Stroker Sticker Shock

[Matadem]

for that kind of money you could 2 rb26 engines lol

[katman]

If you're in Atlanta you might make a call to Goza in downtown Acworth. They do the machine work for Eddie Radatz Motorsports, and Eddie can assemble for you.

 

Since Sunbelt got bought by Kinetic they aren't as interested in on-off type jobs like a 3 liter project (despite the fact they've done lots, each customer wants different stuff so every job is a risk), and frankly Datsun people don't usually have the money to spend like those with BMW's and Porsche's. The sad fact is you can spend hours on the phone with a Z guy talking about how he wants his engine built, and how to save a penny here and there, and half the time the projects never pan out anyway. World Challenge BMW or BMWCCA, or PCA guy calls up and you tell him it's 20k and he says okay, here's the check. If that was a Sunbelt quote I'd say the reason they ask $120/hr is because they can get it.

 

Lemme know what Goza says, there's other options 'round these parts.

[TimZ]

Customer supplies rebuildable core motor with head including

89mm KA pistons, rods, stroker crank, Harmonic

balancer and flywheel.

 

$10,400.00

 

Ummm - am I the only one that noticed that this didn't include forged pistons? I guess that this might be okay if you don't plan on a turbo, but I'd guess you'll be mighty pissed when the ring lands fail from detonation the first time you make a tuning mistake...

 

At that price, I wouldn't even consider cast pistons.

[johnc]

Yep, your paying for what you see also, the backyard shop can do just as good as job for less money, but people see what LOOKS like a good shop so they pay more just for that.

 

Well, you're almost comparing apples to oranges. Sunbelt and other big race engine shops do a lot of development work and are tasked with building dozens of identical engines to a specific rule set. They have to produce these dozen engines in a two month window that exists from when the rules books are finalized to the start of the racing season.

 

They also need to have the facilities to refresh and refurbish engines during the season usually with a one week turn-around. And, to top all of that off, they have to be able to revise and test the engine package almost instantly when the rule makers make a mid-season change. And, just to add to one more "little" thing, they have to provide trackside support to all the teams running their engines at every race and every test session during the season.

 

So, to imply that these shops are all bling is not true.

[stprasinz]

Now thats a boat load of money for a rebuild.... I mean I got like 3000 in my engine. But thats no stroker... lol... If I gotta pay 7000 for the stroker somethings wrong there.

But I also have a local machine shop that explained every step how to persue what future steps should be, potential limits of the current setup, thiings they recommend to do things not to do etc... I spent probably 20-30 hours talking about that sort of thing Before during and after the whole process.....

I am happy with my current setup for what it is... But I am not satisfied enough to say its the same motor that will be in it next summer......

But if I had that money in it I better be happy for a long time.....

Hell I am going to replace my whole bottom end fully machined and still have less than your 1st time over... I might even be able to fit my turbo setup in that price lol......

 

 

Either way good luck

[gogriz91]

I would say you're paying for a Sunbelt stroker in the same manner you would pay less for a Rebello stroker. If you want to go shadetree then you get a shadetree stroker...with either option it may last a million miles or it may last 2K...you won't know until you take the plunge. Call Goza or call John Williams or Balanced Performance and see what other options you have.

[gretchen/jason]

Thats about what i paid for my stroker just under 4 grand and it wasnt any faster then it was bone stock only thing i reused was the head and block all else were new parts . So i opted for a SBC 383

 

Jason

[Tony D]

"I figured out that I can buy a GM-Performance crate motor for roughly the same amount it would cost to build a ~decent~ L-series. The GM engine comes with a warranty and ready-to-ship replacements. The bonus is that the GM motor will put out as much power as TWO L-series motors."

 

Curiously that is exactly what many of the 'NASCAR EXPERIENCE' style driving schools use! The one where I was working used ZZ4 Crate Motors with a Big Block Oil Pump in a Winston West Chassis. If the motor blew, GM covered it under warranty (really!) SO as a result the engine costs through a season were virtually nil. It really is a smart move for people who will be racing.

 

I didn't see the quote as out of line, but for KA24 pistons in the engine, you are overbuying the machine work AND the shop! If you are running cast pistons, go to a local machine shop that has a reputation as a competent general purpose machine shop and get your machine work done there, and as you said Assemble Yourself.

 

Going back to my VW days, and my old standby Gene Berg, he would adamantly suggest you do all the engine assembly work yourself. He was the first to say there is nothing special about it, and if you do it you know what was done. If you really really really pushed, they would assemble the engine for you, but generally this was not the way they did business. The money for assembly is in the HEAD, not the block. Have the HEAD prepped/ported/assembled by a specialist shop, but the block can be done at home with a few specialized tools and care at home.

 

Buy the "How to Modify" book, and have at it. The bottom end is fairly straightforward if you take your time, follow the recommendations, and have the tools to do it.

 

Yes, TimZ, I noticed that as well! If it's not a serious build, then don't spend the serious money. It's a waste with cast pistons, no reason not to do it yourself with cast slugs and a 6500 rpms rev limit...

[ArnZ]

I was told the cast pistons were sufficient for my application. From the get go, I planned on doing the assembly myself. I have "How to hot rod and race..." "How to modify......" "How to rebuild....." Multiple factory service manuals, and years or trolling the net.

I have done my homework and have aquired everything but the pistons.

So I am going to make some calls and see what else is out there.

[2savage]

I say it's time to get back to reality. Ford Motor Sports will sell you a crate engine putting out 345 bhp for just 3,500. This is NEW, not remanufactured, and would have a full warranty. I'm sure Chevy engines can be had for similar amounts of green. Forget the stroker.

[OlderThanMe]

"could have had a V8"

A VH45DE(T) @10 PSI on a STOCK engine with STOCK injectors makes around 500-530 horsepower...

And considering that I picked up my VH drivetrain for less than half the cost of a set of SBC forged rods... I'd call that great bang for the buck.

[johnc]

Here we go again...

[Evan Purple240zt]

Here we go again...

 

LOL

[ArnZ]

I can't do a V8 in this car, it's gotta be a L.

[Tony D]

I was told the cast pistons were sufficient for my application.

 

With all the money you are putting into an engine, what is the realistic price differential between a set of NEW (not new-to-me) cast pistons, and a set of NEW Forged Slugs? At 89mm that sounds a lot like a Chevy Bore Size....

 

Keep an open mind on parts sourcing, and realize that Buick Pistons fit in a Chevy same as Chevy Pistons do... Parts is parts. In the 'old days' people were buying stock Chevy 2300 Vega Pistons because you got them for CHEAP, with rings, and they were forged (keeping with the aluminum block and special lining expansion rates). They were a popular 3L engine piston option, and anything for a Chevy is an order of magnitude cheaper than something with 'Datsun' tagged on it. In many cases you could buy a SET of TRW Aftermarket Forged Slugs cheaper than a set of new cast stock pistons!

 

Other than some more noise (overblown IMO) and possibly some more oil consumption (again, not an issue for me) Forged Pistons will afford you a bottom end that doesn't need to be attended to if you suddenly realize that stopping the rush at 7000rpms is just a drag.

 

For me, with the costs of parts, the differential in piston costs doesn't make much sense to not spend a couple of hundred more for forged and be done with it. It's not like they will last less long eh?

 

That is what I was getting at.

 

And I like the VH 45 Turbo Idea. Mmmmmmmmm Turbo.....LOL

[OlderThanMe]

I knew an older guy that had a 280Z and his brother raced another 280 in IMSA and ran an L6.

The brother ran "corvair" forged pistons and bushed the connecting rods because getting forged custom pistons was REALLY expensive. Aparently it ran really good.

[1 fast z]

You can run Corvair pistons. I orignially did this a few years ago, in a F54 block. yes, of the shelve forged pistons. I think I bored my block to 3.4375 to accept them. You have to offset the connection rods, for busings if I remember. They also use a .800" dia pin. BUT my cost on them was like 60.00 a peice, and I got my forged blanks for 54.00 in any bore size, so it was an easy decision which to go with.

[240zwannabe]

i hear ya man, i had quotes done at a local machine shop and just the machine work alone was $2,500 for a stroker motor...that was before parts and what not

[TimZ]

i hear ya man, i had quotes done at a local machine shop and just the machine work alone was $2,500 for a stroker motor...that was before parts and what not

 

I guess I'm not seeing what the difference is for a stroker motor, especially if you are supplying the crank and rods and pistons that already fit. There is a small amount of clearancing that is needed for the rods to clear the block with the longer stroke, but that isn't exactly rocket science. Otherwise the cost should be the same as a standard rebuild.

[1 fast z]

I guess I'm not seeing what the difference is for a stroker motor, especially if you are supplying the crank and rods and pistons that already fit. There is a small amount of clearancing that is needed for the rods to clear the block with the longer stroke, but that isn't exactly rocket science. Otherwise the cost should be the same a standard rebuild.

 

And actually with the three strokers I have built, none of them even needed clearencing.

 

Basicly what makes the cost difference between two quality shops is overhead.