm double D joint. I disassembled my rack, cut the splined end off the input shaft and had it two flats machined on it to match the 17mm double D joint. I bought a 17mm DD X 3/4" round joint and it fits like a glove. See pics. Mike Mileski Tucson, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 In your first pic is looks like I can see part of the t-bar. Did you pin that before this mod? It's hard to tell from the picture. You need to be very careful with that piece or you'll have steering that will not work correctly. Cary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mileski Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 The only mod I've made to the steering rack is to the input shaft as explained. I don't know what you're referring to as a "t-bar" but the other parts pictured in the background are suspension pieces. Mike Mileski Tucson, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperredls1z Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 In your first pic is looks like I can see part of the t-bar. Did you pin that before this mod? It's hard to tell from the picture. You need to be very careful with that piece or you'll have steering that will not work correctly. Hey Cary. dont make it so easy for Mike, it took me 6 months to to find out that wont work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 The only mod I've made to the steering rack is to the input shaft as explained. I don't know what you're referring to as a "t-bar" but the other parts pictured in the background are suspension pieces. The attached picture shows the outline of the t-bar. The pinion is actually hollow where the u-joint connects and inside this is a torsion spring that is hooked to the servo valve. The top of the pinion is hooked to the t-bar and the bottom to the servo valve. This is what controls the power steering and the feel. If you cut the top down and didn't keep the t-bar pinned you will not be able to have functioning power steering. And if you decide to weld the top of the pinion you need to be very careful because you can damage the t-bar, which happened in Dave's case. The first thing that happens when the t-bar breaks is the steering goes freaky light. If you get the servo valve cocked one way or the other then you have power steering in one direction and get to fight the pump to turn the other way. Cary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I bought a set of the 84 Celica inner tie rod ends to check the fitment, here is what I found along with some pictures. They thread right into the Subaru rack (99 Forrester) and the Subaru outer end threaded right on to them. The shortest length of the combination is 10.75". 2 of those with the 23.5" length of the rack makes for a minimum length of 45" which is about 1" shorter than the length I measure for my stock rack as it came out of the car. This leaves plenty of adjustment as the threaded section of the inners is about 2.5" long. I also measured the taper of the Subaru outer and the Datsun outer, they are essentially identical. The threaded portion of the ends I have are different as well as the distance from the ball to the start of the taper with the Subaru being longer in both these aspects but the actual tapered sections have the same dimensions. This means there is essentially a bolt together solution for the tie rods assuming you have one of the earlier racks. I don't know exactly which ones match the specs of mine but the list referenced above sort of indicates those would at least accept the Celica inners. Here are the pictures I took, let me know if there are any other views you want to see. This shows my Datsun rack along side the Subaru rack with the Celica inners and stock Subaru outers. The outers are not threaded in as far as they can go. This shows the outer, inner and combination at it's shortest. This shows the difference in length between the Subaru inner and the Celica inner. Edit: The rust you see on the Celica inners is from the old nasty Subaru outers I'm using to mock this up. I will replace the outers with new ones once I get everything else complete. Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kash Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Anyone know if this set-up will work with the stock L28 in the S30? Do you think the larger rack will clear the oil pan??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Viperredls1Z has done several Subaru rack conversions with the original engine. You should contact him about how he did it. Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kash Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Thanks for the lead Wheelman. Got the following response back from Viperredls1Z: " The Subaru rack WILL fit with the L6, you will have to cut away some of the motor mount for steering shaft clearance. if you have a high HP car you may want to reinforce it." Thanks again! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concretevz Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Wheelman do you have a pic of your finished setup looking down into the engine bay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Concretevz, It's funny you should ask that, I finished the installed and took the car out for it's first auto-x event this weekend. I have some more in progress pictures I haven't posted yet. I really need to get them online so everyone can benefit, unfortunately I'm flying to San Jose tomorrow so I won't be able to get them up until next weekend at the earliest. Just a quick report of how the 1999 Forrester rack worked out. It's got a fairly light feel, comparable to a modern sports car, has pretty good feedback for a power rack and is much quicker than the stock rack. Last season I would come home from an auto-x event totally exhausted from driving the Z, it was a real workout. This weekend I still came home tired but not all from driving the car, other than fighting the g-forces . I can say that if I hadn't put the power rack in I would have a hard time enjoying an event with the new 265/45-16 Kumho VictoRacers I bought from Braap. They are working out great by the way!!! Some things I ran into that I will probably have to redo: I didn't get the rack as level as I want it relative to the cross member, the passenger side is a tad high. I also didn't get it quite as low as I wanted it, adjustable links at the steering knuckle or moving the inner control arm pivot point would help eliminate bump steer. I don't think I have any worse problem with this than the stock setup had. I raised my engine up 1/2 inch so the main pulley would clear the rack. If you used a smaller pulley or a hub from a Camaro or Corvette you may not have to do this. My engine is from a Caprice so it has the longer pulley hub which placed the pulley too close to the rack. One side benefit from raising the engine is better drive line angles. I didn't notice any difference from this while auto-xing but there were so many other things changed it would be impossible for me to tell anyway (in other words don't ask me and I don't want to debate it). Overall I'm happy I did the install, the Subaru rack works very well with the GM pump and the Celica inner tie rod ends and stock Suby outers. It also provided a ton more room for the driver's side header. Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concretevz Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Thanks for the update and I'm looking farward to the pics of the completed project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxand280z Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 I'm using a 98 forester rack and I don't know which port the in line coming from the pump goes too. Does any one know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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