Stock 7MGTE

[Gritz]

Im still trying to figure why so many people cry for tq in a 2300lbs car...Maybe when i get done with my swap "the tq less wonder" i'll understand..

[7MGFORCE]

Im still trying to figure why so many people cry for tq in a 2300lbs car...Maybe when i get done with my swap "the tq less wonder" i'll understand..

 

cz its always fun to have more torq.

 

not car related but i prefer riding my rc51 over other litter bikes b/c of the trq factor. its just more fun. and thats on a 500lbs and still people complain about not having enough trq.

[Gritz]

Yeah my 88 starion with the 2.6lt 4 is a tq monster.. in stock trim it makes like 235tq @2300rpm..i never dynoed with mods i have but I'm sure I'm making around 300ft tq....Top end on those motors suck though...Its fun to dive daily cause i don't have to wined it hard to get up to speed..My z on the other had will be more of a street and strip car..

 

At what rpm does the 7m make max tq? I know it can vary a little..

[Clifton]

yah the drawback of both the vh45 and the 1uz, are that they both have crappy flowing heads. If you want to go v8, then go with an LS series motor, because their is way more aftermarket support, and the t56 bolts right up. If you want an I6, then go 1jz or 2jz.

 

Come on. Stop the internet rumors. VH45's flow pretty good. VVT 1U's flow pretty good.

 

This is from one guy.

 

 

 

It has been a very common rumor on here for a long time that the 1JZ head flows better than the 2JZ. This has lead to alot of people doing the 1.5JZ swap or atleast wanting to. Over the last few weeks I have been building a 1JZ, including porting the head, for a customer. I flowed the head on our SF-600 flow bench before and after I ported the head.

 

A stock 2JZ flows about 238in and 154ex at .400 lift. A stock 1JZ head flows 215in and 133ex at .400 lift. After I did a good street port job including reworking the chamber the 1JZ head flowed 230in and 152ex at .400. This should put to rest the idea that the 1JZ head is better than the 2JZ, because the fact of the matter is that it is not better.

 

Erin

 

This from another.

 

This is from a Pontiac magazine.

 

The stock LS1 cylinder heads fitted on the '04 GTO were good for a factory head. After all, not many factory cylinder heads can claim they can flow 233 cfm on the intake and 180 cfm on the exhaust at 0.600 inch lift at 28 inches test pressure.

 

This from another board

 

LS1 heads flow in the 260 CFM range stock

LS6 heads flow in the 280 CFM range stock

 

Based on that I would say a 4.5L (560cc per cyl) head that easily flows as much as a 5.7 (710cc per cylinder) LS1 or maybe a tad more and flows as much as a highly worshiped 2JZ (500cc per cylinder), but has 50% more disclplacement. I don't know where you get "crappy flowing head" from.

[Clifton]

how are you setting up the turbo manifold? and what tranny will you be using?

 

I'll either use the stock flanges with a log mani or route to a turbo collector. I already have a Z32 n/a trans (cheap), just need a Mazworx adapter.

[timbo1jz]

At formula D this year, I was talking to a guy with a 240sx with a vh45 twin turbo that was close to completion, but not running yet, and he was saying that the drawback of the motor was the small chamber heads, and that it needed a a lot of head work to be efficient with the turbos. I work for nissan and have worked on those motors before. They are very smooth in operation, but leak like bitches. They don't offer hardly any aftermarket as far as cams,pistons, rods, ect., and almost everything is going to have to be custom (EFI, turbo manifolds, ect..) An LS motor, will make more power for the price, and is way easier to swap. Plus, you get the benifit of the t56. LS motor hands down.

[Gritz]

At formula D this year, I was talking to a guy with a 240sx with a vh45 twin turbo that was close to completion, but not running yet, and he was saying that the drawback of the motor was the small chamber heads, and that it needed a a lot of head work to be efficient with the turbos. I work for nissan and have worked on those motors before. They are very smooth in operation, but leak like bitches. They don't offer hardly any aftermarket as far as cams,pistons, rods, ect., and almost everything is going to have to be custom (EFI, turbo manifolds, ect..) An LS motor, will make more power for the price, and is way easier to swap. Plus, you get the benifit of the t56. LS motor hands down.

 

 

Not to mention if it's tq that you like, the LS motor will make more and sooner...Plus the redline is around 6500rpm i believe..

[ARZ_]

Back to the point. I went for a ride in Cliftons car when he still had the Supra intercooler and the CT26 and it was fast. At that point it was the fastest Z I had ever been in. Even old school V8 swaps didnt feel as drivable and polished as the 7MGTE swap felt.

 

I believe the 7M does have its problems but if you keep this motor below 18 psi with the proper mods and safe tuning you will be well into 400 RWHP and WAY faster than many other street cars.

 

I agree if you can get the 7MGTE for cheap I would do it. Since you are getting the donor from someone doing a complete 2JZ swap you should get the harness and ECU and that will save you some money.

 

Also I agree, very few stock transmissions are known to handle this kind of HP. At the latest SILV 08 (Supras Invade Las Vegas) We witnessed a 7M with R154 put down 990 RWHP. Show me an L motor with any trans, that has done that.

 

If your goals are less than 500 WHP then I say this might be your cheapest route.

 

I hope Clifton doesn't take this personally, but I think Clifton is jaded about this motor because he has had a few problems with it. In all honesty, Clifton has had a safe tune for a long time and holds this motor to an unrealistic reliability standard, because the L motor is so reliable and stout. I know Clifton has seen well over 32 psi on his 7M and at one point saw 39 PSI on the dyno. I hope the VQ is reliable for him and dosent cost him too much to make it reliable, but I think you would be hard pressed to put 32+ PSI to any motor and get the same reliability out of it Clifton has.

 

His car and mine are no trailer queens or Dyno showoffs. Both of us regularly drive the pi$$ out of them and all summer he runs his at 26-28 (I think) and all winter he is well into the 30 PSI range, as far as I know he runs his at 32 psi when its cool out. but not 100% sure.

 

Obviously he will need less boost to get to the same HP with a VQ, and I cant wait to see how it goes for him, and will offer any help he needs, but usually he never needs help.

[jeeper42]

Back to the point. I went for a ride in Cliftons car when he still had the Supra intercooler and the CT26 and it was fast. At that point it was the fastest Z I had ever been in. Even old school V8 swaps didnt feel as drivable and polished as the 7MGTE swap felt.

 

I believe the 7M does have its problems but if you keep this motor below 18 psi with the proper mods and safe tuning you will be well into 400 RWHP and WAY faster than many other street cars.

 

I agree if you can get the 7MGTE for cheap I would do it. Since you are getting the donor from someone doing a complete 2JZ swap you should get the harness and ECU and that will save you some money.

 

Also I agree, very few stock transmissions are known to handle this kind of HP. At the latest SILV 08 (Supras Invade Las Vegas) We witnessed a 7M with R154 put down 990 RWHP. Show me an L motor with any trans, that has done that.

 

If your goals are less than 500 WHP then I say this might be your cheapest route.

 

I hope Clifton doesn't take this personally, but I think Clifton is jaded about this motor because he has had a few problems with it. In all honesty, Clifton has had a safe tune for a long time and holds this motor to an unrealistic reliability standard, because the L motor is so reliable and stout. I know Clifton has seen well over 32 psi on his 7M and at one point saw 39 PSI on the dyno. I hope the VQ is reliable for him and dosent cost him too much to make it reliable, but I think you would be hard pressed to put 32+ PSI to any motor and get the same reliability out of it Clifton has.

 

His car and mine are no trailer queens or Dyno showoffs. Both of us regularly drive the pi$$ out of them and all summer he runs his at 26-28 (I think) and all winter he is well into the 30 PSI range, as far as I know he runs his at 32 psi when its cool out. but not 100% sure.

 

Obviously he will need less boost to get to the same HP with a VQ, and I cant wait to see how it goes for him, and will offer any help he needs, but usually he never needs help.

 

What internals are you and clifton running?

[7MGFORCE]

Back to the point. I went for a ride in Cliftons car when he still had the Supra intercooler and the CT26 and it was fast. At that point it was the fastest Z I had ever been in. Even old school V8 swaps didnt feel as drivable and polished as the 7MGTE swap felt.

 

I believe the 7M does have its problems but if you keep this motor below 18 psi with the proper mods and safe tuning you will be well into 400 RWHP and WAY faster than many other street cars.

 

I agree if you can get the 7MGTE for cheap I would do it. Since you are getting the donor from someone doing a complete 2JZ swap you should get the harness and ECU and that will save you some money.

 

Also I agree, very few stock transmissions are known to handle this kind of HP. At the latest SILV 08 (Supras Invade Las Vegas) We witnessed a 7M with R154 put down 990 RWHP. Show me an L motor with any trans, that has done that.

 

If your goals are less than 500 WHP then I say this might be your cheapest route.

 

I hope Clifton doesn't take this personally, but I think Clifton is jaded about this motor because he has had a few problems with it. In all honesty, Clifton has had a safe tune for a long time and holds this motor to an unrealistic reliability standard, because the L motor is so reliable and stout. I know Clifton has seen well over 32 psi on his 7M and at one point saw 39 PSI on the dyno. I hope the VQ is reliable for him and dosent cost him too much to make it reliable, but I think you would be hard pressed to put 32+ PSI to any motor and get the same reliability out of it Clifton has.

 

His car and mine are no trailer queens or Dyno showoffs. Both of us regularly drive the pi$$ out of them and all summer he runs his at 26-28 (I think) and all winter he is well into the 30 PSI range, as far as I know he runs his at 32 psi when its cool out. but not 100% sure.

 

Obviously he will need less boost to get to the same HP with a VQ, and I cant wait to see how it goes for him, and will offer any help he needs, but usually he never needs help.

 

dang his running high @ss boost its no wonder he would run into some problem with this motor. shoot i was talking about 17-20 psi here with pump gas. but above 20 on pump gas that a risk of detonation. i have hit 26psi before on my old setup and that sh!t felt crazy but i was too afraid to blow my motor. i do understand that a good tune is what will keep the HG alive but what are you guys running to run high boost on pump gas? meth inj?

[ARZ_]

What internals are you and clifton running?

I have forged JE pistons, and Eagle rods. He has JE pistons and stock rods.

dang his running high @ss boost shoot i was talking about 17-20 psi here with pump gas. i have hit 26psi before on my old setup and that sh!t felt crazy but i was too afraid to blow my motor.

You ran 26 psi on pump gas?!?! Man you were lucky, and correct to be afraid.

 

anyways what are you running to run high boost on pump gas? meth inj?

Yea its something like that. They are only safe to about 18 psi on pump gas in the summer. For dyno runs, its race gas and secret sauce. Except that 23psi in my sig was on pump gas.

[7MGFORCE]

I have forged JE pistons, and Eagle rods. He has JE pistons and stock rods.

 

You ran 26 psi on pump gas?!?! Man you were lucky, and correct to be afraid.

 

Yea its something like that. They are only safe to about 18 psi on pump gas in the summer. For dyno runs, its race gas and secret sauce. Except that 23psi in my sig was on pump gas.

 

even at 23 on pump thats risky without meth injection or something.

 

 

and ya it was when i was setting up my apex avcr for some reason i set it at 18 psi and spike to 26. it was on 100 octain pump. i did about two pulls since at first i was like "must be reading wrong" lol so when i punch it again and i looked on my gauge and it read about 26 psi.

 

 

off topic question

 

how reliable would the l28et be at 400whp? as im only aiming at 400whp for now and if the l28et can reach 400whp at lower than 18psi of boost i may change my mind and go l28 instead on 7m.

 

ive been looking info of the bw t5 tran vs 280zx 5-speed and was curious whats the max trq they can handle? i cant seem to find that info on the forums.

[7MGFORCE]

ARZ i was looking at your build and was curious after all that mods why didnt you go front facing intake manifold? it would eliminate alof of that piping from the ic to intake manifold. plus i believe it flows a bit better than stock.

[ARZ_]

even at 23 on pump thats risky without meth injection or something.

I never said it was without meth.

 

off topic question

 

how reliable would the l28et be at 400whp? as im only aiming at 400whp for now and if the l28et can reach 400whp at lower than 18psi of boost i may change my mind and go l28 instead on 7m.

Clifton has had an L28 over 400 WHP for a long time, its a track car and it does seem to use up Transmissions and other stuff. I would ask him, but opportunity for you to get a very reliable trans and clutch out of the 7M and R154 combo shouldn't be over looked. You will pay for this reliability with a weight penalty. See my post here http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125246 I think the reliability and clutch options are well worth it.

ive been looking info of the bw t5 tran vs 280zx 5-speed and was curious whats the max trq they can handle? i cant seem to find that info on the forums.

I know they were supposed to be a bit more stout, but I haven't seen any info on them either.

 

ARZ i was looking at your build and was curious after all that mods why didnt you go front facing intake manifold? it would eliminate alot of that piping from the ic to intake manifold. plus i believe it flows a bit better than stock.

I was most interested in finishing the car and getting it running. If you went for a ride you wouldn't worry about the length for a second. Yea it could be done cleaner and yea I could redo it, but its CRAZY fast the way it is, and it would be a ton of effort for very little HP gain.

[jeeper42]

Who makes a forward facing manifold for the 7m?

[Clifton]

dang his running high @ss boost its no wonder he would run into some problem with this motor.

 

The wastegate line coming off was what killed it. It was on stock pistons for a few years with no problems at that boost. I don't blame the ring lands for breaking, it would have happened to any motor. When the line came off it detonated about a hundred times before I got out of it. Don't trust 1/4" wastegate lines without real hose clamps at 30 psi:mrgreen:.

 

 

 

FWIW, FFM's don't make more power unless the runner length has been shortened.

[7MGFORCE]

The wastegate line coming off was what killed it. It was on stock pistons for a few years with no problems at that boost. I don't blame the ring lands for breaking, it would have happened to any motor. When the line came off it detonated about a hundred times before I got out of it. Don't trust 1/4" wastegate lines without real hose clamps at 30 psi:mrgreen:.

 

 

 

FWIW, FFM's don't make more power unless the runner length has been shortened.

 

well with the ffim though it would also upgrade the throttle body and make it less of a piping. with my old set up it felt quicker than stock. but that was with bigger throttle body and such so yea

[williamb82]

ive got a 7mgte in my mk2 supra. for stock turbo and electronics. if you get a good dp and full 3in exhaust, fmic, hardpipes and a walbro 255lph fuel pump your good for ~300rwhp. get a 60-1 trim turbo, lex maf, and 550cc/min injectors and a safc2 and your good to ~400rwhp. go megasquirt as alot of people do and the 60-1 ct26 should get you close to 450 wit hthe mods mentioned on a good tune. a metal hg and arp head studs is a must. i have a hks 1.2mhg and arp studs tq'ed to 90lbs. im guessing ~380rwhp at the moment at 20psi(ct26 upgraded with 57trim compressor wheel). stock mk3 i/c. this is in my 84 mk2 supra. i have a megasquirt2 like clifton to install so should be able to bump that up a bit. also have other mods like a 24x12x4 fmic and a new intake mani with 75mm tb im building for it at the moment. also i have a gt4082 with 0.68 a/r housing to put on it later. i figure all that should get ~550rwhp on stock internals. the 7mgte is a much better motor then its given credit for. problem is most people didnt maintian them properly. and people try to go cheap when modding and blow them up. do it right and as clifton has proven they make alot of power.

[Rennat]

The wastegate line coming off was what killed it. It was on stock pistons for a few years with no problems at that boost. I don't blame the ring lands for breaking, it would have happened to any motor. When the line came off it detonated about a hundred times before I got out of it. Don't trust 1/4" wastegate lines without real hose clamps at 30 psi:mrgreen:.

 

 

 

FWIW, FFM's don't make more power unless the runner length has been shortened.

 

 

I know im a noob as far as this site goes, but i just didnt want people to really think that by going FFIM on a 7m is a waste... heres the proof.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4780

 

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298899

 

18whp and 19ft/lbs of torque JUST from moving the throttle body to the front of the intake manifold... and it also increased the flow.

 

I think most of the advantages are from getting the cold air away from the hot ass turbo, which is why there were probably any sorts of gains. and then also you have a smoother flow into the manifold, its not just being forced and then pushed sideways like a mushroom.

[ShaggyZ]

I know im a noob as far as this site goes, but i just didnt want people to really think that by going FFIM on a 7m is a waste... heres the proof.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4780

 

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298899

 

18whp and 19ft/lbs of torque JUST from moving the throttle body to the front of the intake manifold... and it also increased the flow.

 

I think most of the advantages are from getting the cold air away from the hot ass turbo, which is why there were probably any sorts of gains. and then also you have a smoother flow into the manifold, its not just being forced and then pushed sideways like a mushroom.

 

That modification is pretty interesting but the dude is charging a pretty penny for essentially a hack job - with all of the "options" it comes out to nearly $800, quality FFIM manifold territory... or at least close enough it makes me consider spending what little more it would be to get a real nice piece. Regardless, I would consider doing the modification myself if I had a 7MGTE. I'm sure there is a lot more going than just those few flow numbers he showed; flow tests are much more involved. In other words, it might do terribly and uneven under varying pressures.