josh817 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Video: Blog with more 350+hp N/A Z's... http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/303321/blog/12705261/&ei=0-FbS4uTJ4_WNeaCyfsO&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAwQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/303321/blog/12705261/%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DQiG Tony D, get in here! I want to know what makes that car able to do what it does. Its driving me insane?! Whats going on in Japan?! Is it like a raised roof port job with a quality cam and a GOOD set of headers like the Kameari stepped ones or what? If you look at the dudes other videos you can watch all the drag vids too. EDIT: OH GOD its so good, its perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurePontiacKid Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 They're in Japan, that's how lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19762802+2 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Video: *insert audible noises of pleasure* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 It's old news in Japan... As they say "expand your mind...and your rpm peak" Apparently they haven't heard of the 7500 rpm limit on strokers due to that explodo-harmonic issue. Must only happen on export-bound engines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 I can't see 150hp more just because they can rev 1500-2000rpm more than the states. I read the description for the Kameari headers and they advertise a huge increase in power but I never believed it thoroughly... But I guess when you mix the large primaries which step down to something smaller, proper length, proper intake, proper cam, and a nutso port job, maybe 150hp more isn't such a crazy thought. Its such a mystery to me, the only thing I can really point out is that CAS turbo dizzy style and I know the Kameari ignition setup utilizes something that looks like that. A lot of those cars look like street rods too but I have a feeling its a track only thing... Point being, is it crazy to think that they're just running a pulley and not a balancer? It makes me wonder, a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I have been running a pulley and no balancer for years now, and bring it up to 8000 on a regular basis. Never any problems. Now the internals are all balanced out very close, or maybe just luck, maybe just a matter of time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 The only thing I don't like about balancers is the rubber. It deteriorates. I know a place that will rplace all the rubber and make your balancer like new for $100 however those rpm's... No sir... Don't they have liquid balancers so there is no rubber to break apart? Will a liquid one explode too? Anyway, Monzter your car is already making a good deal of power for a 2.4L and that still kind of blows my mind so I'm not surprised that I'm sitting here going what the hell at running a pulley. How close is close for your balancing? .5 grams? Edit: I looked around the dudes site... almost like stalking but not quite as creepy. Unique! That appears to be the Kameari can muffler which they say conjoined with their header will make a "big difference". Personally, the only big difference it would make is in my wallet. That muffler is over $1000 for us US of A'ers Looks like he can't make up his mind between nice expensive carbs or nice expensive EFI... Haha What is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_datto Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I've read, I think it was JeffP looked into a liquid filled balancer, but the people making them weren't keen on making ones for the L motor. I think because lack of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zx 2by2 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 So what would this set up run off of the injectors then add in the fuel from the carbs when theres more load on the engine? or just the opposite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Obviously my sarcasam was lost in my post. People can't see a lot of things. People couldn't see us picking up 40HP and 1000 rpms of useable horsepower running 45ITB's compared to 45mm webers. Really, what people do you know in the USA that run 50 Mikuinis or 55 DCOE Webers? They were on the streets back in 1985 in Japan. The class racing rules here in America limit development. The dominant paradigm then becomes what guys racing HERE do for the cars, and not what unfettered development produces. The development of horsepower in the USA stagnated in the late 70's due to this phenomenon. The turbo years with E-Motive were exciting, but then it all stopped as everybody racing moved on to the VG's. L Engines were in the 9's in the 80's in Japan. And the development continues. Just like guys running XO Class at Bonneville with Flathead Fords. Because you can't see it doesn't mean it can't be done. And if you think the rpm limit is only 1500 to 2000 above what most here in the USA run (that 7500 magical stroker limit the internets are all abuzz about everywhere) think again. My youtube video has us shifting at 9500. That doesn't mean that is where we have to shift. And it's not a terminal limit to our build's upper rpm range. "We have not yet experienced valve float" is all I'm going to say. If we had a higher lift cam, our powerband would be higher, as would our horsepower. But for a 10:1 CR engine, I think 105HP per liter is decent...down a bit on horsepower compared to our 2.8...but then again it had 14.75:1 CR. And it had more power on tap if we would have used a more agressive lift cam. There are people on the street running the lift we run. Oh trust me, there IS power to be had. And if you're building a full on drag engine----LOADS of power to be had. 150-200? Child's play with preparation. Child's play I say! But not if you live in the American Box. Expand that thought box like someone in the NHRA would, and think of how to apply it to L-Engines. This stuff really isn't rocket science, it's just not thought applicable because it's a big V8, and ours is a small 6... Specific things may not transfer, but theory in practice is universal in most cases! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 On my engine, I am not sure what the numbers were as far as balance, but I know the machinist is very particular and gets it very close. I am running only a pulley because I just did not care. I cant say I would recommend it. In fact, for my turbo motor I had a custom ATI pulley/balancer made. It uses a serpentine belt and has the TEC pickup wheel built in. A very nice part. I actually think I have just been lucky so far and it is just a matter of time. On the stock bottom end, when I first put on the modified head and fuel injection, you could feel the vibrations starting at 7000. Guess what happened? at the auto cross the engine went boom. I brought it home and realized the flywheel should not turn independently of the front pulley. Yes, snapped the crank at the last rod. I think part of the broken crank is on the counter at Motorsport auto. So , the new bottom end all balanced out has a totally different feel and no vibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Attached is the print of the Pulley I worked with ATI to custom build. A very nice part, but like I said, not cheap. I guess it was cheaper than another broken crank. I have not used it yet so I cant give you guys a report of its benefits SK050M-Model per changes.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 Obviously my sarcasam was lost in my post. People can't see a lot of things. People couldn't see us picking up 40HP and 1000 rpms of useable horsepower running 45ITB's compared to 45mm webers. Really, what people do you know in the USA that run 50 Mikuinis or 55 DCOE Webers? They were on the streets back in 1985 in Japan. The class racing rules here in America limit development. The dominant paradigm then becomes what guys racing HERE do for the cars, and not what unfettered development produces. The development of horsepower in the USA stagnated in the late 70's due to this phenomenon. The turbo years with E-Motive were exciting, but then it all stopped as everybody racing moved on to the VG's. L Engines were in the 9's in the 80's in Japan. And the development continues. Just like guys running XO Class at Bonneville with Flathead Fords. Because you can't see it doesn't mean it can't be done. And if you think the rpm limit is only 1500 to 2000 above what most here in the USA run (that 7500 magical stroker limit the internets are all abuzz about everywhere) think again. My youtube video has us shifting at 9500. That doesn't mean that is where we have to shift. And it's not a terminal limit to our build's upper rpm range. "We have not yet experienced valve float" is all I'm going to say. If we had a higher lift cam, our powerband would be higher, as would our horsepower. But for a 10:1 CR engine, I think 105HP per liter is decent...down a bit on horsepower compared to our 2.8...but then again it had 14.75:1 CR. And it had more power on tap if we would have used a more agressive lift cam. There are people on the street running the lift we run. Oh trust me, there IS power to be had. And if you're building a full on drag engine----LOADS of power to be had. 150-200? Child's play with preparation. Child's play I say! But not if you live in the American Box. Expand that thought box like someone in the NHRA would, and think of how to apply it to L-Engines. This stuff really isn't rocket science, it's just not thought applicable because it's a big V8, and ours is a small 6... Specific things may not transfer, but theory in practice is universal in most cases! I pestered you so you would finally open up and say more than 3 lines. Works like a charm. Thanks for your input Tony! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 As best I can tell, he's letting off at 8000-8500 in this vid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilli Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Amazing set-ups.. Would like to see one of those things in person! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 It's old news in Japan... As they say "expand your mind...and your rpm peak" Apparently they haven't heard of the 7500 rpm limit on strokers due to that explodo-harmonic issue. Must only happen on export-bound engines... I've always thought that the issue with making power higher in the rpm range was airflow, not valve float. Not to say valve float isn't an issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 So what would this set up run off of the injectors then add in the fuel from the carbs when theres more load on the engine? or just the opposite? Errr, that is a fuel injected ITB setup. Those are not carbs, FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 I've always thought that the issue with making power higher in the rpm range was airflow, not valve float. Not to say valve float isn't an issue... If Kameari is a branch off of that "motherland" engineering then: http://www.kameariusa.com/L6_SPLCylinderHeadUpgrade.php If you look it says 46mm intake and 38mm exhaust valves. A P90 has 44 and 36 I think... If thats the case, I would consider saving up to purchase that head since it is a complete kit... That is after college, in that little gap where I hopefully have a good job and no wife or kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 That probably wouldn't be out of place on one of these, I'd be kinda interested to see some flow numbers and close ups of things. Here's a fun time waster, go download the trial of engine analyser pro and try to design one of these engines, it's harder than it looks. The best I've done was 335hp at ~7k from a 3.1, using 1 fast z's ported p90 flow numbers+10%, 12.5:1 on ethanol assuming a welded and coated chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Why are you guys limiting yourselves to 12.5 to 1 CR? The drag guys are getting north of 17 to 1 now on gasoline. Move to methanol or ethanol and you're limited only by the capabilities of aluminum castings and forgings. I think there's a default "streetable" filter set in most people's minds. Once you turn that filter off then a lot of possibilities open up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.