new Z car, need frame rails

[dimsum]

Hi!

 

I just bought my first 240Z and am starting to realize that it is either going to be a great project or a really bad mistake.

 

Going into the project, I knew I needed to replace the engine and was in the process of removing the old one. However, when I jacked the car up, I found out the passenger side frame rail is rusted. I was thinking about using either the baddogparts or zedd findings frame rails and floor pans to replace my rusted ones.

 

I'm assuming I should get the frame rails and floor pans replaced before I do my engine work.

 

I'm in San Jose and was wondering if anybody could recommend a good welder or shop to do this work? Also, am I in over my head? What is the best way to clean off and prep the car for this work to get done?

 

Thanks in advance.

[auxilary]

z car garage is in san jose, but they're pretty booked. might want to give them a call and find out

 

stay away from dando's automotive.

[Roostmonkey]

I'd go with the Zedfindings pans and the Baddog rails...best of both worlds

[DavyZ]

I'd go with the Zedfindings pans and the Baddog rails...best of both worlds

 

I would too, but he still needs a shop to weld them in. Aux gave good advice.

 

Davy

[dimsum]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have been looking at the pictures of both the Zeddfindings rails and the Baddog rails, trying to figure out what the differences are between the two.

 

I'll give Z Car Garage a call this week and see if they can do it.

 

I've been talking to some auto body shops. Some are interested, some are reluctant, but most are expensive. Grrr.

[Roostmonkey]

The Baddogs are beefier...either way, get the parts and then go to a shop.If a body shop has to make these parts,they will cost alot more.

[gnosez]

The BDP rails are 2-3 times thicker than the Zeddfindings one. That said I have the Zeddfindings floor pans in my 240. None better. You can buy the floors separate. Full length rails also can be purchased with the optional rear section (now in left and right side versions).

[dimsum]

I finally grabbed pictures of the main rust spots on my Z. Just a warning: they're not pretty.

 

Please feel free to give me your opinions on this project.

 

 

This is all on the passenger side.

 

I'm not sure if the previous owner drove over something or not, but it looks like the bottom of the car hit something hard.

 

 

And then there are these two rust spots that aren't on the floor pans or frame rails.

 

Here's a closer look.

 

This is what I get to look forward to for the next few months. Yay.

[Careless]

your main concern should be the rockers and the point at which the transmission tunnel meets the floor pan.

 

i know it's curved, but if it's solid metal in or around the lower half of the curve, making a flat floor with new frame rails would actually be a GOOD DECISION, and would be fun.

 

just take your time. no one said restoring or rebuilding cars was easy.

 

to be honest, even if i had a Z with a perfectly good body, I'd end up cutting the frame rails off the floor pan and welding in something a little beefier anyways. that's just me though =)

 

take some measurements and fab up some TC rod mounts while you're at it.

 

my floor isnt any better off than yours is.

 

 

I would repair it, but the rear quarters on my car had been horribly replaced and the body lines aren't original, so I'm now trying to find another chassis, (which i think i've located). I'll basically be putting as many 280 parts onto a 260 that I can possibly use. when the 260 is bought, it will have already been sandblasted (provided i get the one i found just recently), so it will cost roughly the same amount of money that the patch panels on the 280z would cost me, not including time and effort to install them, after the hackjob that has to be cut off to even begin to think about putting things back together

 

I really wish it didn't happen this way for me, as I want a car that's never been hit so that it retains as close to original lines as possible. that's why i like this car.

but if your car was never hit, you're in luck. everyone goes through the floor repair thing sooner or later. just prep up by reading, then get the required materials.

 

 

if you don't want your car, i'll take it from you =)

[dimsum]

Careless, thanks for the encouragement. I'm still very excited about this project, dispite the unexpected rust.

 

I have to agree that even if the car was in better condition, I would want to improve the frame rails and floor pans.

 

Right now, my restoration plan looks like this:

 

1. Remove everything from chassis.

2. Prep for welding.

3. Repair rust and weld on frame rails and floor boards.

4. Spot weld chassis.

5. Paint.

6. Re-install engine, drivetrain, and suspension.

7. Restore interior.

[Careless]

no worries man.

 

you're lucky you arent "uncovering a history of bad body work" like i am (look for the thread with the same title, im posting pics tonight)

 

my car was given to me by a widower, and sometimes i feel that theres someone kicking me from behind telling me to just deal with what i have and fix it the right way. so i've made up my mind and said that's what im going to do.

 

im going to restore this car, and bring it back to life.

 

=)

 

make yourself a promise if it helps. and you have an exhaust.

 

you > me.

[Careless]

and you have an exhaust.

 

you > me.

 

 

 

to clarify... the day i started my car for the first time (after not being started for 25 years), I had revved the ♥♥♥♥ out of it because of the sheer joy and amazement of what 2 dollars in o-rings can do to an oil-pump, that the thing threw itself off my car.

 

so despite what is plainly visible in the picture, i have no exhaust ON the car.

[Mikelly]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have been looking at the pictures of both the Zeddfindings rails and the Baddog rails, trying to figure out what the differences are between the two.

 

I'll give Z Car Garage a call this week and see if they can do it.

 

I've been talking to some auto body shops. Some are interested, some are reluctant, but most are expensive. Grrr.

 

ZeddFindings makes a great floor pan, But make no bones about it. The BAd Dog rails are the best solution you can have for adding strength and cleaning up the understide of the car. They are truly a nice piece and I'd recommend them over anything short of the Pparaska solid boxed rail, which would be very expensive to have a shop do.

 

Judging by the looks of thpse pics, regardless which path you choose, you're gonna have several thousand dollars in repairs, and I'd personally not drive that car until the rust in the rails and pans is gone... I've seen worse rust damage, but you're gonna have a lot of labor in replacing all that bad metal.

 

Mike

[Careless]

ZeddFindings makes a great floor pan, But make no bones about it. The BAd Dog rails are the best solution you can have for adding strength and cleaning up the understide of the car. They are truly a nice piece and I'd recommend them over anything short of the Pparaska solid boxed rail, which would be very expensive to have a shop do.

 

Judging by the looks of thpse pics, regardless which path you choose, you're gonna have several thousand dollars in repairs, and I'd personally not drive that car until the rust in the rails and pans is gone... I've seen worse rust damage, but you're gonna have a lot of labor in replacing all that bad metal.

 

Mike

 

I'm going the route of Pparaska rails, and I'll be making them myself using some metal from a surplus place that I'm going to go to next saturday.

 

I know there's a lot of work involved, but hey, like i said... no one said it was easy, and it's a project car.

 

If I do it myself, It will not cost that much. I have all the neccessary tools to do the job, and have access to the tools in which I do not own myself, so I'm up for the task =)

[Mikelly]

I'm going the route of Pparaska rails, and I'll be making them myself using some metal from a surplus place that I'm going to go to next saturday.

 

I know there's a lot of work involved, but hey, like i said... no one said it was easy, and it's a project car.

 

If I do it myself, It will not cost that much. I have all the neccessary tools to do the job, and have access to the tools in which I do not own myself, so I'm up for the task =)

 

 

That's the route we took on my zcar as well, and is the strongest option out there... However, not many people are skilled enough to do fabrication at that level... And if you can't, it gets really pricey!

 

Mike

[Paz8]

That damage is caused by some jerk mechanic lifting that Z on the rails, even with non rusty rails they will be damaged. The rails are actually "floor supports" not frame rails. I replaced the floor pans and floor supports in my ZX by myself, it's not rocket sceince but takes up alot of time. Now, if I take the car somewhere where I know it needs to be on a lift I tell them it can be lifted only from the front and rear crossmembers only, which is a pain, but that's how I do it myself when I work on the car. This is a common problem with Z cars.

[dimsum]

That damage is caused by some jerk mechanic lifting that Z on the rails, even with non rusty rails they will be damaged. The rails are actually "floor supports" not frame rails.

 

That makes a lot of sense. The rear section of the rails aren't supported very well at all.

 

I just put an order in for some BadDog frame rails and Zeddfindings floor pans. Thanks to everybody for the recommendations. I think they are my best option since I don't have experience with metal work. I'm excited to get them in. My bank account, however, is not looking forward to it.

[LLave]

That damage is caused by some jerk mechanic lifting that Z on the rails, even with non rusty rails they will be damaged. The rails are actually "floor supports" not frame rails. I replaced the floor pans and floor supports in my ZX by myself, it's not rocket sceince but takes up alot of time. Now, if I take the car somewhere where I know it needs to be on a lift I tell them it can be lifted only from the front and rear crossmembers only, which is a pain, but that's how I do it myself when I work on the car. This is a common problem with Z cars.

 

This might be a stupid question but, you could lift it by the rockers on a chasiss lift, yeah?

[Paz8]

Yea, I think the Z car jack goes under the rocker panels to lift the car, I'm a little concerned about doing it that way just incase something went wrong, wouldn't want to dent in the rocker panels on the exterior.

[Careless]

That's the route we took on my zcar as well, and is the strongest option out there... However, not many people are skilled enough to do fabrication at that level... And if you can't, it gets really pricey!

 

Mike

 

well i think it takes a person with some real common sense, and a mind that knows when to hand over the remaining work to someone else.

 

I'm not a good welder by any means, so I think tack welds are as far as I will get.

 

I can do wonders with a cut-off wheel. Heck, people think I get my stuff water-jet cut or CNC'd!

 

I set high standards in my own work, within reason and limitations of the tools I possess, and am trained or have learned to use. So you're right about it getting costly if you don't know what you're doing.

 

I may even just do the welding myself because this is a project car, and I don't trust many people more than I trust myself. God knows how many time's I've been wronged by people who were there to "help"... or so it seemed.

 

Im going to try and make a sort of torque box, on the end of the Pp rails, so that I can use the standard mounting points for the S14 subframe that's going in my car. This way I can use poly bushings all around, rather than cutting off the forward mounts and welding in a crush-resistant metal dowel to hold all the weight and forces that will be going through it.

 

That's going to be the main difference in my rails, and I hope it works out.

 

If anything, people over 6'5 won't be able to sit well in my car.

which sucks, because I Like tall, long-legged women. =(