g00kb0i Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I have a question for those of you who are running the AZC rear adj. arms with the AZC dog legs. The AZC dog legs have a tapped hole on the bottom cap where the rear arm is held. After you mount the arms completely do you unbolt the caps of the dog legs and drill a hole and re-intall the caps and put a bolt in? I worry about the movement of the arms durring high loads and if i drill a hole in the actual arm, it will significantly stop the possibilty of the rotation of the rear arms. Is this over kil or is actually done? Here is a pic if it helps any ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMWHYR0HEN Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Have you contacted Dave at AZC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Could try searching too. There's been a bit of discussion about those arms. I'm not a fan, nor do I care for the 1/4" bolt to hold the arm in place that Dave suggested a while back. By the way you have the rod ends out too far. According to Aurora bearings, you're supposed to have 1.5 x the diameter threaded in. That leaves you with a max outward adjustment of 5/16". http://www.aurorabearing.com/technical-resources/faqs/default.html * What is the minimum thread engagement required to support the advertised load ratings in the Aurora Bearing Company catalog? * The minimum thread engagement is 1.5 times the major thread diameter unless otherwise stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g00kb0i Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Have you contacted Dave at AZC? I called but he didnt answer and more so, I want some opinions of those that aren't trying to sell something. I could always sell these and go with the MMS arms that many seem to like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I could always sell these and go with the MMS arms that many seem to like. Or, buy a pair of the new TechnoToy LCA's. Those look nice and the price is right, and you won't have to end up waiting a 1/2 a year to get them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g00kb0i Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Could try searching too. There's been a bit of discussion about those arms. I'm not a fan, nor do I care for the 1/4" bolt to hold the arm in place that Dave suggested a while back. By the way you have the rod ends out too far. According to Aurora bearings, you're supposed to have 1.5 x the diameter threaded in. That leaves you with a max outward adjustment of 5/16". http://www.aurorabearing.com/technical-resources/faqs/default.html Yes sir! That's how they came and I have not adjusted anything yet, just test fitting a few bits. I have actually read the thread your referring to. Dave actually posted what he thought, but again, I rather have the opinions of people who are "unbiased." Its hard talking to Dave when he's busy and some what agitated. By no means is he blowing me off but he seems set on his design and belittles you. That's just me though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I could always sell these and go with the MMS arms that many seem to like. If you're looking for other alternatives: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=129154 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Interesting. Does anyone have any pics of proper race cars running fabricated rear control arms and strut suspension? I know EMWHYR0HEN has indicated he did his research, which I have no reason to doubt in the slightest, it might just be useful to have a thread with a bunch of examples from elsewhere. Or does the other thread have that... *goes to check* Dve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMWHYR0HEN Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 If your going to get rid of those have you seen Justin's group buy? http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=140338 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Interesting. Does anyone have any pics of proper race cars running fabricated rear control arms and strut suspension? I know EMWHYR0HEN has indicated he did his research, which I have no reason to doubt in the slightest, it might just be useful to have a thread with a bunch of examples from elsewhere. The most common Z race car is the ITS car which isn't allowed any modifications to the control arm. Likewise I don't think Street Prepared autoxers are allowed aftermarket arms. I think you can look for GT2 cars, EP cars, CP vintage cars, FP autoxers, and that's about it. Then you have to wonder how many of those guys are going to show you what they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g00kb0i Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 I probably would if it was anyone else selling it. Just how he handled the flares, no thanks. If your going to get rid of those have you seen Justin's group buy? http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=140338 Im going to try these out first and if it doesnt hold and im still alive, i will try differnt arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Jon, I wasn't just referring to zed cars. Surely there are other makes/models with struts in the rear? Good point about people possibly wanting to keep those under wraps. Gookboi, Fair enough not wanting to wait. Much better to spend money on crap and get it faster. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g00kb0i Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Gookboi, Fair enough not wanting to wait. Much better to spend money on crap and get it faster. Dave Any significant reasoning behind your belief that they're crap? It is one's word against another. Waiting was not the issue as there are other readily available LCA's for purchase. Dave supposedly has a few competitive racers that use his products with successful results. I understand that the possible modifications and fabrication done to make these LCAs work are unknown but Dave is more than happy to tell you his experiences and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 gookboi, Its a general statement about patience. As TonyD says, ``from tranqulity comes peach''. I like peaches. I wasn't dissing the AZC product, I'm sure its a great H-arm design; light, strong, shiny etc. But 74_5.0L_Z's paste from Milliken & Milliken here http://forums.hybridz.org/showpost.php?p=843271&postcount=22 I find a pretty convincing argument to the benefits to an A-arm design. Currently to get an A-arm design you can either make it yourself, or join Justin's group-buy. I find it odd that apparently a few people have signed up for the group-buy without maybe realizing the advantages, and the lack of an alternate off-the-shelf product. I'm sure the arms will be great. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Any significant reasoning behind your belief that they're crap? It is one's word against another. Waiting was not the issue as there are other readily available LCA's for purchase. Dave supposedly has a few competitive racers that use his products with successful results. I understand that the possible modifications and fabrication done to make these LCAs work are unknown but Dave is more than happy to tell you his experiences and advice. Please don't look at my arguments against this control arm setup as "my word against his". I am not anti-Dave and I don't take issue with everything he builds (see my persistent defense of his oil pan over the years). THIS part is crap. Big time crap. The only thing worse than the arm is the new craptastic strut assembly he's bolting them to. I'm not an engineer, but I tried to apply what meager engineering skills I have to the analysis of this part and come to the conclusion that I did. Don't take it as my word against his precisely because I'm not an expert. I don't want people to believe what I say because I have close to 10,000 posts here or used to be an admin. Those things don't make me right. Look at the arguments for and against the design and judge for yourself, do not just look at who it is making the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 What about making a bolt in mount kinda like Arizona Z's, but connected to keep them from moving around, and raising the inner pivot mounts. I haven't looked under the car, but you'd likely have to do some sheet metal mods to make this fit. Seems pretty easy really. You could even integrate the diff mounts into this cradle. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Without fleshing out all of the details, that looks like a huge step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Here's another option This is John Thomas' rear suspension. It bolts into place of the stock crossmember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 EDIT I failed to read the answers. That is obviously to hold the pivots tightly where you set them for alignment. Dave is well known for his big-brake kits, I trust his judgement on this. I see a few possible issues with that design. 1. The limited adjustment of the rod ends and the huge changes made by the "dogleg". 2. If you do run it in the position shown, you will have shortened the control arms by at least 1". 3. You would ideally want to run the inner pivots straight up to raise them, but can you do that?, and still clear the driveshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnosez Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I have installed a set of the AZ rear LCAs this winter and am just in the process of getting the car ready to go to the alignment shop. Like g00kb0i I too was concerned about the adjustments and the possibility of the tube to move under hard driving. I also contacted Dave and ended up getting some feedback from a time trial racer out on the West Coast who stated that he started out with the tube arms at or about level and after getting the alignment right drilled a hole and bolted it down. An earlier attempt using a pin resulted in it being seared. A concern for street cars? Not likely.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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