Tony D Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't arguing about the number, that AFM flow will support that, just not on the stock manifold in an N/A configuration... Raw flow numbers are fine and dandy for figuring out ultimate HP, but watch the vacuum (or Kpa) gauge while you're up around 7000 rpms and watch what happens to that plenum as an N/A. The engine will be 'very efficient' at that rpm, but it won't be flowing that kind of flow... It's like a car that shows 0"HG at WOT....by the time you're doing 170mph+, nobody is interested in looking at the vacuum gauge to realize at max speed and max power of the engine, for some reason they're back up around 9" (Or Higher) Hg of vacuum. John Coffee's engine was making numbers like that on a stock 'looking' manifold, but it was a lot more than 35mm runners and a widened plenum. I've seen high 180's on a stock EFI manifold, and if I'm not mistaken some that bumped 200HP (RWHP) but they were the exception and not the rule. BUT... For a TURBO, you can make a LOT more HP on the stock manifold than a lot of the 'experts' said was possible. 650+ in fact.... Sure, you could make more with another 30cfm of flow per runner (and at a lower indicated boost level) but at that point it's a matter of degrees and what you can practically put to the ground. I think the ported stock manifold on a ported head, with a cam will make more than your goals. I was just saying that porting for an intake flow of 220CFM at 25"Hg and 550" lift is simply overkill as the intake will only flow around 180-190. Buying a port job in that range is a LOT cheaper in most cases than one that would flow 220cfm on the intake... and really would be a waste of money unless you decided you would upgrade to a different, better flowing runner design some time in the future. Again, not arguing that 178-190 flow per runner would produce that HP range in theory... It's just in practical N/A application things work differently than the models. Since you are turbo that number (and your goal) is well within reach. Which is why I mentioned JeffP's setup making 300+ @ 10psi. That is with the flow figures I mention above (runner flow around 190cfm on the manifold, and +30CFM on the head) with cam. That should give you an idea of the potential of what you are building in practical, proven real-world numbers on an actual vechile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Ok having a look around i saw some other manifolds other people had made and i like the way they flowed them into the front cylinder. I could see a shortcoming on my first design So i changed it a bit today, I think it will look alot better and should flow alot more as well. Of course it needs to be welded up and its just held together with tape at the moment. Hopefully i will get it tacked together on wednesday and then will make the plates to over all other holes. Should be excellent when finshed The front where the throttle body was will be cut off once i have the pipes tacked in place and then i will make a plate to blend in the front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoorhs02 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I like! Complete change-over? What ideas are brewing? Progress is something to be had, less of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 I just think it will flow into number 1 better. And it will look a damn site better as well All good fun doing stuff like this. Knowing me i will make it then scrap it and make some thing else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 From my completely uneducated in the field of fluid dynamics perspective, it looks like it could benefit from a slightly straighter shot at cylinders #1 and 2, but I really like where you're going with this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 It would be better i am sure if it had a straighter shot However it would put the throttle body right out on the side towards the inner guard Its way better than it was and with boost behind it i think its going to be ok Thanks for the heads up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Well got the manifold all tacked up today and have to blend the old body in to the new plenum Then its a case of welding it all up and making a top and bottom plate and then manifold is finished On the bottom plate i will weld a thicker plate so i can put in the map sensor and vacum fittings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Oh yeah I wore the socks to keep every one happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Ok well i held it over the engine to see what it would look liek and to make sure the clearance was going to be ok. Its going to aim beside the radiator just where i want it. On friday i will be picking up the extra alloy plate i need to finish it off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben260Z Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Hi, just wanted to share some pictures of my manifold, its fun to see different contructions and what others are building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Sure alot of work for very little noticable gain. A Log manifold with the CORRECT runner size can be made for alot less work. You cannot get 35mm on a stock intake in the runners, and still have it be stable enough. This is cast, and it will get so thin, that it will crack. I have measured lots of stock intakes, and the od of the casting is just over 35 mil. You will never get 278 rwhp out of that manifold NA. POSSIBLY Crank HP, but even that is a long shot. If you want to keep the stock intake look (which you are not doing as you are enlarging the plentum with sheet), then do like MONZTER did and weld up the od of all of the runners, then enlarge the ID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Who is trying to get 278N/A ?. out of this manifold not me. Some one commented they thought i had between 170-190 cfm of flow so i took it in the middle and said that enough to make 278hp as per cfm / hp calculator. Read back on what i said i am going to do. When its all finshed i will bring it to a uniform finish with a catrdrige roll and then get it sand blasted to give it the rough finish. Sure its a lot of work when i could have just made a different manifold I am suprised to hear you say that when you could have just put an RB engine in your car and made a lot more power instead of chopping up those heads. But like you i am doing ii because i want to and i can. I thought you of all people would appreciate that I am starting to pick up on this web site there is a lot of negative people. Not just in here but all around hybridz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 I have been talking with the guy who owns this car as well. The guy who did alot of the engine work is actually may machiest that does the cylinder boring for my race engines i build ( jetski). They have seen my manifold and are more than happy with the job i have done to reach the power outputs i am looking to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Oh and nice job on your manifold there Ben. What pickup system are you using for the injection. Im guessing you have a crank trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'm following this thread for sure!.. looks really good so far and I cant wait to see the gains you are going to get with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Actually my motor makes more power than an RB with the same setup. My head flows more than modded RB heads, and I have more displacement. I built my heads because I wanted FLOW. My head flows 315 CFM at .55" of valve lift and 28" of water pressure. There is no L series head on this earth that flows that. That Is why I did what I did. If your going for different then you kinda will have a different setup (although there are alot of modded stock intakes, but monzters is the best setup for a stock intake). Its one thing to make a intake "look" stock, but have it flow alot. But when you are basicly just using the head flange and small runners, but putting tons of time in it, and it still does not look stock, seems counter-intuitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Actually my motor makes more power than an RB with the same setup. My head flows more than modded RB heads, and I have more displacement. I built my heads because I wanted FLOW. My head flows 315 CFM at .55" of valve lift and 28" of water pressure. There is no L series head on this earth that flows that. That Is why I did what I did. If your going for different then you kinda will have a different setup (although there are alot of modded stock intakes, but monzters is the best setup for a stock intake). Its one thing to make a intake "look" stock, but have it flow alot. But when you are basicly just using the head flange and small runners, but putting tons of time in it, and it still does not look stock, seems counter-intuitive. So your saying that a modified ka head flows more than a modified rb26 head. Ok fine what ever works for you. Im not going to sit here and keyboard cowboy your decision to do what you have to pieces. Please dont do it to my decision to modify my stock intake manifold. Thank you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Remember this forum isnt just here for people to say "Looks great, nice job." Its not just to make people feel good. Its about constructive criticism, complimenting, discussing what works and what doesnt etc. You have to learn to not get your feelings hurt if someone thinks your doing something thats a waste of time, not beneficial, etc. I think its a cool project and am anxious to see the finished project. Should be cool. Also how will you be blending in the original TB flange to your new tubing at the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Its not a case of getting my feelings hurt.But heck if you dont like it then shut up. I could go into lots of peoples threads and bash them if i wanted to but i choose to not say a word. Tonyd came in and told me he wasnt sure about it . Thats fine I dont mind constructive criticsm. Heck i have been building race jetski engines for over 15 years now i know there is more than one way to skin a cat When some one comes in all arrogant like they are the finial word then i tend to get a bit pissed. But thanks for the heads up. I made the side panels today and will post a picture up later . Should be close to finished next week .Just have to work on the fuel rail after that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 this is the manifold with the side panels on Well sitting in there anyway Its almost ready to be welded shut now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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