How to waste your time and money.

[cannonball55]

Build a 240z with a LS3 in it is a good way to toss your money away. I have had several people ask me why my car I have forsale is so expensive. I figured I'd set down and do the math and see where I went wrong. To end up with a car that cost so much to build and is flat worthless when it comes to selling it. I started with a $5,000 clean pretty much rust free 1973 240Z. After that the parts list begins....

Car $5000

Crate engine LS3 with "Hot cam" rated 480 HP $6500

Wiring harness for LS3 $1000

T56 6 speed (rebuilt to handle 650 ft. lbs tq.) $3000

R200 rearend nissan clutch style lsd $1000

LS series mount set from John's cars $295

Headers from John's cars $330

AC compressor and mounts from John's cars $450

Driveshaft from John's cars $235

Trans crossmember and mount from John's cars $135

Griffin Aluminum radiator $350

Electric pusher fan 10" $80

Electric puller fan 12" $95

Radiator catch can $40

Altenator for ls3 $175

LS3 Belt tensioner $50

Starter for LS3 $100

Fidanza aluminium flywheel $350

Spec Clutch for LS3 $450

Wilwood Master cylinder $100

Billet Z31 CV/Companion Flange Adaptors from Modern motorsports $395

Billet 4340 280Z Stub Axles 4 lug pattern from modern motorsports $695

Bearing kit for stub axles from modern motorsports $100

Rota RB wheels $750

Yokohama tires $850

Mount and balance tires $50

Fuel cell from summit $160

Threaded fuel cell filler cap assembly $45

High pressure fuel pump $300

AN fittings for fuel system $180

AN braided line for fuel system $75

High pressure aeromotive fuel filter with replaceable element $150

A1000 Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator $140

Autometer in dash Phantom tach $155

Autometer phantom 160 mph electric programmable speedometer $225

Autometer phantom fuel gauge $50

Autometer phantom water temp gauge $80

Autometer phantom oil pressure gauge $70

Welding leads to relocate battery to rear of car $100

New Battery $75

Extra wide custom ZG flares with mounting kits $250

K&N cold air air filter 4" inlet $50

Heavy duty headlight harness from black dragon $30

6 Clutches to rebuild LSD unit and remove spacers $100

 

 

Total $24810

Taxes? $1500?

 

This is not counting all the other odds and ends I did like rewiring the entire car, radiator hoses, sanding discs bought, undercoat purchased, antifreeze, mobil1 oil and filter, stainless steel bolts on engine and accesories, all of the exhaust system I seam to have forgotten but was 500-600 bucks. Plus factor in the 250ish hours involved in the build to throw salt in the wound lol. Just a heads up to the guys that think building one of these cars with good top of the line parts is cheap. Plan your car and what you think its gonna cost you and then double it. The good news....I finally think I have my car sold. A guy is coming next week to check it out from out of state. If he likes it he will hand me $17,000 and drive off with my $28,000 car. Lesson Learned.

 

Thanks,

Stewart

[sticky280zx]

Shouldve stuck with the nice rust free 240 for 5k...prolly wouldve made some money or atleast come out even on that. I think the "lesson learned" would be not to jus throw money at a (for lack of better terms) undesirable sports car from the 70s. Much less just to turn around and sell it right after you get it "finished", still looks like it needs some finishing/cleaning up to most. Also theres a reason why everyone gets "used" low mile ls1-2-3's...to save about 1/2 or better over just buying it.

 

 

Lesson learned would be to do some research on buying/restoring/selling cars, even if youre doing it as a hobby otherwise you can BET on losing your ass every time. These cars arent high on the resale list, hence me saying "undesirable"...if you would have dont all of the above to an old 69 camaro, you might have come out ahead...not to mention you couldve bought a shell or roller for 2-5k and had a completely custom old "HOT ROD" that EVVVERRYYYYONE wants.

 

 

Still havent heard your reasoning for selling even though its been asked many times before....

[FlatBlack]

Why did you build a car with everything you wanted to just turn around and sell it?

 

I feel for you because I know it sucks to put a bunch of time and money into the car and then have people try to lowball on you.

 

However, I think if you were just trying to flip it you should have just done the swap sans crate engine, rebuilt T56, Nismo R200, etc etc.

[cannonball55]

Car is being sold to keep from losing my home. Only reason I'm selling it is to get the cash to try to refinance it and somehow try to keep my head above water. When life gives you lemons sometimes selling your Z is better than making lemonade.

 

Thanks,

Stewart

[ModernS30]

Car is being sold to keep from losing my home. Only reason I'm selling it is to get the cash to try to refinance it and somehow try to keep my head above water. When life gives you lemons sometimes selling your Z is better than making lemonade.

 

Thanks,

Stewart

 

That sucks but sometimes that is how it goes.

 

Good luck.

[LamboZ]

your 1st mistake was to keep track of the money spent.

[sticky280zx]

well...dropping 30k or so in a car over the last "year-year 1/2" might be why youre having to sell it to refi your mortgage....probably couldve built a nice ls1/2 and even sprayed it and had only 15k in the car and another 15k to pay your bills with, then again a sprayed ls1/2 car could prolly sell for 15k....just something to think about, then again i will stand by my original statement of RESEARCH the car you are planning on dumping 15-30k into and if you had an early mustang, camaro, etc you probably wouldnt be taking much of a loss at all,if not make money off of it.

 

Dont blame the car for your mistakes....that Z doesnt deserve it, another 3-5k cleaning that car up,and creature comforts and it would make someone verryyyy happy and probably get ALOT more attention than it does now.

[Tony D]

Take what you spend, divide by 2, there's the starting price. If you get it, consider yourself lucky that someone has the same taste as you.

 

"A car is a hole in midair supported by rubber doughnuts on the four corners, into which you throw vast ammounts of money, none of which will ever be seen again. You can not eat the doughnuts, either."

[randy 77zt]

a hobby is not an investment.it is something you rationalize that you are correct about while giving yourself pleasant thoughts of an adrenaline rush of speed.its an addiction you will never be fully cured of.i have owned a few very fast hobbies.my favorite 1 was a boat that would basically fly-or kill you if you got too happy with the trim lever on the motor at 100+ mph.boat=bring out another thousand.good luck on keeping your house.here in central california everyone is short selling thiers-you can buy a bigger house for less money then you owe on the 1 you are in for less $ per month.

[Tony D]

Short selling results in tax liability for the difference. Thank's fer that Bill!

 

Taking my advice about the hole in the air makes life a lot easier: spend the money like you will NEVER see it again, and you will live a happy life. If you don't have the money to spend, then you don't miss it.

 

I got it to spend, but I couldn't fathom throwing $30K into a hole in the ground in a year on a car, horse, boat, or beer and whores for that matter.

 

Couple hundred a month maybe. An average of $2000+ a month? If I did that my second house in Michigan would be PAID OFF in that same timeframe.

 

Till one of them is paid off, I don't see a car as a priority in Maslow's Hierarchy rating above shelter...

 

Seriously, you paid as much for your car as I paid on two mortgages over that same timeframe. And one of those was a consistent Double-Payment!

Edited September 19, 2010 by Tony D

[dsommer]

Hey Stewart, it was good to meet you in Branson this year at Z fest. If the sale falls through consider parting the car out. You've got some good parts in there and I know an outlet where you could move the LS engine and transmission quickly and at a decent price. Probably the guages too.

 

The remainder would sell here on Hybrid or ebay. Keep the shell, drop a SBC in it later with a JTR kit. This approach would generate you some funds in a short time frame vs the attempts to sell the whole package.

 

Oh and by the way...I've got around 4 years wrapped up in building my gnose car and I'm still no where closer to done than I was back in May.

 

David

Rogers, AR

Edited September 19, 2010 by dsommer

[Bahraini240z]

Sorry for ur loss man. Hope u recover from this financial situation and start a better build

 

I'm just curious how ur ride turned out. Pix maybe

[cygnusx1]

I thought about building a couple of kit Cobras per year to make some cash.  Then I did a little bit of research and saw that even nicely finished ones are selling in the 25K to 35K range.  At that price I would need to eat pine cones for supper all year long.  Cars are generally bad investments and thanks for having the balls to lay it all out in front of us.  Lot's of people can't or won't or admit the bath they took.  Good luck with the home.

[BLOZ UP]

It sounds like you have no one to blame but yourself. 99.9% of cars are not investments. Even if you took a hot rod and dumped $30k in to it, those are rarely ever sold at profit.

 

So, yeah, it's not the cars fault. It can't take money from your wallet and upgrade itself.

[cannonball55]

Hey hey Dsommer, yeah was good meeting ya at Branson Zfest. Still got that Hat ya gave me thx again. If this guy bails on purchasing her I'll definatly get in contact with ya on the ls3/t56 combo idea. I still have the stock engine trans I could stick back into her. Did the scarab find a new home yet? I seen it forsale awhile back.

- Thx,Stewart

 

 

 

Got a few people explaining to me that I shouldn't have spent that much and I wouldn't be having an issue with finances, and how its not the cars fault its not worth more. All pretty obvious stuff. Easy to spend a bit when you have a good solid job making good cash. Sucks when economy takes a dump and takes your job with it. I just wanted people to see and understand that Z cars are not something to invest any serious money into as you will never get it out. Its a slippery slope and easy to find yourself sliding down it. Live and learn but it doesn't hurt to try to keep your fellow man from making the same mistake. Well got to run just found out that I'm out of beer and have to run to the store.

 

Oh almost forgot someone asked for pics. Heres link to photobucket pics and a short video at the track.

 

http://s445.photobucket.com/albums/qq176/55cannonball55/240Z%20Forsale/

 

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz82/koukimonster07/Z%20Fest%20June%202010/?action=view&current=DSCN0575.mp4

[Tony D]

It's not Z-Cars, dude, IT'S ANY CAR! That is what the people were trying to tell you. If you did that to a VW Split Window Bus, you would have a car worth $20K after spending 2X that on the Porsche upgrades. But restore it to immaculate stock and it's worth closer to $40K. Custom automobiles are rarely, if EVER worth the money put into them.

 

Not invested, thrown into them and expected never to be seen again. Anybody building a custom car for THEMSELVES and then expecting someone ELSE to have the same vision as they do as to what is perfect is being foolishly delusional. Building one for someone else on THEIR dime is the way to make money (er... and that's iffy...) on the job. John C has discussed the economics of running a custom fab shop in the past. Making money in this line of work isn't easy as many neyophites think it is.

 

Best to call it a hobby and kiss the money away, using only disposable income. Otherwise the sage advice:

 

"I would need to eat pine cones for supper all year long. "

 

Is eminently applicable. If you don't like Pine Nuts, consider taking a moderation approach to a project instead of selling the farm to pursue the illusion of being able to have it all. Life's great for the grasshopper until he comes knocking at the door of the ant mound when winter comes, and the ants frendily invite him in to share dinner. Which he soon learns is HIM!

 

(The little allegory I taught my kid growing up...)

 

Somewhere, and Ant is eating your car while you reconsider the priorities that you set to reach this point. Please consider this advice going forward. It's a car, it's not food or shelter. You don't have a house if you have a mortgage, you have a cash drain. Once it's paid off, your income becomes truly disposable. And it happens quicker than you think if you concnetrate on it!

 

Good Luck.

[aplyedmind]

Some one buy the z and help the man out. Just part it out Maybe you will get more of it back that way.

[auxilary]

step 1: start building a rotary Z

step 2: cancel doing step 1 after buying 98% of the parts

step 3: sell off rotary parts, making at most 40% back on what was spent, not counting custom work.

step 4: start doing LS1 converstion

step 5: ....

step 6: profit?

Edited September 21, 2010 by auxilary

[LowCarbZ]

Hmmm... So you mean to say if I choose to modify a vehicle i'll never see a penny of it back? /sarcasm

 

I think you are doing pretty good if you get the 17k for it. Considering most people won't place value on mods unless it's EXACTLY how they'd want it, hard to come by.

 

And to put that money in perspective I spent the value of your car drinking and carrying on from the age of 19 to 23. If you keep track of anything it's expensive:

 

Say you spend $100 a week on beer, drinking, eating at pubs etc. (**** you really don't NEED).

 

Multiply that by 52 weeks: $5200

 

Multiply that by five years: $26000

 

Twenty-six thousand dollars went through the average young man in wasted booze and food. And that's using conservative numbers. And what do you have to show for it? Maybe a couple misdemeanors and some foggy memories, possibly herpes.

 

So suddenly that LS swapped classic Z that puts a smile on your face doesn't sound so bad does it?

[Tony D]

A guy we called "Oagre" came up to me in the dorm one day, and says "D, you want some yen?"

 

My question, being it was like a huge industrial mayonaise jar he was holding was 'How much?'

 

"67,000"

 

Uh, dude, you realize that's like $700 right?

 

He stood there visibly shaken and all the color drained from his face. He wasn't particularly generous, so I figured he had no clue how much it was he was freely offering. So seeing his state, I asked: "Oagre, what's wrong man?"

 

Really, REALLY quietly... almost in a whisper the enormity of what he had hit him and he said almost choking down vomitus: "This is my drinking change. I just threw what I had left in the jar. "If this is what I had left over...how much did I spend?"

 

He staggered back to his room, visibly shaken by this development. It happens to everyone sooner or later. The key is to keep your eyes open going in, and set limits. Most people won't do that. It's the grasshopper syndrome.