z_webslinger Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Hey ya'll, Just thought I'd share a recent experience that will hopefully avoid at least one person some trouble in the future. I just moved from Tampa, Fl to Waynesboro, VA. In order to get my Z up here, I unfortunately had to tow it. (U-haul didn't think my v6 Nissan Frontier truck could pull their auto transporter) Well... I checked the Z every time I stopped... just to make sure all looked ok. Half way up to VA, I noticed the right-front wheel looked oddly close to the fender well. I then saw that the tension compression rod had somehow come out of where it mounts to the frame. I have no idea how in the world the nut worked itself off of the rod, but it did. It kinda ticks me off that Nissan didn't think to at least put a cotter pin at the end of the threads. I'm amazed that it hadn't come off some other time... like when I'd last driven it in Florida. Sheesh. Also, a question to the gurus in the community: Would a loose or loosening nut on the T/C rod cause bad vibration under braking? I'm wondering if that nut has been working it's way off for a long time. I have new rotors, calipers, tires, ect... and I hadn't figured out what was causing my bad vibration and shudder when braking... which stops immediately upon release of the break pedal. One would think rotors or something, but they're new. Anyways, my purpose of the post is to warn others about those T/C rod nuts coming loose. I put a second set of them on as a backup... plus I'll be checking them often from now on. Any help on my question also would be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 The TC rod holds the wheel in place under braking. Having it loose definitely could have caused the vibration under braking. I'm pretty surprised that this happened and you didn't notice right away. There have been stories of people hitting the brakes and the wheel going all the way back and hitting the fenderwell and causing an accident. You got lucky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Also, the factory nut on the TC rod is a metal lock nut. If your's is/was not that type, someone repalced it at some point in your car's life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I'm interested in the details of how it came out. If it came out while in reverse under braking, then I would think it would have come all the way out and would have been immediately apparent that something was amiss (was it all the way out and suspended on the end?). If so, are the strut mounts on top (along with the rubber bushing on the inner pivot and sway bar linkage) rigid enough to prevent the wheel from rolling forward (due to caster) as the car sits on level ground, and collapsing completely? Just some general questions I've always wondered about when I see something like this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z_webslinger Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 Well guys, I replaced both sides today with the kit from MSA (the aluminum and nylon socket setup). The vibration under braking unfortunately was not addressed by getting the T/C rod bushings right. The Z was up on a car dolly when this happened. The front tires are strapped down and the rear tires drag. I think that it must have been loose all along and once I winched down the front and then made turns while pulling the whole setup with my truck, it released the pressure that was on that nut previously and allowed it to work itself the rest of the way off. We'll never know if it was original or not, because everything that used to be on the T/C rod was lost on the road. Once the nut was gone, the wheel moved drastically forward and pulled it out of where it was in the frame... hence tossing all but the very last washer. Thankfully, you only need one of the big fat washers per side with the new T/C bushing kit, so I was able to use the extra one from the driver's side for the side that had nothing. Any further ideas as to what I should check regarding the persistent shimmying under braking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Rotors would be the cause 99% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtsnlvrs Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Rotors would be the cause 99% of the time. I would say that rotors would be the cause 80% of the time, wheel alignment 16% of the time and road condition 1%... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z_webslinger Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 The rotors are 100% brand new and in perfect shape. I just can't figure out why it only happens under braking. The symptoms and the actual feeling you get when driving it are telling you "HEY, MY ROTORS ARE WARPED!", but I've checked them thouroughly and they are perfect. Would the need of an allignment really make such a dramatic vibration under braking? Could a steering rack assembly have anything awry that would/could cause this?? I dunno... just wondering out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONGO510 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 You checked the rotors with a dial indicator? I have seen lots of new rotors that were warped and had to be turned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Loose ball joints, tie rods and worn steering knuckles are often culprit as well. Check it all and check it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 New rotors is not a gaurantee of straight, non-lumpy rotors. Take it from a first hand experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z_webslinger Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 Also worth mentioning: When I brake and don't downshift, the vibration is the heaviest. (It jitters the steering wheel too) Now...when I downshift AND brake simultaneously, there's almost NO vibration at all. Just thought I'd throw that in there. Yet another reason I'm a little apprehensive to just assume rotors. I am going to have them checked with a dial indicator per suggestion above, but something tells me they'll check out ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 If you were driving around with a loose TC rod you might have uneven wear on the tires. Check the surface for uneven wear, then rotate and balance the wheels. What you really need to do is go over the entire suspension, front and back, checking for worn parts. Retorque every nut and bolt to factory specs and get the front end aligned. Check the rear alignment also. Following all that, steering wheel shakes while braking can be caused by "warped" rotors. BUT what people call warped rotors is often the result of not properly beding the brake pads. An uneven layer of brake pad material gets depositied on the rotors causing some parts to be "stickier" than others. This causes an oscillation in braking with the corresponding vibration. If you do all of the above and still get shakes, then turn the rotors (or replace them), put on new pads then do a search for the proper brake pad beding procedure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z_webslinger Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 Tires are brand new Sumitomos, and only have maybe 100 miles on them. I had checked them just for kicks and they also appear perfect. I have the Toyota 4x4 brakes. I'm not sure of what "beding" the brake pads entails. I've looked over the suspension, but honestly, I'm not going to say I know exactly what I'm looking for other than something loose or apparent. I've had my wife turn the wheel left/right while I look for issues, but I've not found anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Good point about the pads. An old timers trick for this (I'm not saying this is right, but it does work) is to get up to speed on the highway and ride the brakes for a few seconds, let off for a minutes then ride them again and do it until they even out and the shaking should stop unless you warp the rotors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Probably not relevent (I hope) but sumitomo has been sued many times for tire defects. This is a little info from one of the cases. In its case against Sumitomo and Dunlop, the plaintiffs contended that internal defects in the tire ultimately caused the blow out. The wire cord construction of the Dunlop SP4N tire allowed moisture to migrate throughout the tire's steel belts which lead to internal rusting of the tire. Dunlop internal records indicated that they were aware of this design defect for a year and a half prior to the manufacture of this particular tire. Dunlop internal records also revealed claims for blow outs caused by internal rusting of steel belts in similar tires. No consumer warnings were ever issued by Sumitomo or Dunlop to alert potential purchasers or tire owners of the possibility of internal rusting and subsequent rupturing of SP4N tires. "The tire company knew about the internal rust problems associated with this particular tire and made no effort to alert the consumer. Our client and his family have suffered severely and irreparably because of their negligence," stated Don Fountain when the settlement was reached. The tire in question was also warranted for the useful life of the tread irrespective of the chronological age of the tire itself. The tires on the MG were examined following the accident and, while ten years old, were found to have legal and sufficient tread depth to remain under the company warranty. Sumitomo Rubber Industries Limited of Japan and its distributor Dunlop Tire Corporation have agreed to pay $4.5 million with the remainder of the $4.9 million settlement to be paid by the owners of the MG and the owner of the semi tractor/trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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