Automotive Welding 101

[palosfv3]

Please take this post seriously. After looking at many threads about welding in new floor pans and rails it appears many are attempting these types of welding repairs with minimal skills or expierience. Nothing to be ashamed about we all had to start and learn somewhere. What upsets me most is the replacement of spot welds with continuous welds and the acceptance of others as being an ok thing to do. To write out a thread with all the correct welding info would take a considerable time to do . I have listed a number of links below to what I know is the automotive industry information and training leader.

 

I-CAR (Inter -Industry Conference on Auto Collision Repair) has some very pertinent welding ( as well as other repair/refinishing )information posted on line that should be very helpful to those wanting to learn .

 

This link is to training videos and pdfs for I-CARs welding certification class. Please review if your unsure of the proper welding techniques or have not welded before .

http://www.i-car.com/html_pages/training_programs/downloads.shtml

 

This UPCR link page lists the proper steps for the welding/repair process. You'll need to browse through the listing and select the appropriate link.

The important ones are listed in the welding, corrosion protection ,structural parts and adhesive bonding. Below is the link to this page.

http://www.i-car.com/html_pages/technical_information/upcr.shtml

 

This next link has to do with properly restoring the corrosion protection on replacement metal panels. This should be done on any welded/bonded in panel.

 

http://www.i-car.com/html_pages/technical_information/advantage/advantage_online_archives/2004/031504a.shtml

 

I've added this link for those that believe the original welds in the rail extensions and floor pan are insufficient. This is one of the many ways the OEMs are getting the strength and torsional rigidity improvements in todays new cars. This is probably the best way to increase the strength in a spot welded hat channel and can easily be applied to the Z cars.

 

http://www.icar.com/html_pages/technical_information/advantage/advantage_online_archives/2005/041805.shtml

 

Dont be afraid to browse this site. There is a lot of great info .

 

 

When welding remember just like in painting preparation,cleanlinessand practice are the most important step to a great outcome. Theres and old shop saying about welding, "If you dont weld so good weld more often."

 

There are other sites that list welding info . I used ICAR because it gives the best info for the application.

 

Now start welding .

 

Larry

www.wgmauto.com

[grumpyvette]

thanks for posting the links !! all info on welding helps!! and I know Im sure willing to learn new tricks and gain new skills,and Ive been welding for 35 plus years

 

got questions, these guys usually have answers

 

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/forumdisplay.php?f=4

 

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/

 

links to these threads are MANDATORY

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=126993&highlight=welding

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=108912&highlight=welding

 

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/135341/

[johnc]

Stuck it and improved the title a bit. Good post.

[JSpecGC8]

Thank you very much this is just what I needed, I can tell that I am going to be busy with this for quite some time.

[Slow_Old_Car]

are the links working for anyone else? they are dead for me.

[rturbo 930]

Excellent post. This is exactly what I've been looking for. The one big reason I've been putting off fixing the rust on my car is because I don't know the proper way to do it. Thanks for sharing!

 

are the links working for anyone else? they are dead for me.

They work for me.

[grumpyvette]

http://www.hobartbrothers.com/aboutus/downloads/

 

a bit more info

[tonycharger72]

An extremely helpful site for MIG welding !!!

 

Quick and easy tutorials to get you started!!!

 

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tutorial.htm

[DeleriousZ]

An extremely helpful site for MIG welding !!!

 

Quick and easy tutorials to get you started!!!

 

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tutorial.htm

 

This article was fantastic for me first-timing on a mud gun. It was very helpful for setup tips and got me laying decent beads right away.

 

big +1 for anyone starting out on a mig, very helpful.

[TheBandit]

I've added this link for those that believe the original welds in the rail extensions and floor pan are insufficient. This is one of the many ways the OEMs are getting the strength and torsional rigidity improvements in todays new cars. This is probably the best way to increase the strength in a spot welded hat channel and can easily be applied to the Z cars.

 

http://www.icar.com/html_pages/technical_information/advantage/advantage_online_archives/2005/041805.shtml

 

 

Do you know if this article is available still? Sounded interesting from your description, but the link apears to be dead.

[palosfv3]

Try this link

 

 

http://www.i-car.com/html_pages/technical_information/advantage/advantage_online_archives/2005/041805.shtml

[grumpyvette]

one of my friends was recently working on an older corvette with a rather large, thin,flimsy and complicated aluminum bracket that held the air conditioner compressor and serpentine belt tension-er, to the block and used its multi bolt, secured base for its strength, during the removal he forgot one bolt and tugged hard on the bracket and twisted it enough that it broke, or the previous owner had used air tools and overtightened it, pricing a new one at salvage corvette yards showed that it cost several hundred dollars to replace.

SO, I got out my TIG welder, figuring even if I totally destroyed the bracket during the repair process he would be no worse off.

now Ive learned years ago to do some test welds on some similar size scrap aluminum and to use the minimum amps required so as not to warp the component.

he was surprised when I grabbed some scrap aluminum to do some test welds on ans when I took the effort to re-grind the tungsten torch electrode, but once I worked the amps up to about 83 amps Id found the required heat, and gas flow rates and while the bracket was obviously not new , under a close visual inspection,its now very serviceable and it takes a close look to see it was welded.something I doubt would be true if I,d been testing the amp range on the weld while adjusting the welder

[grumpyvette]

I was recently asked about a Lincoln ARC welder a guy found at a yard sale for only $200,

the answer to which welder you'll want depends on what your intended use for the welder is, most guys understandably want to get into welding as cheaply as they can, and they see a 220volt 230 amp arc welder for less than $400 and think thats a great idea, but you mention auto body work, that generally involves thin sheet steel and an ARC welder like your talking about is a rather poor choice for that, that welder is fine for welding up car trailers or brackets on rear differentials or most things made from 3/16-3/8" steel but it will be a P.I.T.A, on thin 24-20 gauge sheet steel fenders and doors etc. compared to a decent MIG or TIG

Id suggest you take the class BEFORE you buy a welder

and if its body work your intending to do a small MIG or TIG is a far better choice

 

read thru these

 

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=72

 

 

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1669

 

since your looking for a basically do everything auto body and frame welder, Id suggest this, as a great choice

 

 

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907422

 

if your ONLY doing sheet metal body work and on a limited budget

 

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907335

 

btw

if you check your local bargain trader and Craig,s list or EBAY theres a good chance you can find a used miller,Lincoln or HTP TIG WELDER that would do an even better job that would normally cost several thousand dollar$ for a similar cash out lay

something like these used TIGS can be less than 1/2 price and a screaming deal, keep in mind a decent TIG can also do aluminum

just stick to name brands LINCOLN,MILLER,HTP and do the research to verify its still got parts availability (LESS THAN 10 years old usually)

 

 

its a great idea to take a welding class before buying a welder

pay attention when they start talking and TIG welding,water cooled vs air cooled,torches, shield gas,,ceramic gas shields,selection,electrode selection,

 

 

 

and MIG welding about shield gas,wire size,,wire speeds, etc. because those will become important to your results

 

 

 

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=530

 

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=72

 

 

a good quality MIG will work ok,on thin body panels

BUT a good quality TIG is even better!

giving better heat control and better weld quality

 

I can,t see how you can get by without at least one decent welder in your shop,

Ive got 4 welders, arc,mig,tig,and a gas torch, but I could easily get by with just both a good 300 amp TIG and an OXY-ACETYLENE welders, the migs faster and easier but not as versatile in my opinion, the arc welders fine for frames and heavy steel but its not much good on the delicate things

 

 

look around your area for a deal with a complete used 250-300 amp tig system like this with water cooled torch,pump,welder and your thousand$ ahead of buying new in come cases

[DUDE]

I was wondering what the most inexpensive best spot welder "brand" for some extra strenth on my 72 240z would be for me to look for in craiglist or another spot?

[charlie]

for cars or automotive welding, some of the job is finished by submerged arc welding process. SAW process needs welding flux and wires. basic welding flux can provide excellent mechanical properties, while acid welding flux can provide excellent welding performance. see this http://www.ylflux.com/saw_flux.html to know more about the knowledge about fluxes.