hughdogz Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Does anyone know if there is a trick to get these suckers on? I've done about 1/2 hour of searching and I'm still puzzled... They seem to fit MUCH tighter than the OEM ones and I've about had it. I tried the usual stuff...emery cloth, heating the damper, lubricant, etc. and it still won't go on even with a block and rubber mallet (which I HATE to do since it could ruin the bottom end:bonk:) I've installed dampers from 240's 260's and 280zx's and never had this much trouble. I'm finally giving up and buying an installer tomorrow (~$65 from Napa). The frustrating part is that I'd always end up moving the key out of its socket from it sitting too high somehow or not lining up perfectly tapping the damper on. I would turn the crank if I tried to clock the keyway (the tinyest bit) to line it up since the damper has so much interference with the crank, even if the damper was on just a little bit (like 1/8"). I did discover a good way to line up the keyway to the key before you start pressing on the damper using a zip tie. The bigger ones are a perfect fit in the keyway width-wise. I hope Napa is open tomorrow on the 4th so I can pick up the installer. I sure hope I don't end up cracking the damper or find out that I messed up the bottom end!! I'm sure someone has installed one of these already...did you need an installer? This is for an '82 L28ET but you'd think they should fit any L-series engine the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 WOW! No replies yet...I guess I'm the only one having trouble with these?! Thanks for the views...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 You might try renting an installer form Autozone. You get your money back when you return it. Personally I've only installed OEM balancers that went on like normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Hey, thanks for the Re: Cody...at least I don't feel alone now..hehe Well, the installer at Napa didn't come in the M16x1.5 size so I didn't buy it (luckily I brought the bolt to make sure) I made my own installer using a longer bolt and a few damper washers from the various engines laying around. STILL NO LUCK!! even after a hours of trying I can't get the sucker to line up perfectly. Usually, the key comes out of the circular pocket in the crank right away if the keyway isn't clocked perfect. One time I got it lined up just right, but the key still rotated its way out of the pocket almost 45 degrees and got smashed. Luckily I stopped in time so I didn't crack the damper. I even tried gluing the key in!! I still think the ID of the damper is still too small, it won't rotate on the crank at all. I'll give it another whirl, but if I can't get it then I'm going to an OEM one...bah!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Time to get out the calipers and take some measurments before you got bonkers. Make sure the hole is not much smaller than the factory pulley. You dont want to press it on and have to pull the motor to get the pulley off later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 The damper should slip on with a couple taps of a rubber hammer. Any more force than that, then something is wrong. Don't assume that the damper is correct. I've bought reground cranks that had the end knurled incorrectly. It was impossible to get the chain sprocket on there. I ended up sending it back so they could resize the cranks end to the proper size. I'd call Powerforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76s30 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I've had the same problem with a couple stock dampeners the key keeps flipping out. Glad I'm not the only one I felt like such an ass when I cracked a pulley. I ended up grinding the key so it was steped (narrower on the top) and took a little of the top and mic-ed the pulley and remmed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myplasticegg Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 there are problems in making these things, even putting them in the correct box. I've already gotten 3 different size main bearings for a 4cyl engine (only 5 bearings!) measure, call, send back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Time to get out the calipers and take some measurments before you got bonkers. Make sure the hole is not much smaller than the factory pulley. You dont want to press it on and have to pull the motor to get the pulley off later. Cygnusx, I took your advice and here is what I found: Crank OD = 35.00 mm 280ZX damper ID = 34.99 mm Powerforce ID = 34.79 mm (and yes, I am going bonkers!!) The damper should slip on with a couple taps of a rubber hammer. Any more force than that, then something is wrong. Don't assume that the damper is correct.......I'd call Powerforce. Z-ya, I think you hit the damper on the head!! I can slip my OEM damper on and off all day like butter (by hand) by comparison. I put a spare 280zx damper on with ONE HAND...took me ten seconds. I even pulled it back off (took me two hands & some wiggling) to make sure the key didn't slip out. The damper is 0.20mm (EIGHT thousandths) too small. I probably (stupidly) lost sixteen hours of my life fighting it. I was so stupid because in the instructions they say if the fit is tight, it must be you, because we machine these perfectly...doh!! I like the way the 280zx dampers have a small tapered portion to make sure you're getting it lined up correctly. I'll call powerforce tomorrow and see what they say... If they flip me the bird, I guess I'll have to get it enlarged somehow... I've had the same problem with a couple stock dampeners the key keeps flipping out. Glad I'm not the only one I felt like such an ass when I cracked a pulley... 76s30, I think just about everyone who's ever removed a damper before cracked one trying to get it back on (me and half my Z-buddies) I tell ya, this has been one LONG stressful learning experience for me!! Now back to getting the rest of the engine together by tomorrow for PIR... ps: I hope the batch that Bubbles is planning doesn't have this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Too tight is only good for some things....not for crank pulleys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Cygnusx, I took your advice and here is what I found: Crank OD = 35.00 mm 280ZX damper ID = 34.99 mm Powerforce ID = 34.79 mm (and yes, I am going bonkers!!) Z-ya, I think you hit the damper on the head!! I can slip my OEM damper on and off all day like butter (by hand) by comparison. I put a spare 280zx damper on with ONE HAND...took me ten seconds. I even pulled it back off (took me two hands & some wiggling) to make sure the key didn't slip out. The damper is 0.20mm (EIGHT thousandths) too small. I probably (stupidly) lost sixteen hours of my life fighting it. I was so stupid because in the instructions they say if the fit is tight, it must be you, because we machine these perfectly...doh!! I like the way the 280zx dampers have a small tapered portion to make sure you're getting it lined up correctly. I'll call powerforce tomorrow and see what they say... If they flip me the bird, I guess I'll have to get it enlarged somehow... 76s30, I think just about everyone who's ever removed a damper before cracked one trying to get it back on (me and half my Z-buddies) I tell ya, this has been one LONG stressful learning experience for me!! Now back to getting the rest of the engine together by tomorrow for PIR... ps: I hope the batch that Bubbles is planning doesn't have this problem. Man that sucks.. Yeah it is something that should be checked out for sure.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 I'll call powerforce tomorrow and see what they say... I called Professional Products today and spoke with John. He was really nice and understanding and said they'll replace it if I send it back. Spec ID is 34.95 mm so even with that you'd think it would be hard to turn on the crank snout?? The only slightly negative thing they had to say was they never heard of this problem with the L-series dampers, but since I got one of the first batch (sent to MSA) then anything is possible. More importantly they wanted to check mine out if in case there was a problem, they'll sure to know about it. I'm sending it off right now, I just wanted to let you guys know that they stand behind their product and (at least) I'm happy with their customer service! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbleguinea Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 thanks for the heads up!!! ive allready sold a powerforcePLUS (90055) damnper...the SFI rated one...sold it to a guy here that came and picked it up in store...walked out after tax and shipping for $190 ive got 4 powerforce (80055) dampners on the way...reserved for Blue (zcar.com) and one for Gabe.... once these are run through...i see about ordering more and what i can do...prices went up just a bit (manager said i have to sell a little more expensive) but they are still more than $40 less than MSA (about $72-$75plus shipping) ill let everyone know the ID of the pulleys when they come in!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 thanks for the heads up!!! ive allready sold a powerforcePLUS (90055) damnper...the SFI rated one...sold it to a guy here that came and picked it up in store...walked out after tax and shipping for $190 ive got 4 powerforce (80055) dampners on the way...reserved for Blue (zcar.com) and one for Gabe.... once these are run through...i see about ordering more and what i can do...prices went up just a bit (manager said i have to sell a little more expensive) but they are still more than $40 less than MSA (about $72-$75plus shipping) ill let everyone know the ID of the pulleys when they come in!!! Thanks andrew!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2eighTZ4me Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Guess I'd better measure that puppy, as I don't have plans to install it for a little while yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chownc Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Andrew, sent you a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chino 240Z Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Last year I had trouble with a new BHJ-Dynamics racing pulley. After much time trial fitting the pulley only, I found couple high spots on the pulley edge and the crank end. Little very fine emery paper cleaned them up and made for a smooth combination. Cleaned the keyway up with a tiny thin file, and smoothed up the key by using fine emery paper on a hard bench surface and they key fit perfect into the keyway. Once each surface was smoothed and clean to fit, just a gentle tap of the rubber mallet made for a perfect fit then torqued to spec with the bolt and spacer intalled. If the 3 components are too tight it is easy for the key to pop out the back of keyway and when you are tightening and well.... ooooooh what a mess they can make of the pulley, key and keyway; but they are repaireable if not to badley damaged. If it doesn't feel right or look right it probably isn't, remove and start again. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbleguinea Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 chownc and gabe...check my new thread good news and bad news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcarman76 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I had a wonderfull time installing my Powerforce dampner. I used a small 3 stone hone and twisted it back and forth by hand so as not to damage the tiny keyway groove. It sucked,but it went on and I have had no issues with it. Compare the keyway groove to an OEM and You will see what I mean. Yea, I had two ordered with a local machine shop, after 5 weeks after the expected arrival time I discovered MSA had them and got it 4 days after placing my order. Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 After reading this thread I did a little research and found this on the site of a different mfg. (they do not make anything for L series engines). Our entire range of dampers have been sized for a “tight†or interference fit on to the crankshafts for which they are intended. A loose damper will not function effectively and in time can destroy the key and damage the crank snout. It is important that the installation instructions are followed when installing a damper. The instructions recommend that the damper be heated in boiling water or on the lowest setting of a kitchen oven for 15 minutes, which expands the hub slightly easing installation, prior to fitting to the engine with a professional damper installation tool. As all dampers have been assembled on very close tolerance mandrels it is highly unlikely that the damper is “too tightâ€. Damper bore sizes and tolerances are available if required; however in the event that it appears the damper is too tight, ensure the following procedures are followed: 1) Remove the damper carefully using a Professional damper removal tool. 2) Clean the crank snout with very fine abrasive paper to ensure no burrs exist. 3) Check the bore of the damper to ensure there is no paint residue, if required clean the area with very fine abrasive paper. 4) Re check the sizes, particularly the heighth of the crankshaft key as some Aftermarket crankshafts and keys do not meet OEM specs. 5) Prior to installation heat the damper in boiling water for 15 minutes or place in a preheated oven at a low temperature (max 250 deg F or 120 deg C) for 15 minutes. Remove from oven with insulated heatproof gloves, oil the crank snout and promptly install using a professional damper installation tool. I hope this information helps out. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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