Overlooked 5-lug option?

[Dan_Austin]

I've read every major and likely most of of the minor threads here

concerning 5-lug swaps and brake upgrades. There are a handful

from a few years back exploring alternate hubs, and they seemed

to close out without success or a lot of effort.

 

I found a single post that mentioned a car with Conquest/Starion

hubs. The owner had purchased it that way and had no further

info.

 

An online parts store that has the decency to post full specs

of their parts helped confirm that the 87-89 Conquest/Starion

use the same inner and outer wheel bearings as our beloved Z.

 

Interest peaked, I found that a near by Pick-N-Pull had-

1. A 87 Starion on the lot (less than 2 weeks)

2. A 73 240Z

3. Several Toyota pickup/4Runners

All within a couple rows.

 

The Starion had no front wheels, so the hubs were easy pickings.

The 240z also had one wheel removed and the hub was on the ground

in no time. The Starion hub fits quite nice, so off to the Toyotas

I went to grab a couple calipers.

 

The Starion rotor is also 278MM, but with a 26mm friction surface

and a hat height of 66mm. A S13W caliper is 1~3mm too far outboard

if it is mounted to the outside of the strut lugs. A S12W does

not fit over the Starion rotor.

 

Like a twit, I forgot to bring any form of measuing device, so I grabbed

the hubs and the S13W calipers and went for the door. (I know the S13W

are not ideal, but it gave me a starting point)

 

Brembo has an oline Flash catalogue for rotors, and it can be searched

by dimension. I found a small number of rotors that would work with

no machining on the rotor and either no machining on the caliper, or

only minor tweaks for clearance.

 

I suspect there must be a gotchya somewhere in here, or this swap

would be in more than one post among the tens of thousands on the

board.

 

Since this is for my daily driver, I won't be moving much further

along until I can get my hands on a spare strut to mock up the

final assembly.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Dan_Austin

[EJB103]

Dan - What is the measurement of the bolt spacing on the Conquest hub?

[Dan_Austin]

I should have added that and the other features I think make it an attractive

hub swap-

 

Lub pattern: 5X114.3 (5X4.5")

Approx 18~19mm additional outboard offset

Slip-on/floating rotor

[gvincent]

This could be real interesting, I'll be following this thread with great interest!

Thanks,

Greg

[sq_creations]

could you take some pictures as you put it together?

[Dan_Austin]

could you take some pictures as you put it together?

 

That is my plan. I believe the rotor I will end up using is

from an 86 Lincoln Mark VII. It has a ~95mm total hat height.

If my math and measurements are correct it will be centered

in the S13W calipers when they are mounted in the stock location.

Which means zero machining other than triming or removing the

dust sheild.

 

Next up is to buy the rotors, pads and source some decent 5 lug wheels.

I also plan to put an 81 ZX master cylinder on at the same time.

[ezzzzzzz]

That is my plan. I believe the rotor I will end up using is

from an 86 Lincoln Mark VII. It has a ~95mm total hat height.

If my math and measurements are correct it will be centered

in the S13W calipers when they are mounted in the stock location.

Which means zero machining other than triming or removing the

dust sheild.

 

Next up is to buy the rotors, pads and source some decent 5 lug wheels.

I also plan to put an 81 ZX master cylinder on at the same time.

 

Do you know the offset of this hub? I'm assuming it is a 5 x 4.5 bolt pattern?

[stprasinz]

just a thought, use 87+ factory 300zx turbo rotors, and 18-19mm(whatever the outboard difference is) spacers, and the apprpriate longer bolts..... sounds like it might work, but that would be a bit of stresser on the bolts being spaced that far....

[Dan_Austin]

I am still looking for a trashed strut to use for mock-up

and measurements.

 

In the mean time I has spent close to 10 hours using

a Brembo flash catalog to review rotors in .1mm hat

height increments, and then looking up the any potential

donor vehicles on r1concepts. The Brembo app is handy,

but cannot search by ranges, and care must be taken to

use the app back button and not the browser back button.

 

That method eventually eliminated the 86 Lincoln rotor,

since is has a built in hub (never seen one of those).

A 1995 Crown Vic rotor might work IF the S12W install

has close to 5mm of gap between the caliper and rotor

edge (doubt it)(hub/lug centric spacers may be required).

 

A 1994 Mazda MPV rotor has close to ideal hub and lug

hole sizes, is nice and wide, close to perfect hat height

but only 10.85" (also readily available and cheap)

 

I have a set of S13WB that I grab for reference and may

use them. I would prefer to find a mythical set of S13W

which internet rumor lists as using the same 43.5 pistons

as the the S12W, but has 9mm taller lugs, which would

make the Crown Vic rotor work and might be enough to

stretch to a 2002 Ford Ranger 12" (hub/lug centric spacers

may be required)

 

Keep in mind my goal(s) are-

Easy access to replacement rotors/pads (otherwise Wilwood

calipers and two piece rotors would be the solution)

Easier maintenance. No pulling hubs to replace rotors.

Better braking than what I have.

Minimal to no machine work. Custom brackets to cope with

rotor offset is not going to happen with what I have for

tools. Hub or lug spacers may be doable.

 

 

The Starion hubs appear to have been used by another hybrid'r

and met most of my design goals. Sadly the member does not

appear to have been here in months, so the easy answer is not

happening either...

[awoz87]

progress??

[Dan_Austin]

Not really. I'm still looking for a trashed strut to take

measurements and mock up possible combinations.

 

I did to a another protracted round ouf reviewing factory

rotors and I am disappointed with the options available

for a rotor with a 95 mm hat height. If the next round

of measurements confirm 95ish mm hat, then it might mean

a 2 piece hat/rotor.

 

Another option that may be possible is that while looking

at Wilwood rotors, I noted that they also make a range of

billet hubs using the same bearings as the Z, in a variety

of bearing depths, drilled for both 4.5 and 4.75 five bolt

patterns and setup. MSRP also has a pair at well under

$300.

 

I need to get off my duff and go find a strut to use for

testing.

[PurePontiacKid]

I know you're lookin into the Ford/Mitsu stuff, but a friend of mine uses first-gen Camaro hubs on all of his cars... although I realize that GM uses the 5x4.75" bolt pattern which is different from Ford/Nissan 5 lugs... just something I thought I'd throw out there.

[Dan_Austin]

There was another member here that used the

Conquest/Starion hubs, but they've gone silent.

 

The Camaro swap does not do into great detail

either (what rotor, caliper, brackets, etc).

The wilwood Camaro hub is drilled in both

5x4.5 and 5x4.75, and looks like a great option,

if measurements can be taken to identify possible

caliper and rotor pairings.

 

There is a trashed set of spindles available on

eBay that I may just have to buy to get this party

rolling...

[Bare Speed]

doesnt Modern Motor Sports make this hub you are looking for? I was looking to do the samething.

[Dan_Austin]

Modern Motor Sports does have various collection of hubs in

billet aluminum. With either no additional offset or 19mm

additional offset. I suppose that the extra $200+ over the

Wilwood hubs would justified by having someone tell you exactly

what brake components can just be bolted on.

 

The Starion hub is steel and not aluminum, so durability should

not be a concern.

 

A lot of this comes down to a mental experiment. This is my

daily driver, so I cannot have it torn apart for testing.

 

A post on these forums got me looking at the Starion hubs for

the advantaged of-

5 lub steel hub

Salvage yard available

Reasonable additional offset

Minimal machining for caliper mounting (hopefully)

 

Searching this forum and other Z related forums has uncovered

no specifics, so I guess I need to pickup the spindles on eBay

and just get to the business of taking the measurements.

[reintr0ducing]

doesnt Modern Motor Sports make this hub you are looking for? I was looking to do the samething.

 

another problem with modern motorsports parts is that it seems like ross doesn't want to take my money and sell me stuff.

[Bare Speed]

did the Conquest hubs work for you? I have had no luck getting a hold of Modern Motor spots at all. I need to find a hub that will work or use some custom made adapters. I found a company in So cal that can make them. they would be 35mm (1.4in) adapters. If using flares then there would no be too much of an issue. I would rather find another hub to replace with.

[SHADY280]

If you are looking at crown vic rotors, there are 2 different ones depending on year. The newer cars have a different offset. Also, you may be able to use the rear rotors, they are vented as well and pretty big. I used to do police maintance and always looked at the setup as viable if a hub was found. you can also get cross drilled rotors for race aplication, or heavy street. The crown vic calipers are dual piston and have a great large pad, just need mounts. They seem to be close to the right spacing for mounting as well. I like the floating rotor as well, quick to change and no messing with the bearing. My question, whats your rear hub solution to match?

[Dan_Austin]

I have a set of chopped up front struts on their way,

so I should be able to start the mock-up process.

 

I have not decided on the rear yet. I see three

options, each with its own set of drawbacks...

 

1. Redrill the stock and use a spacer to match up

with the new front offset. I do not like the idea

of using a spacer.

2. Try to adapt Z31 stub axles using info found in

old posts by zcarnut. Finding someone to attempt to

do the required machining of the strut housings is

likely to be a challenge.

3. Custom stub axles. Just to expensive.

[NZeder]

I have not decided on the rear yet. I see three

options, each with its own set of drawbacks...

The other option is the new rear leg setup that TTT (TechnoToyTuning) sells that allows the install of the Z32 type rear hubs = much stronger alxe setup too. But that does get up there on the cost too but you do have a CV conversion and rear disk conversion at the same time (install the whole Z32 rear back setup including internal handbrake drum)