What Tail lights Would Work on a 240Z ?

[Wagz]

Personally, I like the Supra Lights a bit better than the 300ZX lights. Both are good lookin' on the Z.

 

However, I'm building a Velo Rossa so, neither of those looks will work for me. I need more of a classic look. I'm not crazy about the Mazda RX3 lights and various other basic round lights I've seen. Gotta find something cool, yet classic to match those classic body lines.

 

I toyed with the idea of a modern interpretation of the 250GTO and thats were I got the idea for the Supra lights. I've since changed my mind on a modern update.

[Boobala]

Hey they stole my idea! (see page 1)

 

Yep, it's a Miata.

[Sleek Z]

 

**Modem users please pardon the inclusion of 3 semi large images in this post. I felt they made the points needed to go with the text. Hopefully the length of page 3 of this tread will now cause page 4 to be started so that load times for page 3 will not be drastic.**

 

First off I'd like to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread that I started 5 days ago. It's over 60 responses so far. Must be this topic is on a lot of person's minds? Great examples and thoughts so far. Thanks much.

 

Nevertheless, perhaps this thread about custom tail light swaps is limiting itself too much by only focusing on tail light swap adaptations from other cars. I am sure several will work nicely just dropped in, but there still is the issue of an overall, integrated rear end design that also needs to be addressed to assure a look that is not awkward or gaudy.

 

Certainly, for most hybridz project owners this is the box most of us prefer to remain in, that of merely dropping in something quick and economically. However, we could start to think outside the box a bit and consider the larger possibilities of integrating whatever tail light swap or custom designs possible with the concern for changing the whole look of the Z car's rear end design especially if the car has wide flares, big tires and multi tipped exhausts at the rear.

 

For instance, below is pictured a custom Z that I think may have taken 1st place custom body at MSA 2000?. Lots of inspired intent, work and quality finishing went into this car I am sure, but I question the design sense of the finished look because IMO, the builder lost focus on balancing the visual mods within the tail light, bumper and lower skirt areas. IMO, it is all out of scale and fights the original sports car look of the S30. What do you all think?

 

 

Now a case in point of a possibly new direction would be the rear end design and tail light treatment on the Saleen 7 pictured above. If you look at the car as if it were nothing more than a stock 240Z (see Pierre's silver show car rear view look similar to the Saleen 7's outline)) with extra wide flares and a an extra low lower valance panel (ala what Dan Juday could consider because of his gas tank and dual exhaust tip placement) and then look at all the multi dimensional, 3D design concepts resorted to on the Saleen 7 's rear panel areas (contrasting recessed and flush panels with protruding round tail lights and underneath air turbulence extraction cut outs with exhaust tips integrated as design elements to overall look) to match the drama of the side and front design details of the car, you can start to see that similar recessed and 3D effects, although probably more subtle and subdued on a Hybrid Z, could be realistically added to a boldly flared HybridZ cars that would work well.

 

On the other hand, an example of an approach that at first looked quite nice, but later struck me later as lacking in detail and balance, is pictured below that I took of the very, exotic and sensual creation of Pierre'Z shop show car at MSA 2000. IMO, of the Z customs that I have seen, this Z car custom comes the closest to taking rear fender flaring on a Z car to a very natural extension into the present day and points the way toward adding an exotic look as well. Note, I still think it is a great looking rear end custom, but I wish they would have added a bit of relief to the extra large, flat panel finish treatment below the lights, space the twin lights a bit further apart and not have placed the tail lights so far out board. IMO they are so out board that they are creating an uncomfortable visual "tension" in the look.

 

btw, notice the potential in Pierre'z design to accomodate the design cue's used on the Saleen 7.

 

For instance, consider that any Z that has rear end damage to it's panels or bumper or even bad rust out in the lip area below the hatch would be a good candidate for a redesign of the back end using totally non-stock materials and design look.

 

These days, you virtually can not buy a replacement panel for S30 bodies for cheap (they are NLA although, 2 outfits are selling what many would deem, costly aftermarket replacement panels ) Quality used bumpers are near impossible to locate, and new ones are costly and flimsy so why even try to keep include them on your car? Dual exhaust for V8 projects are popular, but it you do not go a similar route to Dan's alternate gas tank, you'll fight many problems and possibly wish you had rethought out a dual exhaust solution prior to having proceeded with older solutions that still leave some satisfaction to be desired.

Secondly, if you decide to dramatically flare your Z you are faced with the likelihood of fiberglass flares not installing solid enough to avoid cracking in new paint due to flex underneath. This mix & match can lead to some real "bummer" surprised to become unglued 5K down the road! Not always, mind you. I have seen some damn good flare addition body and paint work that gives me confidence that it can be done well.

 

Third, once installed, aftermarket flares do not necessarily give a finished well balanced, well integrated design look from the rear view, but rather an "almost" integrated design look.where the lower areas taper down into compromised edges that beg for some kind of lower panel to be added to finish off the back area view.

 

Fourth, if the rear bumper is removed, such as Dan's has been, to accommodate the exit points of the dual tip exhaust, a very important horizontal dividing line design element has been removed from Nissan's S30 balanced design that must be addressed. Otherwise the distance from the hatch lip down to the bottom edge of the valance becomes a very tall, vertical empty space similar to a square box that will fight the performance stance look of wide flares and big tires. Ultimately, IMO, this large area, having lost the bumper's critical horizontal dividing line will become the design space in which any custom tail light treatment must be scaled and balanced to or the end result will end up disappointing and not look "correct" on an S30 Hybrid Z.

 

Just had to get all those thoughts written out once and for all. Dan and I have discussed this all before and I know that he wants to draw a practical line somewhere and not let "project creep" take over his project, bank account and life, but some others here ready to think outside the box here may want to consider rethinking their HybridZ body mods and customs in order to break ground in new directions not typical of hybrid z car projects of the past. Nothing wrong with the approaches from the past, but fresh design and forward looking ideas always jazz the young at heart , the gals on the corner and may even make sense to your bank account in these days of Nissan fast running out of stock parts for your older Z cars.

 

OK, ball's in someone else's court. Any opinions pro or con?

 

--Sleek Z

[Tim240z]

Eric,

I very much agree with your thoughts on Pierre's show car. Although the work was done with a fantastic finish/concept, it does leave the eye wanting a bit more. Perhaps if the licence plate was frenched a little deeper or something?

As I know that you have seen the look I'm busy with, you will have noticed that my approach (maybe not because I am very clever, rather just by happenstance) is to keep the stock lights and change the rear treatment by completely replacing the rear panel over the tailights. This was not because there was any damage to the OE panel, but rather as experimentation in bodywork, since I have had very little experience in that arena.

"In for a penny, in for a pound" is my motto here.

I hope it turns out OK because after hacking out the original panel, there's no going back now. I hope to have the rear completed and at least in primer within the next couple of months so it will be a bit easier to visualize the finished product, rather than the bare metal that is now there.

 

Since 'freeservers' have just stopped allowing image linking unless you pay (seems a bit counter to their name) I can't show my progress here, but I will update my site as needed.

Tim

[Guest Anonymous]

Eric, sometimes you make me want to pull my hair out, damn your pictures. I have been trying to design some rear flares that would be a cross between Dan's and Pierre's. My main goal was not to have to create additional pieces for the doors and rockers. I,m in total agreement with you about having a breaking point in the rear of the car so it doesn't look like a billboard on wheels and was thinking along the lines of a motorspots like rear bumper/valance, the problem is I'm a computer idiot and have no idea how to whip these images together,sooo if anyone could help me out I would gratly appreciate it. Also, are those lights in your middle pic from an actual car? If so, what are they from?

[Guest KraZ4spd]

OK guys what do you think of these?

I really like the look of these. I think these would be alot easier to adapt to the 240 than Supra lights. If you measure out 300zx lights and apply it to the 240, the dimensions will work.

 

Plus everybody will wonder (or never guess) where you got the lights from.

[pparaska]

(Warning, Pete is getting up on the podium to preach non-conformism. Some will want to shoot him after reading this or at least think he's gone off the deep end...)

 

Eric, I agree with much of your critique of the cars shown above. And to me this points out an important lesson - don't pretend you're a Picasso, if your not! Styling (I tend to think that Engineers design things, not Stylists ;D ) is not to be done without a broad eye that thinks about the effects of the changes. The "tension" you describe about the Peirre Z's tail lights for example. BTW, I saw that car at MSA this year and I agree it is a great custom Z body -definitely on my top ten list, if not top 5.

 

I also agree that the first Z you showed above just doesn't look balanced. Not to my liking either.

 

New and different seldom means beautiful nor timeless when it comes to styling. Fads are for shallow thinkers, in my mind. And all a fad is, is a styling concept gone popular because it's new and someone has told everyone it's great. Sometimes it is, but not often.

 

The thing is that I think Dan has done some incredible styling by taking the already certifiably beautiful lines of the Z and adding different custom body kit parts to come up with an original thing of beauty without falling prey to the trendy garbage we see pushed upon us by the parts vendors and then the automakers. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Dan, please think long and hard about what you do with the tail lights. It can really create "tension" and "uneasiness" in how one feels about a car's styling and it's not to be played with hap-hazardly.

 

Please, Dan, don't just go for the trendy stuff that's available out there. Please look at this decision the same way you went about choosing the non-obvious array of parts to come up with a beautiful design that in no way SCREAMS at you, but reminds you of a beautiful thing from nature, like the curves of a beautiful female body, or a sleek feline animal.

 

I may seem over dramatic, but trendy fad crap just drives me up the wall. So many people want to be a part of some accepted club that has hooked onto something that's new and cool.

 

The 1st Gen. Z is and always will be a thing of beauty. Dan has modified it, but in my eye not taken away the beauty, but expressed it in a different way. Putting a row of circular tail lights on it takes away from the gentle non-constant radius curves, in my eye. It kind of erases them by drawing your attention to the circles.

 

O.k. off my soap box

[Sleek Z]

Les

 

Glad my "damn pictures" are stirring you up a bit because I wanted to generate some fresh thinking about all these issues.

 

What will drive you even more insane is when we start to discuss the very sticky problems that arise when any flared or customized rear end look is viewed and photographed from a 3/4 or side profile view. Watch what happens when all your attention is fixated on making only the dead on rear view work and then you see the the other views that show the transitional design elements in the lower flared fender area rear of the wheel where they meet and transition into the side areas and rear panel. Hoo ha, plenty frustration for a customizer. I really struggle with my own design concepts when I get to this point.

 

My life is in a bit of turmoil right now and will not allow me to sit down at a computer for hours on end or even for many days to show you some of the concepts I have in my mind for possible side and end profile transitions on a S30 body, but I do have a few in mind and would love to share them, but it'll have to be later. For now ,above is all I can offer, but I'll keep your questions in mind.

 

Tail light treatment in the middle photo I believe is not from any model car, but rather of the builder's own design crafted with off-the-shelf components and smoked plexiglass. At least that is the way I understood the builder to explain his design o me when we talked at MSA. Anybody know who the guy is or where? He told me he was an "artist"?

 

Note on Blue 300ZX shown above. I photographed the same blue 300ZX at MSA this year mostly to show the tail light design, but I have not published my photo at my website yet. Owner ilives in within 70 miles of me and has contacted me about doing a photo shoot of his car. I believe he told me that he purchased those custom tail lights directly from Japan where they are sold as trick replacements for stock 300ZX lights.

 

Gotta get back to work,but I'll check response here this evening.

 

Cheers,

 

-----Sleek Z

[Sleek Z]

Pete,

 

Excellent comments IMO. Restraint when designing something fresh from aesthetics of the recent past is very difficult and tricky.

 

IMO, Dan did some very creative thinking when he started assembling his mix and match design concept for his project. I liked it from the start..

 

However, Dan just informed me this morning before going to work that he has just taken a 'leap of faith" in a solution suggested in this thread that I am not certain I will agree with him on.

 

Nevertheless, Dan and I have a lot of fun batting around these "what if" concepts, but now I gotta "look out" because when Dan "makes a project decsion" ya don't want to be rock'in his boat once he gets to truck'in on it 'cause he can get that cranky look in his eye if you asking him to rethink some things. In all fairness, I am probably the same way.

 

Dan usually checks mail and happenings here around 5 pm PST after work. Bet he'll have a thing or two to say about all these opinions as well.

 

There's a bunch more to your comments that I'd like to respond to, but I gotta run for now.

 

Ball's in someone else's court. Your serve.

 

--Sleek Z

[Owen]

"Ultimately, IMO, this large area, having lost the bumper's critical horizontal dividing line will become the design space in which any custom tail light treatment must be scaled and balanced to or the end result will end up disappointing and not look "correct" on an S30 Hybrid Z."

 

I half-agree with this statement, when the new Supra came out years ago. I thought it looked so stupid with it's huge rear section. But now, I love the design. Although in my case, I'm probably more in love with the performance capabilities of the car, which in turn led me to accept the rear styling???

 

As to what looks "correct" on an S30, Nissan thought they knew this when they created the car and I agree with them. Some of the mods I've seen try to make the car look overly modern, I know it's a huge problem to balance the looks of the car, but one thing, it sure as hell is nice to see people making the efforts to change the appearance.

 

I'm rambling , someone do a choptop like that photoshop picture that was posted before!!!

 

Owen

[Dan Juday]

Who's cranky?

 

Seriously, you guys make some very good points. Like the 3/4 view. Oddly enough I've been thinking about that today. The dead-on rear view only considers the outline of any custom or borrowed (from another car) taillight. When using a light from another car the contour of that car will, no doubt, not match the Z's. Thus, It will have to be dealt with in some creative way.

 

Pete, I am again flattered by your comments. I appreciate your warning to go into this with caution. Once you start hacking away sheet metal it’s hard (and expensive) to go back.

 

I should have some "things" to play with in about a week. I'm going to start by sticking them in different places with duct tape or other temporary methods and take several pics at various angles. I’ll try to barrow a digital camera and send the pics to Eric to host. Then all can see.

 

Wish me luck.

[Sparky]

ok guys...check this one out...

 

the horror!

 

 

i really have nothing to say about it.

 

nothing at all.

[Sleek Z]

Tim240Z

 

About your site address not showing as a clickable link.

 

Try copying the URL for your site either into your hybridz sig or directly into your posts with out encasing it in any UBB code and I think you will see it will appear as a clickable link in hybridz forum posts back to your freeserver hosted webpages.

 

paste only the following and nothing else.

 

http://tim240z.iwarp.com/index.html

 

Hopefully we all can now click through to your project pages each time you post.

 

Sleek Z

[Guest 400 ci 280z]

after i read this post it got me thinking of ideas on how to do the tail lights. hopefully i can scan a sketch or do a pic of it on the computer. this is giving me some good ideas

[Sleek Z]

 

Chris and others that have been contacting me about this thread,

 

I set aside a bit of time this evening and rounded up a bunch of photos of custom tail light shots I had on my hard drive and published them on my website for the sake of this thread. About half have never been online before. For those of you that dig on Pierre's Silver custom Z , there are 5 new ones taken at MSA 2002 showing the car's tail lights from different angles. Link to photo display is at

 

http://www.zparts.com/showcase/zp_tail%20light2/index.html

 

Terry Oxandale contacted me about an idea he is working on that may surprise you all, but I'll let him announce it when he's ready. I think he wants to perfect it a bit and then show photos later if it flys.

 

If you have a worthy photo or concept illustration to contribute please send it to me at zcarphotos@attbi.com

 

Sleek Z

[zero]

ok i photoshopped this according to what you said you wanted done. Hope you like it. Id be happy to photoshow any other ideas you have on any cars.

[Owen]

Thanks for the gallery! Just my opinions but I think I like DCP_3347.JPG the best. It is similar to 00r10f09a.jpg and 00r11f17.jpg but the main difference can be seen in DCP_3348.JPG. I really like the extra effort made to sink in the lights, now if that car only had a different bumper...the silver DCP_3541.JPG is nice but the 3/4 shot really shows how sharp the rear is, too much for me.

 

Can't wait to see what Terry has come up with this time!

 

Owen

[zero]

more fun notice the exhaust tips, i wonder of that would fix the exhaust fumes problem.

[Sleek Z]

ZERO,

 

Interesting ideas. Can you expand the black inset panel around the lights a bit more and give some shading to it? recess and shadow the license plate and perhaps pull the 2 dual tail pipe insets closer together so they form a V alignment arrangement with the out board tail lights?

 

If you want to start adding realistic color to the silver paint and panel, select the desired silver painted areas, desaturate the selection, brighten the highlights in LEVELS and fill with 20-50% color on a layer above using fill's 'overlay' mode.

 

Thanks much for your efforts.

 

Owen,

 

Good thoughts. Interesting that you'd zero in on a popular tail light kit (image 00r10f09a.jpg )from the '70's no longer in the market, as one of your favourites. I agree, it does have pretty clean style and attention to detail that the flatter panels do not.

 

btw, image DCP_3400 is of a prototype of a tail light panel kit possibly coming to market. I met the designer at this year's MSA show and he told me that he had tentative plans to produce it commercially. It seemed cleanly made and installed, but struck me as a bit bland and the off the shelf back up lights didn't look quite right to me. Otherwise, I liked his ideas and craftsmanship. I told the designer I'd be interested to market his design and gather feedback about it after I publish photos of it. Anybody care to offer their opinions so I can forward them on to him? btw, the guy told me that he worked in the automotive design industry and might develop other aftermarket add-ons. Any suggestions for him?

 

My apologies to Big Phil and Tim240Z for not including their innovative work. It was an oversight in haste that I will soon correct.

 

--Sleek Z

[Guest 400 ci 280z]

sleek i e-mailed you a rough pic of my idea. you can have someone play with that if you want if you think it is good.