G-rib-73-240z Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 My room mate said that after a certain amount of horsepower/torque the 4 lugs will just snap, causing major problems. i was wondering if this was true. i was planing on putting a high compression 383 sbc in my 240z. also if he's right and the stock 4 lugs can not take over a certain horsepower/torque level, whats the backspacing on 80's 300zx brakes (to do the toyota 4x4/300zx brake swap) any help would be greatly apreciated, knowing me this is posted somewhere and my inability to think of the right magic words to search for the right threads via search button Thomas (i hope i spelled everything right) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMWHYR0HEN Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Never heard of that one before. If your really concerned just replace them with ARP studs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboboost Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Simply put, the odds of your lugs "snapping" due to the sheer torque of spinning the tires is almost zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 4 lugs will just snap, causing major problems. Whats wrong with that happening?? :) Yeah I havent heard of the studs breaking, only problems related to high torque Ive seen are more about the drivetrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 The 4 bolts on either end of the 1/2 shaft would snap first, and I have never seen or heard of that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 The 4 bolts on either end of the 1/2 shaft would snap first, and I have never seen or heard of that happening. I would think that the U-joints would go before anything else. HP doesn't cause bolts to shear, its the torque and how quickly its applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJLamberson Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 The only problem your going to have is traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Since your room mate said ZX's aren't worth "jack diddley" and now this... I'm wondering if perhaps you should stop listening to your room mate. Just a thought. Also, if you'll notice, this car has 4 lugs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 From a theoretical standpoint anything is possible. Benchracing... At Bonneville if you run over 200mph, you are required to run a 5 lug on the car, amongst other things. But traction will be alimiting factor on most cars getting towards the 'snapping' potential. As I recall, didn't the Turbo Electramotive cars have 700+HP and four lugs... It's a moot argument. Benchracing theories sound good, by the water cooler, all day long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-rib-73-240z Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 thats what i was thinking, i will probably just change them to arp studs. my room mates 240 has been only running like every other 2 months outa this year so far.... just a few months ago he put a schnieder stage 4 cam, and a l26 head on is l28. i dont think theres enough torque in a high compression 383 to snap them even if i could, im only aiming for about a 300-400 hp/torque level in my 240 (weekend car not daily drivin) thanks for the info. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janaka Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 halfshaft = Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Maybe if you substituted the wheels for a metal plate bolted to the floor with appropriate frame-shop anchors. You know the plate, something say 1/2" thick and bored to accept the bolt pattern. Then do the same up front, so it can't do the evedentiary photo wheelie... Then, rev it up, and dump the clutch and see what happens. My bet is a universal joint fractures before the studs shear. And something in the driveshaft or clutch may slip before the studs shear. And if all else fails, a stubaxle may shear or twist off at the splines before the studs shear. But it would be a fun test to do.... And then you can point, showing it IS possible to shear four M12 Hardened studs using a softer drive axle flange. Then again, if the studs are old, and stressed from 25 years of impact-gun tire changes, have stretched threads and latent cracking at the root of the first thread coming out of the axle flange... (see where I'm going with this on the andcdotal failure commentary that sometimes mentions this?) Nevertheless, still a hoot to do in the back yard on the driveway. Video it, and put it on You Tube! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin280zx Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 My room mate said that after a certain amount of horsepower/torque the 4 lugs will just snap, causing major problems. i was wondering if this was true. i was planing on putting a high compression 383 sbc in my 240z. also if he's right and the stock 4 lugs can not take over a certain horsepower/torque level, whats the backspacing on 80's 300zx brakes (to do the toyota 4x4/300zx brake swap) any help would be greatly apreciated, knowing me this is posted somewhere and my inability to think of the right magic words to search for the right threads via search button Thomas (i hope i spelled everything right) I hope not because I have 4 lugs. haha. As many v-8 z's there are no reportings of that yet? Or mustangs? There's probably a greater chance if the lugs back off somehow and the wheel shifts outward putting more stress on the studs. Wouldn't you think tony D? I've had people tell me I'll shear mine off which are long arp studs. Sadly those same people also ask if my car is fuel injected while they're staring right at the carburetor. Then they get mad when I tell them its a stock rear and suspension because they think I'm feeding them BS. It confuses them I guess. I thought I was close to right. Loose wheels equal shearing of lugs. It's the same principle of why I can put a 10mm ring on my lsd with out spacers. Static Friction. http://www.txwerks.com/images/Install_Docs/Wheel%20Stud-Nut%20Installation%20Notes.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danj Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 This thread was well covered in every aspect of the load bearing system. The old adage really applies here. The chain (complete driveline) is only as strong as it's weakest link. I think it is obvious from the knowledgeable and experienced responses to this thread that there are many other links in this chain that would break before the 4-lug wheel would ever be a problem. DanJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-rib-73-240z Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 I hope not because I have 4 lugs. haha. As many v-8 z's there are no reportings of that yet? Or mustangs? There's probably a greater chance if the lugs back off somehow and the wheel shifts outward putting more stress on the studs. Wouldn't you think tony D? I've had people tell me I'll shear mine off which are long arp studs. Sadly those same people also ask if my car is fuel injected while they're staring right at the carburetor. Then they get mad when I tell them its a stock rear and suspension because they think I'm feeding them BS. It confuses them I guess. I thought I was close to right. Loose wheels equal shearing of lugs. It's the same principle of why I can put a 10mm ring on my lsd with out spacers. Static Friction. http://www.txwerks.com/images/Install_Docs/Wheel%20Stud-Nut%20Installation%20Notes.pdf yea i have no clue why he said it, i just wanted to know if it was true, i got really mad because i wanted to put a sbc in my 240z, im like its my car... but he finaly came around when i told him off. but thanks for the help all, makes it easier to get my 240 actually running, and driveable, less i have to work on it about what amount of torque do the halfshaft u joints satrt to say goodbye? (or break) or is this not the right spot? nice 280zx there datsun280zx Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-rib-73-240z Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 This thread was well covered in every aspect of the load bearing system. The old adage really applies here. The chain (complete driveline) is only as strong as it's weakest link. I think it is obvious from the knowledgeable and experienced responses to this thread that there are many other links in this chain that would break before the 4-lug wheel would ever be a problem. DanJ yup, it was i thank everyone for there replies and knowledge givin. i think i will just get some arp studs for mine i think (hope) that will work. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 about what amount of torque do the halfshaft u joints satrt to say goodbye? (or break) or is this not the right spot? nice 280zx there datsun280zx Thomas I can not give you an exact amount. Mostly it depends on what you are going to do. If you run slicks on a prepped track with a tranny lock, not much. Use them till they break and post it;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnjdragracing Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 about what amount of torque do the halfshaft u joints satrt to say goodbye? (or break) or is this not the right spot? nice 280zx there datsun280zx Thomas I can not give you an exact amount. Mostly it depends on what you are going to do. If you run slicks on a prepped track with a tranny lock, not much. Use them till they break and post it;)We went a 9.21 @153 mph on stock stuff (haftshafts,and stock 4 lug stub axles)At that time we were at 698hp at the rear tires.Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Can't argue with that:). I must say though, your case is a tiiiiiiiid bit extraordinary;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted October 26, 2008 Administrators Share Posted October 26, 2008 Can't argue with that:). I must say though, your case is a tiiiiiiiid bit extraordinary;) It is how, (more accurately, how abruptly), the power is applied to the tires plays a HUGE role in the busted parts we see. It is quite obvious that JnJ is putting that power to the tires a bit more gently than others that have busted parts using less sticky street tires and half the torque/HP JnJ is producing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.