Swap Kit Survey

[Teekass]

Is there a swap kit out there, which is "preferred" more than others?

 

I've done plenty of searching and reading, and for my application, it appears the benefits of the JTR, MSA or Scarab/Hooker are pretty minimal. I have a '77 2+2 that I want to put a carbureted sbc/turbo 350 trans into. It will be street driven, but more like weekend street-racing. From the reading I've done these are the considerations:

 

JTR:

Pros:

More rear weight % (but not much).

Slightly lower CG.

More room in front of engine for puller fan, water pump options.

Cons:

Cannot use long tube headers.

HEI distributor clearance (some have to notch the firewall).

Hood latch must be romoved to work on distributor.

Balancer size restrictions due to clearance problems.

Oil Pan ground clearance???

 

MSA:

Pros:

More distributor clearance than JTR so no need to remove hood latch.

Not as high and forward as Scarab/Hooker.

Can use long tube headers.

Can use factory size balancer.

Cons:

Poor instructions

I read one post where a guy said the th350 transmission mount that MSA makes for the kit, will NOT fit a 2+2 because the body is longer, so the mount point is in a slightly different location.

 

Scarab/Hooker:

Pros:

Works without modifications.

More oil pan ground clearance.

More distributor clearance.

Cons:

Harder steering with more weight over the front wheels.

More front weight % (but not much).

Higher CG.

Air filter clearance.

 

1. I've read many posts where people who had the JTR mounts were modifying them to move the engine a few inches forward. My thought was that the MSA mounts would accomplish this. I was basically sold on getting the JTR Manual for the info, and the MSA kit for the mounts....then I read about the 2+2 th350 trans mount issue.

 

2. I am a little concerned (maybe incorrectly) about the oil pan to ground clearance of the JTR kit (I think the MSA kit is slightly higher). I want to use a factory oil pan if possible.

 

3. I will be using an MSD billet distributor, I dont mind using block hugger headers and am not concerned with the weight/cg changes.

 

The sad part is that I have all of this info, and am no closer to picking a kit than I was a month ago . The JTR kit sounds impressive, but reading a post from the JTR guy (MikeJTR I think) where he said the primary reason for moving the engine back was to get the manual shifter to better fit the factory hole, makes me shy away since I'm using an automatic. (my impression is that a little firewall clearance was sacrificed for the benefit of shifter location....which is great if you are using a manual, but I'm not.....so I would rather have the wiggle room.) I still can't lean toward the MSA kit though, as I have read more than one post of people that say they will never buy another product from them......Decisions, decisions .

 

Oh yeah, some of the posts I've based this on were several years old, so the issues I listed above might not be a factor anymore (because of new products). If so, please feel free to point it out.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Bartman]

Maybe the MSA kit would be a good choice for you. I don't think the oil pan height is much of a consideration with the JTR setup, because the lowest part of the oil pan is still higher than the front crossmember.

 

It sounds like easy distributor access would be a plus for you, and like you said you don't need to worry about placement of the manual shifter. I think you would have better header selection as well.

 

As far as the TH350 mount, it would probably be fairly easy to make the necessary modifications for the 2 + 2, and you would probably have to do the same with the JTR setup.

 

Good Luck, and it looks like your doing your homework!

[m1noel]

You might also look at the JCI kit. While I am not installing a carbed sbc and don't have to worry about a distributor, I have been pretty impressed with their LS kit, and they have been really great to work with. I have purchased some stuff from JTR also and have been treated well there too.

[Teekass]

Thanks for the reply Bartman. I recognized your name from my information gathering earlier. Matter of fact, I looked at your website and bookmarked Thermal Tech Headers, thank you. Oh yeah, nice ride you've got!

 

Thats interesting what you said about with the JTR kit, the oil pan is still above the front crossmember. I read...the kit is lower than that one, this kit is more forward, this kit.....etc, etc.....and its difficult to visualize if the differences are really needed. I'm glad you pointed out that although the oil pan is lower, its not a problem......thanks again.

[WickedWild]

Awesome research man. Don't forget that you can always make your own mounts to fit exactly the way you want them.

[jakeshoe]

Teekass,

I used the JTR kit which is the only kit I have used for this swap.

My main reason for using the JTR kit was my experience with their S10 conversion manual several years ago.

Mike Knell writes excellent conversion manuals and overall does an excellent job. I tend to agree with his methods usually.

 

However on the Datsun Hybrid I would change the mounting method if doing it over. I would go slightly more forward. Even if only an inch.

If I were designing it I would go about 2" forward.

It would gain some much needed firewall space, stock hood latch, etc.

 

My biggest issue is the transmission dispstick on the Th350. I "clearanced" the firewall/floorpan area good and the dipstick is a PITA to do.

IF you use the JTR kit, just plan on buying a firewall mounted Lokar type dispstick. It will make life way easier.

Also be sure you slot the frame mount stands as much as possible.

Oil pan clearance isn't an issue on my car, IIRC it is about equal with the crossmember.

 

If I had a customer that wanted a V8 Z tomorrow, I would order the JTR parts, and use the mount plates as a template to make some that place the engine slightly more forward.

 

Either way, have fun

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEFGPZP3dK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TlbhmZZhNw

[240zV8]

Thats funny, I was just reading the JTR manual today and was thinking about these same things. The more u read it, if your not into racing or appearence of the engine bay, the scarab position won't really affect anything other than a slight notice of heavy steering at very low speeds like parking, and even the author of the manual said it's very slight. The scarab would be a easier swap for a novice like me, thats why I'm considering it. It has alot less little mod's and things you have to deal with along the way. The Scarab was used with mostly t350 trans anyway back when it was made right? It's only like a 1.3% wieght difference from the JTR and Scarab position, thats like moving the battery to the back (as the author said)

[buZy]

The MSA in my car.

Pros:

The motor is set back more like JTR but you can still use long hooker tube headers. Car is 1 inch lower than stock and still has plenty of room for a 7qt oil pan and headers on the street curbs. Stock hood and 14 inch air cleaner possible.

 

Cons:

Removal of oem latch housing and install replacement bracket which must use a small cap style dist.

 

As far as shifter hole locations and trans crossmembers I would expect them to be custom items with any kit conversion.

[Teekass]

You guys are all awesome.

Thanks alot.

[Guest Mike]

I bought my car with the V8 conversion already done. This one has a Scarab (or Hooker) kit and the engine is too far forward to add a puller electric fan and electric water pump (that has enough flow anyway) I could make a pusher fan work... or maybe two smaller puller fans... but I want the engine a bit farther back anyway. Like you, I'm using an automatic transmission.

 

So... I bought a second-hand (unused) JTR kit before I knew I can't use F-L headers with it:icon11: So... I'm making new mounts, using the JTR mounts as reference, to move the engine a couple inches forward. What a PITA:icon50:

 

I suggest you make double-damn sure to research this until you're double-damn positive regarding which kit best fits your needs. Otherwise, you'll be chasing your tail just like me:oops:

[deMideon]

Hmm... I used the JTR, no modifications beyond removing the hood latch. The engine drops right in, no adjusting no slots nessesary. Oil pan is a milodien with stock dimensions, no problem with clearence and it comes with baffles etc. It works great for me and I am happy with the shorty headers.

[QWKDTSN]

I vote JTR, screw the hood latch! There are no downsides!

[Guest Mike]

I guess I didn't make my point clear... I can't use FULL-LENGTH headers with the JTR kit.

[Teekass]

I suggest you make double-damn sure to research this until you're double-damn positive regarding which kit best fits your needs. Otherwise, you'll be chasing your tail just like me:oops:

 

Best advice I've heard in a long time bro !

 

Now that I've had time to step back from all the data collecting, and think about what I've learned....I think the most important thing for me is "options." I want the option to use long tube headers, the option to put a good puller electric fan and electric water pump, etc. I'm most likely going with the MSA kit, although I will check into the JCI kit that M1Noel mentioned. Heres the link if anyone wants it http://www.johnscars.com/zcar/zcar.htm .

 

Oh yeah, I have not yet looked for a place to buy the MSA kit. If anyone knows of a good deal out there (or anyone to aviod!), please let us know. I'll also post my findings.

[Guest Mike]

Yes, it sounds like the MSA kit fits your needs. I don't know about the JCI package. Good luck researching them and with the install. I didn't do my conversion but I've read that it's pretty simple with the JTR manual. I've flipped through mine and it does look fairly easy even for a novice like me.

[Guest Mike]

Here's a link to the MSA (Motor Sport Auto) kit... http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/PRC01

[Mikelly]

WOAH... TIME OUT... OH MY GAWD... Gang we've got a NEW MEMBER who has DONE HIS RESEARCH and used our VAST SEARCH ( ) function LONG BEFORE posting a SINGLE question...

 

TEEKASS, I must commend you on your efforts, and on doing exactly what we ask of our members here on this site... You sir have indeed been used in the admin forum as an EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of the kind of new member we're looking for... Excellent research, GREAT questions, and good comments.

 

Welcome, and ENJOY!!!

 

Mike

[Mikelly]

Best advice I've heard in a long time bro !

 

Now that I've had time to step back from all the data collecting, and think about what I've learned....I think the most important thing for me is "options." I want the option to use long tube headers, the option to put a good puller electric fan and electric water pump, etc. I'm most likely going with the MSA kit, although I will check into the JCI kit that M1Noel mentioned. Heres the link if anyone wants it http://www.johnscars.com/zcar/zcar.htm .

 

Oh yeah, I have not yet looked for a place to buy the MSA kit. If anyone knows of a good deal out there (or anyone to aviod!), please let us know. I'll also post my findings.

 

The MSA kit can be bought direct from MSA. I'm a fan of the JTR kit myself. I do recommend buying the JTR manual regardless of the kit you employ to install your SBC... Good luck!

 

Mikelly

[NCchris]

Teekass, I'm a newb too but on the subject of long tube headers, see:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=116345&highlight=s%26s+headers

I'm waiting for results. Don't know if your 2+2 makes a difference and aren't supposed to fit the 280, but a phonecall might be worth it. So far, this is my only hope to get long tube headers on my 260 with the JTR plates.

HTH

chris

[Teekass]

WOAH... TIME OUT... OH MY GAWD... Gang we've got a NEW MEMBER who has DONE HIS RESEARCH and used our VAST SEARCH ( ) function LONG BEFORE posting a SINGLE question...

 

TEEKASS, I must commend you on your efforts, and on doing exactly what we ask of our members here on this site... You sir have indeed been used in the admin forum as an EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of the kind of new member we're looking for... Excellent research, GREAT questions, and good comments.

 

Welcome, and ENJOY!!!

 

Mike

 

Hey, thanks for the kind words Mike. I'm just tryin' to set an example for the new....er guys, lol.