z-ya Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 (edited) I am saying, however, that I have choices no OEM has. I don't have to build a mass produced tune, for a mass produced engine, driven by clueless and inattentive owners. I don't have to manage my risk with a conservative tune because two million people aren't going to drive it. I am in a position to closely match the tune to this specific engine. Keep in mind not all engines are *exactly* the same. Even BMW reserved their 'best' motors for the LTW cars. They didn't build 'special' engines, they mearly hand-picked them from the mass produced lot (and fitted them with alpha-n ) Additionally, standalone opens a few doors... turbocharging, cams, cam timing, intake, exhaust, etc. I haven't committed to how far I will go with this engine, but I want the choice. Ron, I agree with everything you say above (although the tuning a particular engine is easily handled by the factory ECU as long as it is in good mechanical condition). I guess my point to the comment was that many "think" that by swapping to an aftermarket ECU they can do a better job than the engineers that tuned it. And yes, in the peak power area I agree. Mainly because they have to warranty their product, so they tune more conservatively (not because they dont' know how). There are more factors at play in the commercial world, namely money. It is relatively easy (if you know what you are doing) to tune for max HP (get the most out of what you have). Drivability, economy, reliability, cold staring, etc. is an entirely different story. Engineers spend months full time tuning in these areas. And to think that we can tune in these areas in our spare time as good is unrealistic. Sure, there are exceptions to that fact (and Ron, you might be one of them ). It took me close to two years in my spare time getting a standalone to have the drivability of a new car. Getting max power took a few hours on the dyno. So that was my point. I think we can all agree that there is more to tuning an engine than just max power. We want to actually drive our projects on the street. Race engines are a different story. Because of he tight integration between the engine management and other electronics, standalone is probably the best choice. Pete Edited April 1, 2010 by z-ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted April 2, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted April 2, 2010 Mag's Merc Zcar vs Ron's BMW Zcar. I think Bob and I are both looking forward to that day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAG58 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 (edited) I think Bob and I are both looking forward to that day MMM.... a ///MZ. It's an excuse for me to stuff my taxi motor in AND visit the PNW. Just gotta get a good DD so I can get started... Full Disclosure: I fully plan on turbo-charging my car. If RTz's car is like surgery with the perfect scalpel, mine will be like surgery with a 20lb sledge. PanzerAce is planning on an ITB M104 though. Future Plans: Euro Powered Z car get together. Edited April 2, 2010 by MAG58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 (edited) This location puts the tranny about as high as practical, with the height of the output shaft about 1/8" lower than stock, and the motor longitudinally within an 1/8" of of the pictures above. If the rest of the swap was this easy, I'd have it done in a couple of weeks I noticed the same in my 280zx when installing the BMW v8.. though mounting the transmission like you show in this picture will make the 'ears' rip off the gearbox, you need to insulate them. I have seen it happen to all the v8 and m50b24 swapped e30's i have run into that swapped without insulating them. Seems like the s52 fits way nicer than a s62 or m44b62 does!! I sold my BMW v8 with 6 speed and dropped in a sbc i had laying around. I left all the mounts for the V8 in the zx and keeping an eye out for the newer N series v8 as the sump moved to the back !!! and HP moved up to the 300 range or 500 even if you get the twin turbo M versions! Ill be watching this thread closely! Edited April 4, 2010 by frank280zx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted April 5, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted April 5, 2010 ...though mounting the transmission like you show in this picture will make the 'ears' rip off the gearbox, you need to insulate them. I have seen it happen to all the v8 and m50b24 swapped e30's i have run into that swapped without insulating them. Hi Frank, The cause seems to be mixing stiff trans bushings with soft engine bushings (or some similar relative combination), allowing the drivetrain to torque-over and stress the ears. My plan is exactly opposite... use the soft OE Datsun trans bushings and poly engine mounts from Ireland Engineering... I can't say with absolute certainty this will avoid the failure, but I believe it will. It may seem stubborn of me to take this risk, but I do have a reason. As I'm sure you know, in high G corners, the trans moves laterally, and the rear shift mount doesn't, causing the oh-too-common BMW money shift. This approach *should* cure that demon. I sold my BMW v8 with 6 speed and dropped in a sbc i had laying around. Bummer. I was looking forward to seeing that one. I'll be waiting for the N series! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 (edited) Hi Frank, The cause seems to be mixing stiff trans bushings with soft engine bushings (or some similar relative combination), allowing the drivetrain to torque-over and stress the ears. My plan is exactly opposite... use the soft OE Datsun trans bushings and poly engine mounts from Ireland Engineering... I can't say with absolute certainty this will avoid the failure, but I believe it will. It may seem stubborn of me to take this risk, but I do have a reason. As I'm sure you know, in high G corners, the trans moves laterally, and the rear shift mount doesn't, causing the oh-too-common BMW money shift. This approach *should* cure that demon. Theoraticaly im with you .. haha well i guess you are the one roadtesting it I have SBC in now.. but a BMW engine will be in at some point.. i just dont have the time to fix the ods and ends right now.. If i do it again im going for the N series! Meanwhile i'll watch this build, as the N54B30 is fairly common here to and compared to the older M engines allot cheaper (between 3 and 4 K) and as powerfull especially with some schrek cams and a turbo upgrade . The N54B30 in stock form produces 306 hp (228 kW) and 295 ft·lbf/400 Nm according to BMW. Third party testing has revealed the engine is significantly underrated, producing 332 hp (248 kW) and 311 ft·lbf/422 Nm in one test. It seems right in place in the bay and it clears the sway bar!!.. What can i say im a sucker for Beemer engines! i might copy you in a ZX Edited April 6, 2010 by frank280zx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 16, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted May 16, 2010 Removed... Front/rear bumpers and shocks. Factory A/C (underhood components only). Spare tire & jack. Installed... 240 front bumper. MSA Type 1 air dam. 15x6.5 alloy wheels with 205/50/15 Potenza RE-11's. Dry weight w/full interior, L28E, and 5 speed... 2450lbs Looks like my target of 2500lbs should be do-able. Modeled up the Ron Davis radiator. I think I've settled on the mounts. I want to be able to bolt it up to the stock locations. So far this is the cleanest option I've come up with... I'm still hammering out the fan shroud.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 16, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted May 16, 2010 azcarbum was kind enough to import a set of Euro tails for me... Thanks Brian! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted May 23, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted May 23, 2010 Let the gutting begin... No turning back now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted June 1, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2010 Took a full day to prune the engine compartment harness... no more shunt, EGR, voltage reg., interlock, emergency switch, A/C controls, or ignition module. Also built the crossmember spacers (1/2"). I probably should have bought these from JTR ($25.00 shipped), but I had the material on hand and the milling machine made quick work of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONGO510 Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Ron, if you need a second set of hands for anything, or even just someone to swear at(lol), give me a call. I will be happy to give any aid needed. John(Mongo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted June 1, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted June 1, 2010 Thanks John If it would stop raining for more than 30 seconds, we could do a BBQ and dust off our bench racing skills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONGO510 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Sounds like fun! I've got a Raincoat! john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skib Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Ron, if you need a second set of hands for anything, or even just someone to swear at(lol), give me a call. I will be happy to give any aid needed. John(Mongo) ditto or Ill just bring beer and watch (aiming to be out sunday afternoon to get some things from Paul) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted June 5, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted June 5, 2010 Thanks Skib. Wife and I are still working out our plans for Sunday. Not sure if we'll be around or not. There's some Blue Bore in the Coke machine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted June 5, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted June 5, 2010 Finished up the mounts.... The trans. mount now offsets the drivetrain to the passenger side another 7/16", aligning directly with the diff. pinion flange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 (edited) Finished up the mounts.... The trans. mount now offsets the drivetrain to the passenger side another 7/16", aligning directly with the diff. pinion flange. Love the documentation on this as im sure i will do this (with the twin turbo engine or the m50b25) and in a ZX but he the rest is the same Edited June 6, 2010 by frank280zx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantaz Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 As a owner of a 77 z and a 97 BMW 328IS i am really really really really looking forward to the supercheap well built completly turnkey kit you will surely be selling this week to swap the bmw motor in to my beloved z. .... .... .... ... .. . cough cough. seriously though.. as much electronic foo foo as there is in my beemer ive been wishing someone with knowledge would do a write up on this for awhile know.. i love my z but love the smoothness and power of the beemer inline six. more posts and pics please =0) really regretting moving from portland now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted June 8, 2010 Author Administrators Share Posted June 8, 2010 As a owner of a 77 z and a 97 BMW 328IS i am really really really really looking forward to the supercheap well built completly turnkey kit you will surely be selling this week to swap the bmw motor in to my beloved z... Absolutely. Please deposit $19.95 in my paypal account more posts and pics please =0) If you insist First fit into my 260... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedc528 Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 (edited) Absolutely. Please deposit $19.95 in my paypal account If you insist First fit into my 260... Do you really have a swap manual!?! That would be way cool, not that I am planning a swap, but it would be awesome to just read through that thing. EDIT: Got way tooo excited about the S52 into Z swap that I didn't even read the post correctly! +1 what he said! Edited June 8, 2010 by mikedc528 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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