280zex Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 So I reciently had my 5 speed gone thru again due to clashing gears. When I drained the fluid there were funny looking chunks in it. kinda like small fabric like teeth? My local trans shop said they were most likely particles from the syncros. I was told by the last shop that did the overhaul that I have a world class 5 speed and to use automatic fluid. Now the current trans shop said I have a non-world class 5 speed and the automatic trans fluid killed my bearings and syncros.. So how is that possible to kill bearings with auto trans fluid? I can possibly understand the ruined syncros, as mabe they were ment for different types of lubricant/friction qualities. I got this trans from an 1982 280ZX turbo, however that doesn't mean that its a world class trans. I dunno how to properly identify this 5 speed and the shop that has it now will not let me take it home to identify it (while its taken apart) and then return for final rebuild. They said I could tamper with it and then sue when it fails. So far the front bearings are shot and all the syncros need replacing. I guess this is what I get for failing transmission class................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 How much are they charging you to repair it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) Do you have a camera? Go take a few pictures of the housing and the internals and post them here. Your 5 speed could be a standard Nissan unit. It is probably a Borg-Warner NWC T5 since it was in a 82 Turbo car but the PO could have swapped it out. That transmission has a lot of webbing cast into the tailhousing and the shifter sits in a large rectangular casting at the rear of that tailhousing. Ont the driver's side of the main case there is a large hex head and a two-wire switch just below it (reverse lamps). Anyway, this would not be a WC T5. There are no fiber syncros or fiber caged bearings. The syncros are brass. The only plastic gears are the speedo drive and driven gear. This transmission is suppose to use gear lube, not ATF. It is possible that ATF caused problems due to a lack of lubrication BUT I have serious doubts that it did. The WC T5 uses ATF and rolls on a lot more bearings without a problem. It is the fine roller bearings of the mainshaft gears (and the fiber syncros) that requires the thinner ATF. Use of gear lube in a WC T5 will destroy it. Since you seem not to be inclined to rebuild it yourself then it looks like you'll have to bite the bullet and pay that shop. Do you have a receipt for the prior build? Does it state that ATF is required? You could have a small claims court option to get your money back! As a side note, it is possible to build a WC T5 using some of the older Nissan T5 parts but it is a good deal of effort and requires machine work on the tailhousing plus a bit more. It is highly unlikely that anyone attempted that conversion though. Edited January 25, 2011 by ezzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarang Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 You need to use a fluid that is rated for the yellow metals in these older transmissions. Redline MTL comes to mind, and that is what I use. Shifts really well ( for the T5). I don't think a WC T5 needs that type of fluid. Also, some of the older literature I have for the T5 has conflicting info. Some say to use trans fluid (80w90) and some say to use ATF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The WC T5 uses ATF. The overdrive syncro is brass. There is probably good reason to research what fluid you are using to be sure it isn't going to eat your yellow metal though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarang Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Some of the older Nissanliterature has conflicting info as to what fluid to use for the T5. If I remember correctly, the owners manual says to use 80w90 and the turbo trans supplement says to use ATF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Thanks ezzzzzzzz. My trans does not look like the pic you posted. So not a WC T5 then. I hate it when I get the wrong information from a so-called trans shop. My fault for not looking for the proper info here first. The last shop that rebuilt the trans charged for replacement of the first gear, all bearings, syncros and the atf for a WC T5. 1040$ with a stock 240mm turbo clutch kit. I did the removal and install. So gear oil it is. There is a local Z shop where I can get an exchange for 940$ with a 1 year warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) The trans shown above is not a WC. It is the original Nissan/Borg-Warner NWC T5. The arrow points to the Reverse/OD lever pivot. The NWC uses a hex head while the WC uses a torx style rounded head. Post a picture of your transmission. I'm interested if it's an early or late 5 speed. Too bad you're 3000 miles away. I rebuild transmissions now and then and have even shipped to California. My builds usually run around $650. Gotta tell you that with a small investment in some special tools and a rebuild kit, you could do this yourself and save a bunch of money. Edited January 27, 2011 by ezzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Well there is no webbing like in your pic. There is no plugs on the drivers side at all. there is a fill plug on the passenger side along with the speedo cable and reverse switch. on the tail end it has the tabs (for exhaust?) on bolth sides. The shifter sits in a round socket and has an inner rubber boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) Does it look like the attached picture? That transmission uses 80 to 90 weight gear oil. It's the common Datsun 5 speed. The drawing is from the 1982 FSM. The shifter mounts in the cylindrical piece on the top of the tail shaft. Edited January 27, 2011 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 ok so I got the trans identified properly. Its a non-world class borg worner 5 speed from a 1982 turbo. So the auto-trans fluid caused the failure. What a bummer. I'm now left with a couple of options. I can get a rebuild for 1k with a new clutch. I can go with the 240sx swap or go with the Z31 and adaptor. Realy I'd like to go with the strongest trans I can get as my Z is turbo charged. I don't know how much RWHP it has due to clutch and trans failure. I figure that I went so bonkers with the engine and turbo build why stop there. There is a racing shop not far from here that does custom trans fitments for high HP cars so I'm gona see about getting a T56 setup for the Z. Its realy not that complicated but comes with big $$$. However I should have no more issues going this route. Done properly ofcourse. Thanks for all your help with my trans identification.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzzzzzz Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Interesting. The photo I attached is a 82-83 Nissan BW NWC T5. If your trans doesn't look like that then it isn't a BW NWC T5. Can you post a picture of yours? We'd all like to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 these pix were taken 7-14-2005. This trans has 8k miles sence these pix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Please tell me you didn't put ATF in that trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) That's just a regular Z/ZX non-turbo gearbox. ATF or the torque you are putting thru it killed it. Replace it with a z32 gearbox and you should be good...assuming you use the correct gear oil . Edited February 3, 2011 by rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Just like the drawing in Post #10. ??? I worry about the world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 You say the Trans Shop, both of them, told you you had a T5? I wouldn't go near a shop that mixes up a BW T5 and a Nissan FS5W71B... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) This might explain where the ATF vs gear oil confusion comes from. The FSM implies either. The picture is from the Maintenance section of the 1983 FSM. Edited February 3, 2011 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Under "Gear oil" I see API GL-4 as the recommended lubricant for both the turbo and NA transmissions. I don't see any ATF implications... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I think that Dexron is, in general, associated with ATF and not gear oil. Maybe it's just mass-media marketing. When I see "Dexron", I think ATF. Google "Dexron" and ATF comes up. Maybe there was an 80W-90W Dexron fluid available in 1983. I just put it out there as a possible point of confusion. Maybe there were two manual transmissions for the turbos, one used Dexron, one 80W-90W. I've been in the transmission sections of the FSM and haven't seen anything describing a manual transmission that uses ATF. Dexron is actually a GM trademark for ATF fluids. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEXRON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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