MORE CALIFORNIA SMOG INFO

[kamikaZeS30]

You can make a motor swapped vehicle compliant if you retain all of the original smog equipment from the donor vehicle. So, for example, to be compliant with a 1972 v8 swap in a 1972 Z, you'd need the PCV, canister and AIR pump, and ensure that you have CARB compliant intake, heads, carb, headers, etc. Not that difficult. You can buy most of that stuff off-the-shelf at your local auto-parts store. You could also have it installed by a technician.

 

I don't see why this would be a big deal. You'd pay a fine, get the stuff fixed and then be on the road again.

[Xnke]

The big deal is that you are going to be harassed about it for the rest of the time you own the vehicle. It doesn't matter if you pass or not...if you live in CA, and you own a swapped or older car, and the older car is known to be modified, you ARE GOING TO GET HARASSED. Exempt or not.

 

One of the many reasons I won't live in CA. As much as I want to come out there for the MSA show, I am hesitant simply because of the smog laws.

 

The state looses a lot of tourism money due to this fear too...NONE of the local car crowd dares set one tire tread in CA because of it.

[johnc]

The big deal is that you are going to be harassed about it for the rest of the time you own the vehicle. It doesn't matter if you pass or not...if you live in CA, and you own a swapped or older car, and the older car is known to be modified, you ARE GOING TO GET HARASSED. Exempt or not.

 

One of the many reasons I won't live in CA. As much as I want to come out there for the MSA show, I am hesitant simply because of the smog laws.

 

The state looses a lot of tourism money due to this fear too...NONE of the local car crowd dares set one tire tread in CA because of it.

 

If you get your Hybrid car certified you won't get harassed. Like I said, I did a KA24DE swap into a 510 and we just went through the referee process. That car is just like any other 510, its exempt from the bi-annual smog inspection. I also worked on a customer's 1978 280Z that has a certified and stamped 327 SBC Chevy swap from before 1995. His car is perfectly legal and he gets a smog inspection every two years like the regulations require. Never had a problem.

 

And your car buddies fears are unwarranted. Out of state cars are exempt from any of our smog laws. Its funny that the folks outside of California are the ones that most fear our states smog laws. Ignorance breeds fear?

[rayaapp2]

You can make a motor swapped vehicle compliant if you retain all of the original smog equipment from the donor vehicle. So, for example, to be compliant with a 1972 v8 swap in a 1972 Z, you'd need the PCV, canister and AIR pump, and ensure that you have CARB compliant intake, heads, carb, headers, etc. Not that difficult. You can buy most of that stuff off-the-shelf at your local auto-parts store. You could also have it installed by a technician.

 

I don't see why this would be a big deal. You'd pay a fine, get the stuff fixed and then be on the road again.

 

Not quite,

 

You cannot use a truck motor in a car, or an older than your current chassis model year swap. You can put a car engine in a truck though.

 

You can make a motor swapped vehicle compliant if you retain all of the original smog equipment from the donor vehicle. So, for example, to be compliant with a 1972 v8 swap in a 1972 Z, you'd need All of the emissions related devices listed on the Emissions label under the hood(aka ECS label) of the donor vehicle or as that donor vehicle is listed in the ECS manual that almost all smog shops have. Ensure that you have California ARB compliant aftermarket parts or "O.E." replacement parts. Check out that link I posted on pg 2 for the "Smog Check Reference guide Appendix E I think it is. All about motor swaps.

 

In the past 10 or 11 years that I have owned my 260z I have only been 'harassed' once. It was 4 months after I bought the car and the muffler fell off the stock exhaust and I shook the CHP's car windows as I passed him down a 2 lane HWY. 6 months later the car was swapped and I have not been pulled over in that car once since then. I have had CHP, Sherrifs, and city Police all wave and give me thumbs up for my ugly little blue turd that has a huge GReddy fart can on the back is obviously lowered and at one point slammed, and has a bunch of gauges where the stereo should be. My car is exactly what they are looking for in modified cars on the street, but I guess the paint is so bad they dont give it a thought or something. Maybe I need a wing just to tempt fate.

 

Ill probably jinx myself by posting this.

Edited April 6, 2011 by rayaapp2

[thehelix112]

And your car buddies fears are unwarranted. Out of state cars are exempt from any of our smog laws. Its funny that the folks outside of California are the ones that most fear our states smog laws. Ignorance breeds fear?

 

Thats a lot nicer than what I was going to say. But what I will say is, don't move to Victoria, Australia if you think CA is bad.

 

Dave

[kamikaZeS30]

Not quite,

 

You cannot use a truck motor in a car, or an older than your current chassis model year swap. You can put a car engine in a truck though.

 

Notice how my example used the same model year (or newer). I'm not an idiot.

 

And, light-duty/passenger vehicles are interchangeable, "truck" engines are not swappable into passenger vehicles, then again, you'd have to look up what the definition of "truck" is. A lot of the smaller trucks, Ford Rangers, Toyotas, etc. for awhile had power-plants analogous to their passenger car offerings.

[BLOZ UP]

So, about collector insurance. In the post I linked to earlier, Tony D said he had Hagarty insurance. From what I read on their website, you can get collector/classic insurance, and still be able to drive it. I wonder if this would meet the requirements. I suppose I need to call up Hagarty to be sure.

Bar that, I suppose the best solution is to just keep my car registered in TX, and keep my TX driver's license.

[rayaapp2]

Notice how my example used the same model year (or newer). I'm not an idiot.

 

And, light-duty/passenger vehicles are interchangeable, "truck" engines are not swappable into passenger vehicles, then again, you'd have to look up what the definition of "truck" is. A lot of the smaller trucks, Ford Rangers, Toyotas, etc. for awhile had power-plants analogous to their passenger car offerings.

 

My wording was a little bad, I was not implying you were an 'idiot'. I should have said it was incomplete. Your example was/is very good.

 

It is my understanding that emissions standards for trucks and for the same model year passenger cars were different and that is the main idea behind not allowing the swaps(not sure about light trucks). I have never looked up the specifics behind that though. The swaps are 'promoted' as long as the passenger vehicle retains the same emissions standards or better(newer model years). Those light trucks ie Ford Rangers, Toyotas, etc. had the same power plant, but you can betin most cases they did not have the same internal specs as the passenger vehicle counterpart. Stuff like compression ratio and cam specs were different and I would think(just guessing without looking) that the emissions standards for those 'commercial' vehicles would be a little lighter than the passenger vehicles. Just a guess and I could be wrong.

[z2go]

So... we've established the rules for engine swapped vehicles, and smog for pre 76 vehicles... which all makes sense. However, what about a pre 76 with a custom built V8 that you can't pin to a particular model vehicle? The block that I have could be out of any number of vehicles... even after doing the research on block identification, etc.

[Gollum]

Just to further muddy the waters...

 

The Ref IS the law for the most part. If you get a citation sending you to him, it's HIM you have to satisfy, not just the CVC. The CVC is only in regards to inspection, not smog equipment, which is where the Ref will have you by the balls.

 

But here's the mud I was referring to earlier. When doing an engine swap, you don't have to transfer over smog equipment deemed "hazardous" on your vehicle. This only really pertains to CATs, and if your vehicle was never installed with a CAT your floorpan could potentially overheat and cause a fire if you installed a CAT. Because of this, you CAN get away without having a CAT on that particular vehicle when swapping the motor out. But you'll still have to comply with all the EGR, EVAP, PVC, etc of the original vehicle the motor is from.

 

At least that was the ruling when I was on a first name basis with the local ref back in '05-'06.

 

Another thing that you have to remember, is that the ref has a lot of materials on the subject that NEVER get published in any form besides made available to smog Refs. Each year their new standards book comes out and it's a good 4" wide book with bible pages that makes any shop manual look like toilet reading. Here's an example of what the ref has on file.

 

Story: my brother was trying to smog his new fox mustang from oregon. He had a local shop fail him because his check engine light wasn't coming on. Funny thing was we pulled the dash, and it doesn't have a light bulb installed. So we install a bulb.... no go. Doing some research it seems like this year mustang didn't have a check engine light. So we talk to the ref (since he knows us) to find out if he knew anything about the issue. So he goes and does some searching and finds out that this year was a transition year where they had the space for the light, but it wasn't actually effective yet... Go figure. Those little details they have information on, it's just an art pulling out that info.

 

 

One of my best friends is a smog tech, and a good one at that. My brother is currently studying to become a smog tech. I'm even considering becoming a smog tech as well since our buddy has so much business he can't handle. Tony D's statements are all perfectly inline with our collective knowledge on smog. I've never seen him spew false info on the subject, and would almost consider it gospel. I don't assume he knows everything, but he has quite the handle on the system and how it all works. And to validate some of my experience, I've owned a couple cars with swapped engines, and I've hand first hand history (real history, not just touching from time to time) with quite a few cars with motor swaps. Here in norcal it's an extreme rarity to see a pre 76 sent to the smog ref, but not impossible. I think I feel another story coming on.

 

Story: So that previously mentioned smog tech friend of mine was out cruising with some friends (who he happened to go to the track with on a regular basis at the time). His car was a CRX with a B16. Among the other cars is a 65 mustang with a blown 351W small block, well worked comaro, and a 1000+hp nitrous nova. Cop decides to pull ALL 4 of them over. Pops all the hoods. No ticket for the comaro and nova. Mustang got a ticket for bald tires (was running 4 slicks). My friend in his puny little crx got a plethora of tickets and had to sit there and explain how all of his parts were actually legal (some of which were not but he knew how to satisfy a cop's questions). They nickled and dimed him for every little thing from front plates not being on, to bald tires (which actually HAD tread unlike the slicks on the mustang).

[johnc]

The Ref IS the law for the most part. If you get a citation sending you to him, it's HIM you have to satisfy, not just the CVC. The CVC is only in regards to inspection, not smog equipment, which is where the Ref will have you by the balls.

 

Well, technically no. The court is the law and the ref just makes a determination about the smog certification. You could scrap the car, get the scrap certification from the junkyard, go to court and pay the fine, and never go to the ref. I know of at least one car where that was done and the complete drivetrain, suspension, and interior ended up in another vehicle a month later.

[kamikaZeS30]

edited: this is why I don't post in the mornings.

Edited April 7, 2011 by kamikaZeS30

[Gollum]

Well, technically no. The court is the law and the ref just makes a determination about the smog certification. You could scrap the car, get the scrap certification from the junkyard, go to court and pay the fine, and never go to the ref. I know of at least one car where that was done and the complete drivetrain, suspension, and interior ended up in another vehicle a month later.

 

Good point.

 

I guess to better my statement, is that the only way you'll be getting past the law, is through the Ref. They're the ones in the doorway to keeping your car and keeping it on the road, legally.

[Tony D]

Nice try at a swipe, but when John C has already posted the relevant parts of the CVC already known to me to be truthful, and relevant, what am I to do but point out personal circumstances that show your folly?

 

I'm not calling the ref from Bangkok---thanks to JC for that!

 

But the point was the individuals in my example once thought like you did "hey, I'm exempt" and were dragged kicking and screaming to my side of the 'understanding equation'. Luckily they had the means to comply---it wasn't difficult, but it was tedious. They skated on the call-in not through some magical 'exemption' but through a proper conversion. Had ANY ONE of their other vehicles not passed... And had they owned bone stock vehicles in poor tune they would still be required to comply---pass of don't and loose the registration through the mechanisims extant in the CVC.

 

Unless you got the same e-plate that the cop pulling you over for the inspection has, you aren't exempt. Look to the section of the CVC which handles EXEMPTIONS and it's there in black and white. Cop cars, municipal vehicles...no private vehicles mentioned I saw----so until you figure out how to legally get an E-Plate to your car, you aren't exempt from COMPLIANCE (which is what EXEMPT MEANS---it's in the CVC, the following vehicles are EXEMPTED FROM COMPLIANCE)

 

And that's the legal nuance I was talking about. While it does (in the sections mentioned above) explicitly say you are exempt from biennial smog checks, in the section where it SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSES EXEMPTION FROM COMPLIANCE these vehicles ARE NOT included. That is what I'm here to do, not put up copious clips of CVC Jargon, but to explain there IS a section that SPECIFICALLY SHOWS WHICH VEHICLES ARE EXEMPT. The pre-1975's are NOT included in this list.

 

You seem to read the CVC a lot, read it a bit more and you should pick this point up, perhaps go talk to a legislator or lawyer to have them explain about two lists each specific in what they provide for and exempt. Testing is NOT compliance. They are two different things, and while the law exempts you from one, they neglected to put that group in the other---meaning you are NOT exempted from compliance.

 

Simple as getting state legislators to add the pre-75's to that list... but it's not happening as they don't want non-compliant vehicles out there---they just don't want to TEST EVERYONE when it's diminishing returns. This is why the compliance exemption was NOT included. If you pipe dirty, you get called in and they can take the vehicle off the road.

 

It's what the SMOG check program was meant to do: remove polluters from everyday driving population.

[Tony D]

Well, technically no. The court is the law and the ref just makes a determination about the smog certification. You could scrap the car, get the scrap certification from the junkyard, go to court and pay the fine, and never go to the ref. I know of at least one car where that was done and the complete drivetrain, suspension, and interior ended up in another vehicle a month later.

 

John...muahaha... you learn well, 'I know of at least one'

 

With phraseology like that, the world is grand! I know of a few as well.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Tony D

[rayaapp2]

Nice try at a swipe, but when John C has already posted the relevant parts of the CVC already known to me to be truthful, and relevant, what am I to do but point out personal circumstances that show your folly?

 

I'm not calling the ref from Bangkok---thanks to JC for that!

 

But the point was the individuals in my example once thought like you did "hey, I'm exempt" and were dragged kicking and screaming to my side of the 'understanding equation'. Luckily they had the means to comply---it wasn't difficult, but it was tedious. They skated on the call-in not through some magical 'exemption' but through a proper conversion. Had ANY ONE of their other vehicles not passed... And had they owned bone stock vehicles in poor tune they would still be required to comply---pass of don't and loose the registration through the mechanisims extant in the CVC.

 

Unless you got the same e-plate that the cop pulling you over for the inspection has, you aren't exempt. Look to the section of the CVC which handles EXEMPTIONS and it's there in black and white. Cop cars, municipal vehicles...no private vehicles mentioned I saw----so until you figure out how to legally get an E-Plate to your car, you aren't exempt from COMPLIANCE (which is what EXEMPT MEANS---it's in the CVC, the following vehicles are EXEMPTED FROM COMPLIANCE)

 

And that's the legal nuance I was talking about. While it does (in the sections mentioned above) explicitly say you are exempt from biennial smog checks, in the section where it SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSES EXEMPTION FROM COMPLIANCE these vehicles ARE NOT included. That is what I'm here to do, not put up copious clips of CVC Jargon, but to explain there IS a section that SPECIFICALLY SHOWS WHICH VEHICLES ARE EXEMPT. The pre-1975's are NOT included in this list.

 

You seem to read the CVC a lot, read it a bit more and you should pick this point up, perhaps go talk to a legislator or lawyer to have them explain about two lists each specific in what they provide for and exempt. Testing is NOT compliance. They are two different things, and while the law exempts you from one, they neglected to put that group in the other---meaning you are NOT exempted from compliance.

 

Simple as getting state legislators to add the pre-75's to that list... but it's not happening as they don't want non-compliant vehicles out there---they just don't want to TEST EVERYONE when it's diminishing returns. This is why the compliance exemption was NOT included. If you pipe dirty, you get called in and they can take the vehicle off the road.

 

It's what the SMOG check program was meant to do: remove polluters from everyday driving population.

 

Did you know that the state "ca exempt" plated vehicles are STILL REQUIRED to attend biannually the enhanced smog program. I have actually never done one, but there are some special instructions for them that you have to know in order to be able to answer questions on you smog license test and to do them if you ever do end up with one. The exact information is hidden in that "Smog Check Reference Guide", which can be found on ARBs website that I listed on PG 2. Its location is Pg 1-35

under Section I, 1.11.3, Fleet Vehicles, Government Fleet. And they may or may not require the Certification of Compliance or Non-Compliance.

 

There is another "catch" for legislators and for ARB's members when it comes to adding those pre-76 vehicles back into the program. CAP, that is the Consumer Assistance Program. The state knows that they would end up having to pay to keep those cars on the road as well as pay to take them off. Just like Tony Says, "they just don't want to TEST EVERYONE when it's diminishing returns".

[Tony D]

"Did you know that the state "ca exempt" plated vehicles are STILL REQUIRED to attend biannually the enhanced smog program."

 

PM me with those details, Ray. The CVC clearly exempts them from compliance in a specific section---but then again, if you are exempt from COMPLIANCE what exactly is there to TEST FOR.

 

And therein lies the rub---a car exempt from TESTING is not exempt from COMPLIANCE.

And now Ray apparently is throwing in that those EXEMPT vehicles are still required to TEST---but if you are COMPLIANCE-EXEMPT what EXACTLY do they test for? What visual could be done?

 

[rayaapp2]

"Did you know that the state "ca exempt" plated vehicles are STILL REQUIRED to attend biannually the enhanced smog program."

 

PM me with those details, Ray. The CVC clearly exempts them from compliance in a specific section---but then again, if you are exempt from COMPLIANCE what exactly is there to TEST FOR.

 

And therein lies the rub---a car exempt from TESTING is not exempt from COMPLIANCE.

And now Ray apparently is throwing in that those EXEMPT vehicles are still required to TEST---but if you are COMPLIANCE-EXEMPT what EXACTLY do they test for? What visual could be done?

 

 

Ill PM it to you

Like I said they may or may not ask for a certificate of compliance/non-compliance. My bad it looks like they may have nailed them as annual reporters not biannual."Government Fleet: Smog Check inspection requirements apply to government fleet

vehicles. To help verify compliance, government fleets are required to submit an annual

inspection report (Annual Reporting Transmittal - Form 79-21) to the BAR Fleet Operations

Unit."

Edited April 8, 2011 by rayaapp2

[ctc]

Not to muddy the waters too much on such a good thread, but this discussion also applies to 1975 and older cars imported into California from overseas. Ask me, I know from personal experiance. The DMV will not flag the car for smog inspection if it is 1975 or older. So you can register your 1972 Hakosuka, but if the CHP flag it for emissions compliance, or someone rats you out, you will have to take the car to the REF to get the registration and ticket cleared. Once the REF sees the triple carbs and non-US engine block, you are sunk. Only way out is to swap in a US engine and emissions equipment and have the car get a BAR engine swap sticker.

 

This is what I am going through right now. I second the request to see if any of the RB swapped Z's have ever been stopped for emissions?

[rayaapp2]

Not to muddy the waters too much on such a good thread, but this discussion also applies to 1975 and older cars imported into California from overseas. Ask me, I know from personal experiance. The DMV will not flag the car for smog inspection if it is 1975 or older. So you can register your 1972 Hakosuka, but if the CHP flag it for emissions compliance, or someone rats you out, you will have to take the car to the REF to get the registration and ticket cleared. Once the REF sees the triple carbs and non-US engine block, you are sunk. Only way out is to swap in a US engine and emissions equipment and have the car get a BAR engine swap sticker.

 

This is what I am going through right now. I second the request to see if any of the RB swapped Z's have ever been stopped for emissions?

 

Damn sorry to hear that. That is how the law is written though. Most of the time things like this dont happen here in Cali. It all comes down to the individuals that enforce these laws and YOU the driver/owner. Cross your fingers/kiss they arse and hope they dont view you as the 'A-hole' on the road and find THAT reason to toss you into the system. OR drive right and show no obvious signs of modification to your car. I have a LARGE 3" ID GReddy muffler with like a 4" chromed exhaust tip on it. That tip stays as black and nasty as I can possibly get it... The rest of the car still gets a car wash though.

 

Whats really sad is that the RB25DET with no CAT is cleaner than the L-gata(esp @ idle). So a swapped RB into a certain old Z is actually achieving better tail pipe emissions than the original option L. My last emissions run with the RB25det showed high HC's, but I already know about the leaky 100K mile valve stem seals that are in that motor.

 

Most of the CHP around here give me the thumbs up when they see me drive by. Since I discovered that the cars speedo has given up the ghost Im always thinking Im speeding when Im actually not. It gets tricky though, the speedo is only 5mph at the bottom and by 70 mph the speedo reads something like 95mph. GPS backup has been nice in the past few months since this discovery.

 

As far as the old skyline which model do you have? Hopefully not a real GTR. Did they go after the safety criteria as well or just the engine?