The start to something awesome #2

[Pharaohabq]

So sad about the engine, but it must have been an amazing amount of pressure in there to do that kind of damage. Do you think it was Detonation? What gas were you running when the genie got out?

[2eighTZ4me]

The same amount of pressure that did this..... (sorry for the crappy pic) - that's an intercooler hose - a crappy E-Bay rubber one at that.

 

 

There is no doubt in my mind it was detonation. Ben and I seem to be exploring the limits of these motors "on a budget". Cost me less than $80 to rering and new rod bearings. Already had a set of dished pistons from a Z motor on the shelf. Ben wasn't so fortunate - and we pray to the Gods of Manifold Absolute Pressure that they spare us yet again, as we commit our daily sins......

[yetterben]

Yeah i saw that man. I spiked at 18psi. It was not a fuel issue. I have my timing locked in with a standard zx dizzy at 18 deg. I think it was just to much timing for the flat tops. Plus i had been having a oil burning issue on 5 and 6 all ready. I think some of my ring lands where cracked all ready. When it spiked all of them went i think. Hey the car still ran made boost and blew oil all over Plan is to clean up my block and drop the rotating mass from the turbo motor over to my block.

 

I always hate screwing with cranks though. Any special removal install things i need to be aware of?

Edited June 2, 2010 by yetterben

[2eighTZ4me]

So did mine. I could tell compression was down on one cyl. - and it smoked through the breather vents like a BBQ smoker loaded with meat, but it ran, made boost, and got from point A to B. Gotta give these motors some credit - they take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.. For someone to put a rod through the side of the block - that takes real ingenuity, or major stupidity (no oil).

 

On the crank removal, just get all the rod caps off and poke the pistons out through the top of the block. (head off of course). Pull the 5 of the 7 main caps that you can. Wiggle them back and forth and they'll eventually pull out. The middle and the rear main caps are the biggest beeatch. You gotta get an 8x1.25 bolt and thread it down into the threaded hole in the middle of the cap. Then you gotta get a slide hammer (thread the bolt through the slide hammer with a washer and into the main cap) and whack the hell out of them. The middle cap will come out fairly easily. The rear one will take some time and muscle.

 

I highly suggest you set your motor to TDC and mark the timing chain and gears (if you intend to reuse them) it will make reassembly soooooo much easier. Pull your timing chain out, and the crank should just lift out. Probably want to pull the front cover too so you have access to everything easily.

 

I'm about to be doing all of this on Saturday. If you need help - I can take pics and shoot them your way.

Edited June 2, 2010 by 2eighTZ4me

[yetterben]

Motor is out and on stand stripped to bare block. Awaiting funds for a flex hone. Or if someone on here has one......hint hint. Yes pics please. Paln was to either get new bearings for the crank or re use the ones from the donor block. I would use the crank in there but i think it might be fubar...that and i twacked a counter weight on accident when removing a piston. took a little tiny piece out of it. So i dunno if that will matter or not.

Edited June 2, 2010 by yetterben

[yetterben]

I am pleased to say i slid some used turbo pistons and rings in and its back on the street. I had a scare on the first run though my brake booster hose blew off and then it spiked to 20psi AGAIN. *sigh* blue cloud of smoke out the back i was fawking pissed. Pulled over all seemed good no smoke from vents. Drove home had the same 165psi on all 6 as i did before so that's good. I dont know why the hose flying of had anything to do with the boost spike.

 

So i decided to wrap my headers and down pipe while the car was out. I have never seen manifolds or a turbo glow red before tonight. It made my boost threshold about 800 rpms earlier. Thats good. What i dont like are the massive under hood temps now. Christ you can even stick your arm in the bay on the drivers side. I dunno if thats gonna last or not.

 

I need to learn to drive easy for the rest of the summer to make it last. Not gonna be easy seeing as how i drive for fun in the country back roads. I also drive like i am on a damn track gas on gas off brake heel toe gas/brake corner toe. vrooooom!

 

I attached a datalog looks good to me but welcome input from others.

newengine.rar

Edited June 14, 2010 by yetterben

[yetterben]

Been brought to my attention glowing could be timing issue. only running 15 total.........

[cygnusx1]

Lower compression than before and the same "retarded for safety" timing will cause the turbo to become an afterburner.  That's why it's so hot and colorful.  The timing curve you are running is only efficient at idle and under high boost.  Everywhere else, you are dumping raw fuel into the exhaust.  You REALLY need to be able to map the timing curve with either a turbo dizzy or something else.

[Tony D]

Someone else said that in the beginning as well...

Timing needs to move according to what is going on within the engine.

[Lazeum]

I would agree with the low timing, however having the turbo glowing red is not always a bad sign. I used to have an Evo 8, manifold and turbo were glowing red and it was not a problem.<BR><BR>An EGT probe/sensor could be a good investment to control the health of your engine. It could be a cheap insurance

Edited June 14, 2010 by Lazeum

[yetterben]

So i am am pretty much stuck then until i get a programmable solution?

[2eighTZ4me]

Yes - and welcome to the club......although, my TEC3 coil packs showed up last week. Need to find time to get them in and working with the MS.....

[yetterben]

well i have the complete ignition setup from the 81. Trying to find info to hook it up via ms, but not finding anything just 82-83.

 

*edit* Finding some stuff for 81 but not much. Still have not found wiring for the sensor.

Edited June 14, 2010 by yetterben

[2eighTZ4me]

81 had the crank angle sensor - the 82-83 had the trigger wheel inside the dizzy. I'd be willing to bet there's a way to do it though....

[yetterben]

Is there not a way to hook up the ignitor wires right to mega squirt? i would think there would be. Talking about the pickup wires red/green

[FlatBlack]

So i am am pretty much stuck then until i get a programmable solution?

 

Why not just buy a 82-83 CAS Dizzy and throw it in there? It's 6 bolts [4 on the oil pump, 2 on the dizzy housing], and should only take about 30 minutes or so to do. I think the going rate for a CAS dizzy and 'star' shaft is about $100. Pretty cheap.

 

Some wiring notes about the CAS dizzy are in my N/A-T 'notes' thread

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?/topic/82371-my-notes-on-the-na-l28-to-turbo-swap/

[yetterben]

Looking into using my dizzy in a vr setup. Finding the vr wiring in the mega manual is proving to be a pia.

[yetterben]

Looking at this option right now. Should work with my locked N/A dizzy. as i read this i would take the red wire run it into pin 24. Run the green to the ground wire. Run output wire 36 to negative side of coil. Is this right?

 

I am assuming i remove the module off the side of the dizzy or do i make these hookups off the module.?

 

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/Dizzy_Ignition/This_Next_5_setup.htm

 

then i would set my static timing to 10 btdc calibrated with the led system in ms. Set my setting in ms to 10 and double check with engine running. With that i should be off and running?

Edited June 14, 2010 by yetterben

[Six_Shooter]

It's been a while since I looked at how to use an MS to control a coil directly, so I won't give any fuzzy information on that.

 

However, another, and from what I read possibly more reliable way to use the '81 dizzy would be to use a GM Ignition Control Module (ICM), from a computer controlled GM car. The ICM could come from a lot of cars, from the mid '80s to late '90s. I used an ICM from a 2.8L V6 that was originally in an S-10 when I did my EFI swap initially, before swapping the DIS onto the engine.

 

Very simple hook up, the red and green wires from the dizzy connect to the ICM, on two .185" pins, I used a couple .185 terminals to do this. These pins would be inside the original dizzy, and connect to the reluctor. These pins are by themselves on one side of the module. The other side has two shrouded sets of pins, one shroud has a pair of pins, one being 12V ignition (pink when using the GM connector), the other being the trigger signal to the coil (white, again when using the GM connector). The other shroud has 4 pins, these connect to or near the ECM. The 4 pins, when using the GM connector has a Purple/White, which is the "REF HI", as GM calls it, this wire provides the RPM signal to the ECM, White, which is "REF LO", which is the EST signal, this tells the ICM how much timing for that spark event, a Tan/Black wire that will tell the ICM when to switch to using the ECM controlled timing. This is a 12V signal, that when used with the MS, needs a relay to switch on, to work correctly, and finaly a Black/Red wire, that is simply a ground. In GM applications, this Black/Red is connected to the ECM and is a reference, for the ECM. The GM ICM will also work without an ECM connected to it. This is used for starting and limp home modes in the GM applications, and why there is the Tan/Black wire to switch the ICM between base timing and ECM controlled timing.

 

I know there is information in the Mega Manual about connections and set-up. IIRC it's under the "GM HEI ignition" section.

[Mr. kazimi]

Sweet ride