The next wind tunnel session- suggestions

[Guest 280ZForce]

what about different size vortex generators? How do we know these are the best suited?

 

Where can we get these vortex generators you guys used and how much do they cost?

[JIM73240Z]

i bought mine from air tab

 

http://www.airtab.com/

 

less than $50 for 8 generators to fit across the top of the roof in front of the hatch. have not installed yet.

 

here are some pics

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/jim73240z/IMG_2155.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/jim73240z/IMG_2158.jpg

 

jimbo

[TitaniumZ]

$20.00 plus shipping.EBAY

[rags]

Roddy,

 

I have a question about your car. Have you tested what effect a larger splitter at the bottom of the airdam would have on downforce? Something that would extend beyond the leading edge of the hood. My thinking is if you stood the car on end with the front of the car pointing upward. If the rad support was a sealed and you filled the front of the car with a liquid, the liquid would spill out over the shorter side, which normally is not the hood, and go under the car. To have the spill go over the hood the splitter would have to stick out past the hood. I'm thinking it has to be much more complex than this because it just seems too simple.

 

Joe

[JMortensen]

i bought mine from air tab

 

http://www.airtab.com/

 

less than $50 for 8 generators to fit across the top of the roof in front of the hatch. have not installed yet.

 

here are some pics

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/jim73240z/IMG_2155.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/jim73240z/IMG_2158.jpg

 

jimbo

I still think those are fairly huge compared to the type used in the test. Might be something for the next run, to see what the net drag is and if one is better than the other...

[TitaniumZ]

Rags,

I see your point about spilling water out of my front end.Extending the splitter would increase downforce.Like everything,there is a balance to be reached.Another foot would really mash that thing down.Of course it would look like S..T.Also the further a splitter protrudes,the more pitch sensitive it becomes.That could really upset the apple cart!As for making splitters for our cars,using a flat piece of 0.080 aluminum works,but is really not the best.Ideally the bottom should have a "belly".Just another wing;right?Composites are better suited to this application.Once again;another bolt on part that can be as complex as your time,talent,and budget allow.

[scott19]

I'd like to see some more research into alleviating the suction of exhaust fumes into the cabin (moving the air pocket from directly behind the car). From a health perspective, that seems kinda important.

we need to keep all the brain cells we can!

[007max]

Are there any plans to include a 280 ZX in the next series of tests?

 

I, as other 280 ZX owners, am interested to see how our cars compare to the first gen Z's in terms of aerodynamics. I am sure that the same types of modifications that were tested on the s30 chassis cars would have much the same effect on s s130 chassis car, but it would be interesting to see the difference in baseline #s between the two.

[Moridin]

Rags,

I see your point about spilling water out of my front end.Extending the splitter would increase downforce.Like everything,there is a balance to be reached.Another foot would really mash that thing down.Of course it would look like S..T.Also the further a splitter protrudes,the more pitch sensitive it becomes.That could really upset the apple cart!As for making splitters for our cars,using a flat piece of 0.080 aluminum works,but is really not the best.Ideally the bottom should have a "belly".Just another wing;right?Composites are better suited to this application.Once again;another bolt on part that can be as complex as your time,talent,and budget allow.

 

For the budget conscious, wouldn't honeycomb aluminum panels be just as good with a slight sacrifice in weight? It should also be a bit better suited to those "off-line" excursions so many people like to take in terms of longevity.

[TitaniumZ]

Aluminum honeycomb panels are great for splitters.You just have to cap/radius the cut edges.They will be flat just like the sheet aluminum.The reason for the composite solution was the ability to form a "belly" along the bottom while keeping the top flat.

[preith]

Hey guys, thought I’d finally chime in, better late than never right? Anyways, outstanding effort!

 

In regards too all of the discussion on the test results thread about a full radiator air box, I agree with Jon and would really like to see a test done with it. I see Bob Smith’s point of view, but IMO because of the radiator’s massive air resistance, a full box best prevents unwanted air from passing through other holes, or beneath the hood, and through the underside the car; on side note also aids cooling. As with Jon said, the sharp drop in drag as soon as the bottom of the air dam was sealed off is testimony. I also feel the air dam tested probably isn’t as “clean†as the older version MSA sold, which jmark mentioned in the other thread as well, and would have much preferred the headlight covers tested after a more desirable airdam/grill was installed.

 

Here are some pics of my setup. I don’t feel it’s very elaborate, though a bit time consuming to fabricate. The temp has never risen above 180 under road racing conditions. Even though oil temps have never been an issue either, after reading what bjhines posted, I do plan on adding an additional duct within the air box for the cooler

 

[Guest TeamNissan]

I really like that set up but I wonder as I think J mentioned, whould the oil cooler OR IC in its place starve for air as it would go around it and not through in rt to the radiator?

[jt1]

Preith, that's some nice workmanship. Sweet car.

 

John

[NuttyforNissan]

Do you have the underside of the motor sealed off so as all air goes out through the hood?

[preith]

jt1 thanks for the compliment.

 

TeamNissan, per my original post:

Even though oil temps have never been an issue either, after reading what bjhines posted, I do plan on adding an additional duct within the air box for the cooler

 

NuttyforNissan, that question baffles me a bit. First off,where is the air going to go if the underside of the motor is sealed off? As already stated, a cowl hood taps into the pressure in front of the windsheild, air does not flow out. The only alternative I can see is a top vented duct such as BlueOvalZs which is not permissable with the rules, this is already a stretch.

[JMortensen]

preith, why not just move the oil cooler so that it is up against the radiator? I guess I understand why people want everything to have it's own duct and airflow, but it seems that there still should be plenty of airflow to cool the engine and it seems a lot easier than making a new duct. I love what you've done though. It seems almost ideal to me. Maybe the opening in front is a little big. Have you ever tried taping part of it off to see the difference? Might be a simple solution rather than rebuilding all the ducting.

 

I would think the same thing applies to all the intercooled turbo guys. Just move the cooler up to the rad, rather than trying to design a new duct. Should make what you have a lot more efficient, even though it's up against the "hot" radiator.

[tube80z]

 

Here are some pics of my setup. I don’t feel it’s very elaborate, though a bit time consuming to fabricate. The temp has never risen above 180 under road racing conditions. Even though oil temps have never been an issue either, after reading what bjhines posted, I do plan on adding an additional duct within the air box for the cooler

 

 

Nice work Phil! For the oil cooler why could you move it the left side of your box and let it vent out the core support? Sort of a bookmarked type arrangement. I've seen this one on a number of racing cars over the years where they have a central duct.

 

Cary

[tube80z]

First off,where is the air going to go if the underside of the motor is sealed off? As already stated, a cowl hood taps into the pressure in front of the windsheild, air does not flow out. The only alternative I can see is a top vented duct such as BlueOvalZs which is not permissable with the rules, this is already a stretch.

 

Can you vent into the fenders? GT rules and prepared autocross rules allowed this but I couldn't add the vents into the hood that have been talked about.

 

Cary

[Mikelly]

This would have to be a separate effort all together. You'd have to start with a bunch of ZXs and approach it similarly to how we did with the testing in the initial write up... That would have to be done by others who are more familiar with the ZX platform. I've never owned one and don't intend to.

 

Mike

 

Are there any plans to include a 280 ZX in the next series of tests?

 

I, as other 280 ZX owners, am interested to see how our cars compare to the first gen Z's in terms of aerodynamics. I am sure that the same types of modifications that were tested on the s30 chassis cars would have much the same effect on s s130 chassis car, but it would be interesting to see the difference in baseline #s between the two.

[preith]

preith, why not just move the oil cooler so that it is up against the radiator? I guess I understand why people want everything to have it's own duct and airflow, but it seems that there still should be plenty of airflow to cool the engine and it seems a lot easier than making a new duct. I love what you've done though. It seems almost ideal to me. Maybe the opening in front is a little big. Have you ever tried taping part of it off to see the difference? Might be a simple solution rather than rebuilding all the ducting.

 

I could move the cooler back I suppose, and I've thought of Cary's solution too, but the additional duct I had in mind will probably only take me about an hour to fabricate. I'm going to stubbornly stick with that; plus it will look cooler too (no pun intended)

 

As for the grill size, yes, I find it a bit humorous, I've seeled off about 50% the area and it's still too big! The entire project was really an exercise of engineering vs aesthetics; it flowed with the lines of the car better this way. I have not taped anything off yet except for the brake ducts.

 

Can you vent into the fenders? GT rules and prepared autocross rules allowed this but I couldn't add the vents into the hood that have been talked about.

Cary

 

After seeing the SDI car I had thoughts of doing something like that, I may be able to get away with it in vintage, but would rather not try. In W2W GT2, any additional fender vents are strictly prohibited. I've already removed the inner fender brace as an attempt to help aleviate air pressures already there and am afraid any inner fender holes will only compound the problem. I've always wanted to louver the top of some steel fenders in the same spot as big boys do. It would look really good and be functional too, but again, not legal