300ZX Z31 vs Supra MKIII

[Pete84]

I'll probably be burned to crisp for this, but how do the two compare? There aren't many good condition 300ZX turbos around here, the good ones command prices equal to or a bit above that of nicely maintained, ie new headgaskets, belts, etc, MKIII Supras.

The 7MGTE likes to blow its stock head gasket, besides that the two seem very similiar.

[Sparks280zt]

Right out of the box I think a 87-89 z31 looks alot better. I have an 87 turbo that I daily drive and I like it alot. The supra is heavier than the z31 by a bit and the vg30et is pretty much bullet proof and has a good track record. Just change the timing belt and you should be good, plus the turbo motors respond well to mods.

[Pete84]

I live up several thousand feet, ~3,000, and it is a fairly steep and steady climb.

From what I've gathered the 7GMTE and the VG30ET have similiar mid-range torque, but how about fuel consumption? Off of boost, will one suck more gas down in an appreciable ammount?

[Sparks280zt]

I drive my 300 pretty spirited and i still manage mid to high 20s on the highway, low 20s around town, this is at 1600 ft above sea level.

[Pete84]

That is alot better mileage than what I've heard the 300ZX-T gets. I heard mid- to low-twenties.

 

Did some reading over on http://www.supramania.com/, a MKIII site, and it seems that there are more reliability issues with the 7MGTE. Heat, headgasket -what a pain to have to get a metal headgasket and the machining for it.

 

Issue closed in my mind

[m1ghtymaxXx]

I was looking to buy an ma7o supra before i got my z. The 7mgte is pretty tough with a metal headgasket and properly torqued arp studs, however even then, i wouldn't expect it to last all that long. 20 psi seem attainable on a stock bottom end, but that would require a new turbo, as the stock one overspins at about 15-16 psi or so ifrc. Once the headgasket blows though, its very likely to develope rod knock. Be weary, cause if someone drove there supra with a bhg (yeah, a commonly used acronym for blown head gasket on the supea forums), there a good chance the motor needs to be rebuilt.

 

Styling is subjective, but i prefer the sleek look of the ma70 to a z31.

 

 

Personally i would take mkIII supra over a z31, but thats just me.

[Hartspank]

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/300zx++supra/0/88131593-0880-48e2-8ad8-98690128f4a1.htm

does this help?

[m1ghtymaxXx]

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/300zx++supra/0/88131593-0880-48e2-8ad8-98690128f4a1.htm

does this help?

 

prolly not, since a jza80 supra and a 300zx z32 are different ball games

[m1ghtymaxXx]

edit: after watching that vid, that guy pisses me off. raggin on I-6's in general is one thing, but ragging on the 2jz?

 

I'd say the best japanese 6 cyls were inline, not v configuration. Example 2jz and rb series.

[slownrusty]

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/300zx++supra/0/88131593-0880-48e2-8ad8-98690128f4a1.htm

does this help?

 

 

Who is that freakin' idiot...! Urrrrr....that video bothered me...

 

Yasin

[Pete84]

ENGINE Q'S

head gasket on the 7MGTE aside, what issues are there?

fuel consumption: how do they compare?

I climb up ~3,000 ft fairly quickly, much difference in mid-range torque to push the weight up the climb?

 

The VG30ET seems to be regarded as a very reliable motor stock with stock internals going up to 450+hp. How about the 7MGTE? Might not use all the opportunity right away, but it is nice to have.

 

CHASIS Q'S

Weight difference - the Supra is heavier but by how much?

Handling - with new shocks, lowering springs, some good tires, how do they compare?

 

Styling isn't to big of an issue with me, though the not-fully-closed-while-closed headlights on the Z31 aren't my favorite.

 

Any answers will be appreciated!

 

Oh yes, I've been doing digging for an affordable, NOT a 240SX, RWD coupe, S12 200SX, Mitsu Starion, seem a bit too small. S12 needs a swap for some performance, and the Starion's TBI injection didn't get me going.

What might I have missed?

[Cal Poly Zmanaustin]

I am still wondering who this guy is? The guy gives a very favorable endorsement to the Z32 and at the end i am asking myself "okay, who is it?".

[savageskaterkid]

ENGINE Q'S

head gasket on the 7MGTE aside, what issues are there?

fuel consumption: how do they compare?

I climb up ~3,000 ft fairly quickly, much difference in mid-range torque to push the weight up the climb?

 

The VG30ET seems to be regarded as a very reliable motor stock with stock internals going up to 450+hp. How about the 7MGTE? Might not use all the opportunity right away, but it is nice to have.

 

CHASIS Q'S

Weight difference - the Supra is heavier but by how much?

Handling - with new shocks, lowering springs, some good tires, how do they compare?

 

Styling isn't to big of an issue with me, though the not-fully-closed-while-closed headlights on the Z31 aren't my favorite.

 

Any answers will be appreciated!

 

Oh yes, I've been doing digging for an affordable, NOT a 240SX, RWD coupe, S12 200SX, Mitsu Starion, seem a bit too small. S12 needs a swap for some performance, and the Starion's TBI injection didn't get me going.

What might I have missed?

 

The Ma70 Supras are fun cars, a bit on the fat side, but fun none the less. The head gasket problem was mainly due to a the head bolts being torqued fairly low. I think it was something like 50ft/lb, but I don't remember. I just finished helping a friend on his head gasket-he used ARP studs and torqued them to 87 ft/lbs. Alot of Supra guys retorque the stock bolts with the stock gasket anywhere from 70-120ft/lbs with great results. It wasn't that big a deal either, it was just a bit time consuming, the hardest part is the wiring. And that is pretty idiot proof-as in, there is only one set of red 3 pin connectors, and 1 set of blue 4 pin connectors......IDIOT PROOF.

[m1ghtymaxXx]

Here is the supra i almost bought last summer:

 

 

 

better looking that a z31 i think. However i'm glad i never bought it, as 2 weeks after the deal fell through, he turned the boost up one more psi to 17, and the motor blew sky high. Started with a blown head gasket, then rod knock, the cracked head and exhaust manifold.

[majik16106]

ask guys like clifton and 2fiddy on this forum about 7m's.

 

you have to remember.. your buying a car thats approaching 20 years old. its most likely going to have well over 100k miles on it. the motors arent going to be in the best of shape.. the reason there is so much bhg and bearing failure on places like SF is because most of the people start running 16-17psi with upgraded turbos with safc fuel tunes on 120k mile motors with stock hg and years of bearing wear. its going to break. a 7mgte with a new hg, arp studs and some new rod bearings will stand up to 500rwhp on stock pistons and rods no problem as long as the tune is good. and it will last a long time. i have buddies who have put 40-50-60k miles on 400+rwhp they beat up and have had ZERO motor problems. but they made sure the engine was up to par first.. and they tune the car fairly regularly to make sure its running correctly. its all about tuning and maintence.

[wingman]

coming from a guy who's owned two MA70's, one turbo and one N/A, I can say I prefer the supra over my 88T.

 

handling isn't really something you can compare between them. They both handle pretty well, but I preferred the feel of the double wishbone setup of the MA70. Brakes were also MUCH better, I can fade the Z's brakes after one hard stop compared to several in the MA70.

 

The MA70 is also a bit more tame at high speeds and in oversteer situations, the difference in wheelbase really shows itself when your getting sideways (whether you wanted to or not).

 

as far as engines, I'm pretty impressed with the VG30, but it's bone stock on mine. A stock 7M with a properly torqued head would probably be just as reliable. The reason you hear about so many 7M failures is due to ignorance on the owners part. MA70 owners are the cheapest, most ghetto people I've ever seen when it comes to upgrades, the question with them is never "what's the best for my situation" it's always "what's the cheapest thing that will barely get me by?". As far as stock for stock, I'd trust a 7M up to about 525hp before you start running into major stress issues with the rotating assembly.

 

when it comes down to it, if I were to build an all out performance car, I'd probably go with the MA70. For a street car though, it's all preferance. Just keep up on maintenence and both the 7M and VG30 will last a long time.

[Pete84]

coming from a guy who's owned two MA70's, one turbo and one N/A, I can say I prefer the supra over my 88T.

 

handling isn't really something you can compare between them. They both handle pretty well, but I preferred the feel of the double wishbone setup of the MA70. Brakes were also MUCH better, I can fade the Z's brakes after one hard stop compared to several in the MA70.

 

The MA70 is also a bit more tame at high speeds and in oversteer situations, the difference in wheelbase really shows itself when your getting sideways (whether you wanted to or not).

 

as far as engines, I'm pretty impressed with the VG30, but it's bone stock on mine. A stock 7M with a properly torqued head would probably be just as reliable. The reason you hear about so many 7M failures is due to ignorance on the owners part. MA70 owners are the cheapest, most ghetto people I've ever seen when it comes to upgrades, the question with them is never "what's the best for my situation" it's always "what's the cheapest thing that will barely get me by?". As far as stock for stock, I'd trust a 7M up to about 525hp before you start running into major stress issues with the rotating assembly.

 

when it comes down to it, if I were to build an all out performance car, I'd probably go with the MA70. For a street car though, it's all preferance. Just keep up on maintenence and both the 7M and VG30 will last a long time.

 

Thanks for the comparison, it was what I was looking for. Someone who has owned both

 

Have to say that I'd ideally prefere a targa MA70 turbo over a Z31 turbo, but they run 1.5-2 thousand more in the SF bay area, the only market of size. There are a few Z31 T's around for 1500-2500, and I might bite on one of those, depending on time and money. Never have both

[majik16106]

if you prefer the supra.. get the supra.. trust me. you dont want to look back in a few months and wish you had just waited and spend the extra 2g's. especially when you run into some nice ones at a car show. awhile ago i had to decide between building the old z and buying another supra.. had to pick one to build first so i picked my first love... a few months ago i bought another mk3. and i couldnt be happier. so hopefully now with room and money.. i will be able to dump lots of money into the z this winter. for me i knew the z would be more race car.. the supra more street car.. and i love that i can drive the supra everyday while i work on the z. although i have my audi to drive everyday.. anyway.. you get the point. although maybe im a bad example cuz there is also the tr4a in the garage.. plus the 440 on the stand.. and the chevy small block im picking up next week... oh god..

[Matt K]

You could always pick up a Supra with a bad engine for cheap (there's plenty out there!) and rebuild it the right way or swap in a 1JZGTE from the JDM counterpart...

 

I'm a big fan of the 1JZ due to it's relative low cost & bulletproof nature (save for the ceramic ball bearing turbos-quick spool but don't last). When I lived in Okinawa, stock bolt-on 1JZ's were able to walk away from most other Japanese sports cars (non GTR Skylines, RX7s, 180SX/Silvia) by the end of the race. A little slower off the line due to the heavier body, but it didn't matter after ~ 1/8 mile.

[Devil-Z]

"that guy," Is John Morton. The Famous race car driver for BRE and later Nissan's IMSA Z32 team.