Exotic "SOUNDING", high revving V8! Read "ENTIRE" thread before posting!!!

[datsunmike]

A lot of info can be found here on this car. A really cool build to check out, and a lot of pictures.

 

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1818351

 

The interesting part is that this car does not have 180 degree headers. After reading the updates it seems that the car has kooks headers which merge into a single pipe. It seems that perhaps if someone would be willing to experiment a bit with 180 degree headers and different muffler combos, it could be possible to get really close the the high pitched sound of flat cranks.

[Guest Bassett]

I am new here, but have been watching this thread for a while. The disclaimer is that I think you all are crazy, but that's fine. Designing a crankshaft is not an easy task. It is likely that your first few attempts will fail, probably spectacularly. This isn't meant as a slam, just a warning. Just because a crank cost X for a forging doesn't mean that the crank will cost you X once it's in the car and running. At any rate, borrowing from stuff that's already designed is a good way to start, although ferrari cranks don't often end up in my local boneyard. I started thinking about where to find any single plane V type crankshaft that could be modeled and reshaped for the application. I came across a few interesting leads. Mercruiser sold a few different engines that were basically a V8 Chevy or Ford that had been cut in half. I am assuming (not much information out there - they are not popular with boaters) that they used a single plane crank as nearly every four cylinder is. If so, you have the potential for a single plane crank meant for a V8 engine. All that you would need to do at that point is add the necessary journals for the other cylinder bank. I haven't exhaustively searched, but try:

http://www.turboford.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000018;p=1

and

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256713&highlight=mercruiser

Then there was sprint car following for the same type of engine. Any four cylinder sprint car (even modern day) is essentially a V8 cut in half. Mopar and Chevy both have recently used them. Again, I don't know if they are single plane or not, but if so, this could save you a lot of hassle. Check these guys out as they seem to be the only 'public' source of info for the innards of these engines.

http://www.kansasracingproducts.com/Machinist_Notes.html

 

-Brian

[3star2nr]

I think this might do the trick if your looking for a crazy formula one sound.

 

its not turbo'd buuut it has 8 individual throttle bodies !

 

Seconded!

 

Raise the compression up, that will give it the high pitched scream

[judas_light]

It'd be badass if you finally get the sound you're looking for and take it a step further by fabbing up your own variable vavle timing to go with it.

[Gollum]

It'd be badass if you finally get the sound you're looking for and take it a step further by fabbing up your own variable vavle timing to go with it.

 

Variable valve timing wouldn't do anything for sound really. The reason why a VVT engine sounds "meaner" is because it's hitting a more agressive cam. The same engine without VVT with a cam as agressive as the high RPM lobe on the VVT engine would sound identical at high RPM. The reason for a VTEC engine to have that sound change just shows how mild the lower cam profile is.

 

That's just a short explanation. Hopefully you get what I'm saying.

[CinNAMmon]

but an engine wihtout any cam control but has a wild cam will have poor idle and economy.

[Filmjay]

In my researching for my GTO conversion, I've found a US source for Ferrari engines. Long blocks, full engines, used, new, you name it. Though the hard part would be adapting the newer engines to FR, as they're all RR/MR

 

But, engine parts for the newer Ferrari's (82 and up) are actually fairly easy to come by if you know where to look...and I've discovered some parts actually came from North American suppliers. What costs so much is the labor.

Oh, don't get me wrong...the stuffs still expensive as heck...but not nearly as bad as some of the horror stories Ive heard about $5000 tune ups. More like...$1500, provided you're doing the labor.

 

But, I can get a full, running drivetrain from a 308, right now, for less than $10K. And if you've ever priced Ferrari engines or transmissions, you'll know that's a STEAL!

[Speedmade]

This is the first time I have posted on this thread, although I have been watching from the first.

I looked into building a flat-plane crank US V8 five years ago. I even made it as far as purchasing a 5.3 alloy LS Chev motor and a dry sump set-up.

Of course, I found the very same things that many of you are finding. “All you have to do is†get a crank and a cam. Technically you can re-use the rest of the motor.

Once I started adding up the costs, it became clear that it was not going to be the cheap project I thought at first.

$2500 Complete 5.3 alloy LS motor

 

$1200 LS dry sump assy

 

$3600 Sonny Bryant crank $3600

$ 500 Cam

 

For a rough parts total of $7800 before I even began work. And I would end up with an all aluminum, push rod, 2 valve motor that would make about 300ish HP.

 

But after shopping around, I was able to purchase a complete Ferrari 348 motor for $5500. Bone stock these are all aluminum, 4 valve, overhead cam, dry sump, and make 320 HP. Plus they are tiny in size. The only hard work is adapting a T5 bellhousing, flywheel, and clutch to it.

 

As bad as I wanted to have “my own†flat plane crank motor. It just wasn’t cost effective. Now if someone used an iron block, got a lower cost crank, etc. it could be done for much cheaper. But the performance would not be there. I guess it depends on how much someone is willing to sacrifice for the sound.

Remember HP costs money, it doesn’t matter what crank layout it has. If you want power, you are going to spend money. I just decided to use someone elses R&D and Engineering (Ferrari).

[CinNAMmon]

In my researching for my GTO conversion, I've found a US source for Ferrari engines. Long blocks, full engines, used, new, you name it. Though the hard part would be adapting the newer engines to FR, as they're all RR/MR

 

But, engine parts for the newer Ferrari's (82 and up) are actually fairly easy to come by if you know where to look...and I've discovered some parts actually came from North American suppliers. What costs so much is the labor.

Oh, don't get me wrong...the stuffs still expensive as heck...but not nearly as bad as some of the horror stories Ive heard about $5000 tune ups. More like...$1500, provided you're doing the labor.

 

But, I can get a full, running drivetrain from a 308, right now, for less than $10K. And if you've ever priced Ferrari engines or transmissions, you'll know that's a STEAL!

i'd like to find this site!!!! what is the source?

 

thanks in reply

 

as for the other posts, im glad everyone is contributing haha

 

I myself am a Sophomore in highschool, my parents are recently divorced and im just trying to find a job to get my own things through while still being around for my mommy. my project to get a VK45DET(T) 240Z has been put on a huge stop...

 

 

so i have my 94 Toyota Pickup XCab with a 22re with a 4spd auto.

 

It's called Project Potential JZN90/UZN90... I called it that because i planned to go with a 1UZ or 2JZ swap... so i can have that V8 sound, the Supra sound, or now that you said you found a source, A FERRARI SOUND! i'm a huge ferrari fan myself, love the F430's the most

[Challenger]

So your wanting to put a ferrari engine in your toyota pickup...

[kiwi303]

Variable valve timing wouldn't do anything for sound really. The reason why a VVT engine sounds "meaner" is because it's hitting a more agressive cam. The same engine without VVT with a cam as agressive as the high RPM lobe on the VVT engine would sound identical at high RPM. The reason for a VTEC engine to have that sound change just shows how mild the lower cam profile is.

 

since it would be in an engine destined for high revs, what about using a wild cam and righ rev lifters like the crane or rhoades? they pump up firm at high revs/oil pressure, and let the engine extract the best out of the cam, but at low revs loose pressure and don't open the valves so far, making the wild cam act like a mild one. they are noisy at low revs, but for a high rev engine... maybe it's worth the noisy to obtain a livable idle at the lights in return for some wild noise at cruise.

[CinNAMmon]

So your wanting to put a ferrari engine in your toyota pickup...

kinda weird idea but i'd save it for a Z

 

 

since it would be in an engine destined for high revs, what about using a wild cam and righ rev lifters like the crane or rhoades? they pump up firm at high revs/oil pressure, and let the engine extract the best out of the cam, but at low revs loose pressure and don't open the valves so far, making the wild cam act like a mild one. they are noisy at low revs, but for a high rev engine... maybe it's worth the noisy to obtain a livable idle at the lights in return for some wild noise at cruise.

idk why i never thought of that, but it is a good way to keep a livable engine

[Filmjay]

Look into the small Northstar. The 4.0L Aurora engine would be a good candidate. With just cams and springs, it'd easily rev to about 8K, and make about 350hp.

Plus, if you look around, you can find a mid-90's Aurora for literally nothing. The book value alone on one of the early Auroras is less than $500.

You could drop the motor, keep what you need. Part the rest out and you've made your money back.

 

But Auroras ARE very complicated engines. There are nearly twice the parts as an LS1...not to mention, you'll be fabricating a few parts, AND there's not nearly the aftermarket support available that exists for the Lxx motors.

 

For what you're wanting, be prepared to spend some SERIOUS cash. That is, unless you can find a Ferrari motor. But even then, you're still gonna be spending some serious scratch.

 

...and I do not divulge those sources. Someone here might, but I had to search for months, just to find a parts list. So, get to Googling. Join some Ferrari forums and ask around. Just don't tell them what you plan on doing with it or they'll laugh you off the board. Trust me. Some of those Ferrari folks can be VERY elitist.

[blaze73]

People are getting some serious revs outta the 1UZ

 

[Mani]

Just registered to add to this thread.. Here's another V8 that would sound AMAZING in a Datsun.

 

 

It's just the first 10 seconds of the video.

[Gollum]

You know, maybe we've been over thinking this from the beginning. I know we're all stuck on an exotic sounding V8 engine, but a lot of the "exotic" sound that we're all familiar with come from V12 and V10 engines, with a lot more fires per rev giving them amazing sound capabilities.

 

Anyone see a ferrari crank lately? It's just a V6 crank from front to back, then the second half is just a mirror image of it. So the middle of the engine is rotating together, and the far outsides are rotating together.

 

...wouldn't be hard to fit TWO of some V6 engines into a Z...

 

And would be a lot cheaper than a custom crank.

 

And would be a lot of displacement.

 

And would be doable by the every day fabricator.

[Speedmade]

This guy builds V12's that are essentially two Chevy V6's.

His original prototype back in the early 90s was two blocks and two cranks machined and welded together.

 

http://www.falconerengines.com/bio/bio_v12.php

[Gollum]

so I'd been thinking two V6 engines to make a V12 sound on a budget, but in order to mirror the crank you'd need one engine to be turned around 180 degrees, which isn't doable on a realistic budget. Might as well go with a BMW or Merc V12 at that point.

 

It could be done with two motors stacked in front of each other but the firing pattern won't be like a V12, and If I'm right I don't think you'll end up with a balanced L to R exhaust pulses.

 

 

But wait, there's more!

 

How about two Honda VFR800 engines stacked in front of each other? I've already figured out what the firing pattern would be too. It's not identical to what a ferrari flat plane crank V8 would be, but it's still a balanced L-R design. With how tiny these engines are you'd have plenty of room for custom equal length headers in our Z cars. On ebay they seem to sell for a good bit under the 1k range, so 2k for two wouldn't be too bad! The main downfall is that with the displacement you're limited on power without force induction, but that'd be the most badarse sounding 200hp EVER.

 

For those curious, to get the even firing pattern you'd just rotate the rear engine 360 degrees. If you number the new V8 with odd on the left, 1 and 2 in the front then you get this pattern - 1-6-3-4-5-2-7-8. Perfect fires every 90 degrees.

 

With custom cams I don't see why you couldn't mimic a ferrari pattern which might lead to less engine against engine vibration.

[fasttom]

how about my sesco v8

 

 

big turbo 50 lbs of boost feel free to call or email me about this v8 or my other 2 sesco v8's

tom murray

jhtracing@gmail.com

763 464 0596

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BRAAP]

Single plane crank V-8! YEAH!