2009 chevy corvette zr1

[Michael]

The new GT-R picks up where Japanese "sports" cars of the early 1990's (Supra, 300ZX, Mitsubishi 3000GT) left off: 3500-lb GT-type cars marketed toward yuppies and middle-aged types with far more interest in appearances than "performance". With 15 years more increase in government-mandated safety features, in creature-comforts and electronics, the 3500 lbs has swelled to 3900 lbs. If it is any consolation, the new V8 RWD offerings from Pontiac and Cadillac will be 4000+ lbs.

 

Personally I can't justify $80K for any mass-market car, because of the depreciation. I would however be interested in a $30K-40K used car - a 5-year old car that sold for $80K used. A good example, though slightly downmarket from this level, would be a $25K 2003 C32 AMG Benz ($50K new). So I would consider a GT-R in the future, if the depreciation works out favorably.

 

Even so, I would rather swallow another 200 lbs of weight and get a sedan. For a sports coupe I draw the line (admittedly arbitrarily) at 3400 lbs.

[Mikelly]

That's the problem Michael...

 

All the "fan boys" will hype this car up the way they did the last generation Supra Turbo. You still can't touch a clean Supra Turbo for less than $25K, and that car hasn't been made since 1998. NADA value of them is in the toilet, but the "purschase" price is still unrealistic.

 

Mike

[AKWIKZ]

I don't see how the Supra's value was hyped. It was, and still is, a fantastic performer. The reason it's value is still so high has far more to do with the relative rarity of the car than any "fan boy" hype. Compared to it's peers such as the C4 Vette and Z32tt, very few Supra turbos were sold. The six speed twin turbo is the more sought after one that still commands the higher price tag. And rightfully so as production of these was actually cut two years shorter here in the U.S leaving the majority of cars out there as auto or 5 speed. Even so, every version of the car was fantastic. Even though it is also considered a heavy car. Spectacular power, especially for the early '90's when it was first released, beautiful styling, and Toyota reliability. Because of these factors finding an unmolested version just compounds the price issue. It's similiar to finding an original 510. An un-modded 510 in good shape will bring as much or more than a fully built SR powered one these days. Again, it's supply in demand that drives the re-sale prices of a lot of cars.

 

As for the GT-R, production has been set so that the U.S. will most likely get 1500 per year. This fact alone could keep the re-sale high for quite a few years. If Nissan is able to keep the waiting lists full, you may find people asking quite a bit for their used ones. Overall production will be the eventual determining factor though. I can't help but wonder if that 1500 per year figure was set due to the idea of keeping demand high as opposed to actual production line limitations.

 

Brian

[rudypoochris]

I clearly can see how the Supras value was hyped... It performed about equally, a bit better, than a 300zx twin turbo. Yet they are still $25k? You can get a 300zx TT for $5k easy. Yes, less were made, but they aren't exactly an exotic car. The fact that they are so expensive is because so many fans like them despite there being easily obtainable equivalent performers from the same era that look just as good (if not better in my opinion). Then along comes along the C5 which is clearly a better performer and still costs considerably less. What about Porsche 911 from the same era selling for ~$30,000. Those are PORSCHES!!! I think it is actually quite amazing how much the Supra is indeed hyped up when you look at its specifications.

[AKWIKZ]

I'm not arguing that there are not equal or better performing cars for less money out there. You're right about that. But they actually are somewhat exotic, technically. The U.S. got a total of just under 10k Mk IV Supras. Less than half of those were turbos. And about half again were six speed. So that makes only 2500 cars to go around. Now, take into account that a fair many of them probably ended up wrecked or as race cars and that number is deminished further. So, for those Supra enthusiasts out there finding the car they dearly want comes down to paying out the cash. A rational mind like yours would say "next" and find a better way to spend the money. But as we have seen car ownership is not always rational is it? If it were, no one would buy the $150k plus cars out there.

 

Brian

[Mikelly]

Brian, You're correct. The problem is the car isn't "valued" at the asking price. One of our own members had his totalled and the insurance company didn't want to give him what he thought it was worth, based on buyer market. They were looking at it from a property value view point... Those Mark IV Supras won't get a loan value of the asking price, or anywhere within $10K of the asking price most of these people "think" their car is worth... The hype of the fan base for a given platform inflates the price of a given model beyond the reality of the worth, hence the problem we see with the Supra and some other low production cars.

 

Believe me, it's no better in the Porsche market either...

 

Mike

[Gollum]

I'd consider the FD far more "exotic" than a supra any day. The only reason I can understand the supra selling prices is that there are too many fan boys that hype the car, causing people with real money to keep buying them, and then wanting to sell them because it doesn't live up. At the end of the day, in stock chassis for they're a japanses mustang. Great in a straight line, can be made to handle, but not really graceful about it. The fan boys will tell you otherwise though.

 

Same will happen to the GTR I bet. Though the NSX does give me hope. There's a car with millions of honda fan boys backing it, and the prices have come down to reasonable levels, with comparable then and now values to the viper. So who knows.

 

I know that if in 10 years the GTR can be had for 20-30k I'd probably be interested in buying one. But that's a huge IF.

[AKWIKZ]

I'd consider the FD far more "exotic" than a supra any day. The only reason I can understand the supra selling prices is that there are too many fan boys that hype the car, causing people with real money to keep buying them, and then wanting to sell them because it doesn't live up. At the end of the day, in stock chassis for they're a japanses mustang. Great in a straight line, can be made to handle, but not really graceful about it. The fan boys will tell you otherwise though.

 

Same will happen to the GTR I bet. Though the NSX does give me hope. There's a car with millions of honda fan boys backing it, and the prices have come down to reasonable levels, with comparable then and now values to the viper. So who knows.

 

I know that if in 10 years the GTR can be had for 20-30k I'd probably be interested in buying one. But that's a huge IF.

 

Good comparisons. The FD is without a doubt even more rare. Problem with that one is that it is so unique that it's following is very small. Granted rotary guys are as rabid a breed as you will find. I have always been impressed with that cars performance on the track, but can't help but wonder if it's popularity was hurt by the impression of fragility. I know the big joke I've heard about RX-7's is that the factory tool kit consists of 3 new apex seals and some chewing gum.

 

As for the Supra, it's funny that you mention the Mustang comparison. I too have heard the sterotype of it being a straight line car. I wonder how this happened as when the car was first tested it clocked one of the fastest sloloms in C/D and generated .95g (or there abouts)on the skid pad. Makes me think that people's "mods" actually made the car slower around corners. I see very few Supras at the local track. And usually they are not at the roadcourse but at the dragstrip. But they are in deed very fast down the quarter.

 

The NSX is a bit complex in my opinion. In many ways it mirrors what I think will happen with the GT-R. When the NSX first came out it was nearly $60k, and this was the very early '90's. Granted it was every bit as exotic as anything from Italy. All aluminum, mid engine, and the first use of variable valve technology (VTEC) in a production car. But that was a lot of money for a Japanese car in a time when the Japanese were still not seen as equals to American or European cars. Still, people paid out for them. And Honda was able to sell them here longer than Nissan, Toyota, or Mazda were able to market their halo cars. Even though it was not really on par with the others in stock trim, it offered buyers something different. Personally I think American buyers are quite willing to shell out $70-$90k for a Japanese car. This is not the popular opinion these days but I look to the NSX as proof. So long as the GT-R delivers on it's performance promise I think there will be plenty of buyers.

 

And this is why I have been so pro GT-R in other posts. I have been following all of the current events surrounding it and it looks to be delivering. It's been on sale in Japan since December of last year and a few privately owned ones have been independently tested. Edmunds.com was given one on a cold day and pulled a 3.3 0-60 and an 11.5 quarter, on their second try. Two dyno runs on two different cars have also been posted that resulted in 473hp at the wheels on the first one and 455hp at the wheels on the second. I honestly feel that with these kinds of numbers Nissan will find 1500 buyers per year. Others have made the comment that the complexity of the computer system is going to limit the tunability of the car thus impacting it's performance abilities. It's a fair enough assumption but not in line with reality. The GT-R's computer has actually already been cracked by the Japanese tuning company Mines. And this is actually a lot faster than the aftermarket replied to the R32 GT-R back in '89. Once the car is released to the world markets there could already be aftermarket support. As to how many will end up on American tracks I really don't know. Japanese owners seem to be running them like there is no tomorrow. It remains to be seen what the mindset of American owners will be. I do know that it has already set incredible times at Tsukuba and Suzuka in independent tests. I'm quite interested to see how things turn out here.

 

Brian

[73DatsunZ]

If you want a V8 (LS2 or LS2 Supercharged or a LS7) in a Sky or a Solstice go look at http://www.mallettcars.com/sky-conversion.htm They get expensive, but I bet they move like hell on wheels. Mega sleeper too