mull Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 From my project thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=674162 < Please comment in that thread. Please comment in: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=674162 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Wow! Very nice. I love the door bars, and I love the A pillar bars. Very tight to the body of the car. Question: How are you welding the top of the bars that are next to the ceiling? I'm contemplating how to do this myself, and I've heard three solutions: 1. cut off roof, weld bars, weld roof back on 2. cut holes in roof, weld bars, patch roof 3. leave bars hanging low enough to access top of the bars I don't like option 3, and it almost seems like option 1 is easier than option 2. What did you do? Was it one of these or something else entirely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 very very nice cage! wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mull Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Wow! Very nice. I love the door bars' date=' and I love the A pillar bars. Very tight to the body of the car. Question: How are you welding the top of the bars that are next to the ceiling? I'm contemplating how to do this myself, and I've heard three solutions: 1. cut off roof, weld bars, weld roof back on 2. cut holes in roof, weld bars, patch roof 3. leave bars hanging low enough to access top of the bars I don't like option 3, and it almost seems like option 1 is easier than option 2. What did you do? Was it one of these or something else entirely?[/quote'] Thanks! : ) You forgot option #4: Cut holes in the floor and lower the cage - weld the top - lift up and patch up the floor/weld base plates. We used #3 pretty much. It's pretty tight but still accessible with the use of a stick welder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I've done option 1 and option 4. I will only do option 1 after explaining it in detail to the customer and the customer is comfortable with it. There's nothing like the look of sheer terror on a customer's face when they walk in the shop and there's no roof on their car - and they were not warned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I still want to see the gerbil that is going to power this awesome rollcage around the mountain roads of Sweden... Very good design there Mull. Hope it won't be needed. Nice dash bar too. What dash are you going to use in Hugo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 FYI... For those building cages now for SCCA competition, NASAR style door bars (two bars curving into the door) are now mandatory as of 2007 for Showroom Stock and IT. And they are NOT grandfathering previous cages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Ewww, thanks John... I guess they deem that modificationto meet the new rules is easy as their rational behind not grandfathering in old cages? I also prefer option 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Just thinking outloud, but on my next cage I would use the upper u-shape design similar to this: only tack the front down tubes in the initial mock up, weld the bottom halves of the upper rears, remove the front tubes, angle the remaining 2 pieces forward, finish the weld on top and put it all back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zed240au Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 with the roll cage in my rx4 the guy building it made it abot 3" shorter than needed welded it all up then made up metal boxes to fit under the legs and lift it up to the roof really simple way to do plus gave bigger area welded to car to support roll cage Cage was tested out when second navigator ended for ended 2nd rx4 6 times cage measured perfect no distortion at all mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ManyZs Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Also hear rumors that old cages such as the Autopower will not be grandfathered in any more. They want the main hoops to attach to the floor area and the older Autopower cages that attach to the inner fender won't be legal. To me option #5 as zed240au alluded to is probably the easiest, as you can do your welding, then adjust the height of not only the main hoop but also your the front of the cage to butt up against the windshield pillar/roof if you build up boxes off the rocker area under the hoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synlubes Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 We need more detailed pics of the mounting points please. They will be saved for future cage construction. Looks very nice so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 There is another option that was done by my buddy Jerry the owner of http://www.zraceproducts.com. This may not be legal for SCCA etc. so if you try this method be sure to check the rules first. Jerry built his cage in a very similar fashion to Mull but after each piece was made and test fitted he did the following. 1. Assembled the cage in the car and put a single small tack weld at each joint just to hold it together. 2. Marked a "cut" line on all the tubes that would allow the cage to be cut and removed without touching a welded joint. (cut line should be at least 4" from welded joint) 3. Put locator marks at each joint then cut the spot welds to remove the cage. 4. Use a large tubing cutter to cut the cage on the cut lines from step #2. 5. Weld all the joints together using your locator marks from step #3. Add any gussets that you want and prep and paint the cage at this point. 6. 1 1/2" from the point were the cage is cut in step #4 drill a 3/8" to 1/2" hole through both walls of the tube. Do this on each piece i.e. when you put them back together both pieces should have a hole drilled all the way through it. 7. Take a 4" length of tubing (of the same material as your cage) that has an OD just slightly smaller than the ID of your cage tubes and insert it 2" into the cage tube (the side you use is determined by which direction you want to assemble it in the car) and plug weld it in place through both holes. Do this on one side of each cut making sure you can assemble it in the car. 8. Assemble the cage in the car by fitting all the pieces together. 9. After assembly is complete plug weld the rest of the holes. After step #9 you can touch up and repaint the areas that you had to clean for welding. The plug welds are not as strong as your other welds but they do not need to be as they will not encounter shear forces great enough to break them without bending your cage in half first. I do not have any pictures of his cage to show but I can answer any questions any one may have about it. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Nice work. Like to see the main diagonal before you weld it in. I prefer my door bars about 5 inches apart with a couple verticals spacing them- stiffer and breaks upt the space where pieces of the other guy's car can penetrate when you get T-Boned. Did I say nice work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I'm not really uptodate on the rules for door bars, but what is the advantage to this design over this design? It would seem the first example would be easier to get in and out of, but not as strong. Is there a strength advantage to bending the door bars towards eachother and welding together? VS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Nice work. Like to see the main diagonal before you weld it in. I prefer my door bars about 5 inches apart with a couple verticals spacing them- stiffer and breaks upt the space where pieces of the other guy's car can penetrate when you get T-Boned. Did I say nice work? I've been biting my lip, but I have to agree on both points, outstanding work, but I'm in favor of the vertical spacers as well. But depending on the application, this is probably entirely adequate, perhaps a street/open track car. I'd venture to guess that wouldn't pass SCCA w2w tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mull Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 I'm not really uptodate on the rules for door bars, but what is the advantage to this design over this design? It would seem the first example would be easier to get in and out of, but not as strong. Is there a strength advantage to bending the door bars towards eachother and welding together? Door bar design seem to be good enough for Subaru Rally cars: http://www.rally.subaru.com/images/building/b26.jpg Also, we ain't done yet ... Still got more pieces to the puzzle. http://www.rally.subaru.com/images/b28.jpg This cage isn't being built to regulations since I won't use it to compete. It'll be used for autoX, trackdays, street racing, the occasional drag strip meet, etc. If it gets boring doing that - I'll upgrade to a CrMo cage built to regulations. Simple as that : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think you could make it better (SCCA legal?) for the side impact issue by running another bar from the middle of the door bars down to the rocker, or if you wanted you could run another bar right on top of the rocker, then run a bar from the middle of the existing bar down to it. I really like Steve Parmley's setup for door bars, that's probably the one that I'll copy: The only thing I think I might do differently is to have the front end of the top door bar be lower to make it easier to climb in and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 SCCA considers 2 bars X'ed together with a welded joint as ONE DOOR BAR... The "V" bent bars welded together and properly gusseted is considered TWO "2" bars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I really like Steve Parmley's setup for door bars' date=' that's probably the one that I'll copy: [img']http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2889&cat=500&ppuser=1154[/img] I'd also venture to guess that Steve's bars wouldn't pass SCCA w2w tech either. IMHO, this is all a bit overkill for a soloII car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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