icarus Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 so i have been lusting for this 'ultimate internal wastegate' (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-023&Category_Code=WGT1), because the amount of fabwork and the space limitations of my s130s engine compartment have discouraged me from setting up an external wastegate system on my L28et powered zx... at some point i will be upgrading my turbo but for the time being i am using the stock garret (oil/water cooled) turbo that i am told is from a z31 turbo but is identical to the later units used in the s130 turbo cars. my question is rather elementary, and here it is: does the garret turbo in my car use the "ford 5 bolt" pattern that most (if not all?) of the non-OEM garrets use? and thus, will the ultimate internal wastegate bolt up to it? ive been searching but have been unable to find how to distinguish between the different 5-bolt orientations. so im hoping someone here can point me in the right direction. much thanks, in advance. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardkid280z Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Reminds me of the ebay auction I was watching for an internal wg exhaust housing for the GT35R/GT30R: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching&item=200305363919&viewitem= About the item you are looking at: a) I don't see how it works, are there any other pictures of it? I think the 5 bolt pattern used on the nissan T3 turbos is unique/different from that "ford" 5 bolt pattern. Non-OEM Garrett's is not very descriptive, it doesn't really specify anything. I too am very interested in an upgraded turbo setup while maintaining the internal wastegate for ease of installation and simplicity in the engine bay. The only concern I have is the flow limitations and the disruption introduced by the wastegate causing back pressure at the turbine outlet. Are these concerns enough to warrant staying away from internal wastegate setups? Or do IWG turbos do a decent job? icarus, instead of spending $200 on that, just get a bigger turbo. Many are out there with internal wastegates. I think that thing is a waste of money; don't get me wrong, I'm sure it would be a nice upgrade, and would make more power, especially if you are coming from a stock downpipe (3" >>> 2 1/4"). I just think your money would be better spent on a whole new turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The Nissan turbine housing is different from the Ford 5-Bolt, so the exhaust housing would have to be swapped - it is a .63 A/R housing. Someone is using this on an S130 already...but he got a new turbo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icarus Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 thank you brad, i just needed to know if the stock zx turbo 5-bolt pattern was the same as the "ford" 5-bolt, thats all that i was trying to figure out... boardkid, here is a link to another thread on this forum where someone has used this 'ultimate internal wastegate' on their s130 (http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=124360). scroll a ways down the page and youll see his pictures of this wastegate unit. you can clearly see in the pictures that this is FAR superior setup to most, if not ALL, of the internal wastegates commonly available. i see what you are saying about upgrading the turbo itself, and i will certainly be doing that in the future, but i was hoping to be able to upgrade my downpipe/exhaust now and then bolt it straight up to my new turbo when i get there... but no such luck it appears. you mentioned that you too are looking for a turbo/performance upgrade while maintaining an internal wastegate setup. so i think that you should not be so quick to dismiss this as a good (if not the best) prefabbed option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcambron Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I like the looks of this and cleaning up that area of the engine bay but it seems like the extra distance will "tighten" up the bends on your downtube if useing large, 3" and bigger tubing? I am still looking for ideas like this I just don't like my options , currently have a TIAL EW and plan to vent back into the downtube. Keep the ideas comeing I have to pull the trigger pretty soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardkid280z Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 thank you brad, i just needed to know if the stock zx turbo 5-bolt pattern was the same as the "ford" 5-bolt, thats all that i was trying to figure out... It's too bad it is a different bolt pattern. If it was the same, it would make a nice mod to the stock turbo. But since it's not, and as I see in hughdogz' thread (very nice build, btw) you need a different turbo to be able to use this IW setup. What I was saying was, for the money you're putting down, might as well upgrade the whole turbo, but that point is moot now since you have to upgrade the turbo (or at least the exhaust housing) to use this setup. For a cheapo solution, I guess you could use a T-bird/SVO turbo (or other?) if it has a T3 inlet and that 5-bolt outlet, but I still think you'd be better off getting a whole new turbo. boardkid, here is a link to another thread on this forum where someone has used this 'ultimate internal wastegate' on their s130 (http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=124360). scroll a ways down the page and youll see his pictures of this wastegate unit. you can clearly see in the pictures that this is FAR superior setup to most, if not ALL, of the internal wastegates commonly available. i see what you are saying about upgrading the turbo itself, and i will certainly be doing that in the future, but i was hoping to be able to upgrade my downpipe/exhaust now and then bolt it straight up to my new turbo when i get there... but no such luck it appears. you mentioned that you too are looking for a turbo/performance upgrade while maintaining an internal wastegate setup. so i think that you should not be so quick to dismiss this as a good (if not the best) prefabbed option. I would have to see some clear evidence of how this internal wastegate is "far superior" to others, because I don't see at all how this Ultimate IW would be superior to the one I posted on ebay. The one I posted is for a different turbo/exhaust housing, and I would be curious to see how they compare. It would be really interesting to see if they even have the same bolt pattern, I have no idea what that 5-bolt pattern is on the Garrett turbo outlets... Looking more closely, it does look like it is the same. If so, I apologize for my first reply where I shot down your term usage of "non-OEM Garrett bolt pattern". If that is the same as the Ford pattern, that may be the Standard Garrett 5-bolt pattern. The one you posted appears to be a cast piece, while the one I posted appears to be welded. I have heard that the new Garrett exhaust housings (and possibly wategate attachments/valve housings, whatever they are called) are made with high Nickel content (Ni-Resist: trade mark name for high nickel content cast iron) to resist warping and corrosion at the high temps that gasoline engines see vs. diesel turbo motors. Anyway, I am just looking for information and trying to figure what would be best for me. Not necessarily for you are anyone else. Thanks for responding and helping me get information. And, back to trying to help YOU out , like I said, you might check some stock turbos from T-birds or Mustang SVOs to see if you can get one of their exhaust housings for cheap, swap the exhaust onto your turbo, and use the UIW you've been lusting after. That would help you setup your 3" exhaust with V-band, but it may not fit with your new turbo later if the V-band outlet of the new turbo is in a slightly different position. So it might or might not bolt straight to a new/different turbo later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I would have to see some clear evidence of how this internal wastegate is "far superior" to others, because I don't see at all how this Ultimate IW would be superior to the one I posted on ebay. The one I posted is for a different turbo/exhaust housing, and I would be curious to see how they compare. It would be really interesting to see if they even have the same bolt pattern, I have no idea what that 5-bolt pattern is on the Garrett turbo outlets... Looking more closely, it does look like it is the same. If so, I apologize for my first reply where I shot down your term usage of "non-OEM Garrett bolt pattern". If that is the same as the Ford pattern, that may be the Standard Garrett 5-bolt pattern.The one you posted appears to be a cast piece, while the one I posted appears to be welded. The ATP ultimate wastegate was originally a welded piece. Then they switched to cast for ease of manufacturing I guess. I suspect that the ebay one may very well be an early ATP unit that the seller bought but never used... Nigel '73 240ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thanks to boardkid280z for drawing my attention to this thread. I'll try to answer his questions here. I have the ATM ultimate wastegate on my GT35R. You can see it on my project page here: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=143333. It's not running yet so I can't answer your boost creep questions. I went this route because it's a clean install and I didn't really want to modify the exhaust manifold for a external wastegate. Big-phil used a bolt-on wastegate adapter for his setup. The casting has a design flaw and he had to end up welding it on anyway. I have the cast piece. I'm guessing that ATP went with a casting to reduce costs. The non-recurring cost of a casting is high but once you have the die designed/fabricated you can produce large quantities at relatively low cost compared to hand welding. The wastegate port in my housing is 1" diameter and the flapper is 1.31" diameter. The housing port isn't 1" all the way thru and has some sharp edges. I'm going to open it up a little and smooth out the transitions. The casting is pretty smooth but the opening around the turbine exit is slightly too small. I'm going to smooth that out too. I'll post pictures to my build page once I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Hi Boardkid, I measured the wastegate opening in my (early) Ford-style 5-bolt turbine housing and it is a smidgen over 13/16" diameter. The ATP puck I have is a smidgen under 1 5/16" diameter. So, the overlap is about 1/4" around. I also cleaned up the area where the formed reducer piece meets the flanges: Thanks to BRAAP for suggesting this! I don't know if I have boost creep yet or not...my car is still on jackstands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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