Xander Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 My main reason for doing this is because I want to run something that no one has done before. I just want my car to be unique In that case you will have to find something else to put in your car because here in Holland there is a guy running a 240Z with a turbo charged ld28. this guy is a turbo guru and is retired now. But he has a lot of projects going on. One of them was this diesel engine. It has a diesel pump of a six cylinder citroen engine And he adapted it to run on the ld28. As I recall it he has about 175 HP and +400nm. I don't know when I will see this guys car again but I will try to take some pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted May 26, 2005 Author Share Posted May 26, 2005 In that case you will have to find something else to put in your car because here in Holland there is a guy running a 240Z with a turbo charged ld28. My car is a 280ZX and I want Twin turbo, it would be unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keith240 Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 Hi guys - I can't help but smile - and comment on this post - as I'm the one who has put the LD28 engine into a 280Z shell. I'll tell you - it's been a year now, and the the thing is rock solid reliable. FAST, too! I'll get right to the ... question ... that you all want the ... answer to ... : ...It get 40 miles a gallon! Yes, I said fourty miles per gallon! ( With gas I could only get 28 mpg! ) Ibelieve it could get even more, but there's no lower numerical ratio rear end availible that will bolt in - I'm already using a 3.36 R180 with an '80 280ZX 5 speed ( .75 5th gear ) I do have a complete Maxima sedan - with LD28 & 5 speed in it... that I'll be parting it out this weekend. I supose I could be enticed to sell the engine from this car... but it will cost you! I can't see selling it now that I know what can be done with it. I was origionally going to build a 3.1 gas stroker with it, but now I'm thinking about building another diesel 280ZD with it and the 5 speed and rear end. Funny, the EPA rated that Maxima with diesel as a car that got 50 mpg ... sorry, I but don't see that ever happening with the Maxima! It weighs about 4,000 lbs! Now, in comparision, my 280ZD weighs 2600 lbs., and I can only get 40 mpg. ( What's up with that!? ) Btw, I get 40 mpg with the air conditioning on, and with a load, AND cruising at 70-80 mph, too. If you want details on how I installed this engine into a Z chassis - and see pictures too, email me at bre66@alltel.net and I'll be glad to help you out. Btw, I'm driving this car ( now called "Stinky" by my friends ... heh heh heh ) to the 2005 National Z car Convention in August. You can see it there on display in the car show! Keith Bailey 240Z project - in the works ... 280ZD - finished '71 510 2 door BRE car '90 Miata w/ BRE stripes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayaapp2 Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 http://www.galebanksengineering.com/tech.cfm here is a great link... "Why Diesels Make So Much Torque" http://www.galebanksengineering.com/Tech_somuchtorque.cfm "Airflow — The Secret To Making Power" http://www.galebanksengineering.com/Tech_SecrettoMakingPower.cfm http://www.galebanksengineering.com/tech_howairflows.cfm "Airflow Equals Fuel Economy" http://www.galebanksengineering.com/Tech_AirflowEqualsFuelEcono.cfm "Part of the reason diesels get better fuel economy and make more power than gasoline engines is that diesel fuel has approximately 11 percent more energy per gallon than gasoline. A typical gasoline has 124,800 Btu per gallon, while typical diesel has 138,700 Btu per gallon. Diesel fuel does have an oily feeling if you get some on your fingers, and it doesn’t evaporate as quickly as gasoline either. It is the low volatility of diesel fuel that makes it less likely to ignite if spilled, but given an ignition source, it will ignite. It is, after all, fuel. So much for that myth.""About Diesel Fuel" http://www.galebanksengineering.com/tech_aboutdieselfuel.cfm "First Air – Then Fuel" http://www.galebanksengineering.com/Tech_firstair-thenfuel.cfm All Links are from Gale Banks Web site. I told you I do this for a living... There is a lot more out there to.... I don't know enough to build a diesel up ...yet, but I know enough to make your 9000lb superduty with 37" tires run 11 sec 1/4 mile times... also this is a big one here: "Understanding Today’s Diesel" http://www.galebanksengineering.com/Tech_todaysdiesel.cfm "Gasoline engines operate within a narrow air/fuel ratio range of approximately 12:1 to 15:1, although some modern “lean-burn†technology engines have been able to achieve significantly leaner air/fuel ratios.Diesels can operate with a broader range as rich as 15:1 or as lean as 60:1, however, going richer than about 22:1 to 25:l produces excessive temperature, soot, smoke, and poor fuel economy. Some aftermarket diesel chip manufactures simply dump in excessive fuel for power, causing the engine to operate in the undesirable rich range, as evidenced by plumes of black smoke. Thermal efficiency of diesels can be, and is, further enhanced with turbocharging to increase the available air (oxygen) to support combustion of more fuel. Gasoline engines cannot tolerate significantly higher cylinder pressure from turbocharging without creating preignition and/or detonation unless high-octane or ultra-high-octane gasoline is used." read all the way through this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76s30 Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 I just noticed this thread going.... doh. just so you can take my word for it I'm an ASE certified heavy equipment tech. lest start with the first thing that really pissed me off. diesel fuel has less btus per weight. well you can't go by weight fuel is measured in volume. If it had less energy per volme then why the hell would we use it in big equipment, oh yeah gas isn't 25 cents a gallon any more we can't just make super huge gas hogs anymore. efficency my friend. a friend of mine had a 87 pete longnose flattop sleeper (all bad for areo) ran a c-15 cat cranked to 600 rwph. reguraly hauled 83k lbs plus the truck he barely got by the scales at 99,800 lbs did 70 mph west coast runs weekly and got 3.7 mpg try that with a gas engine. second you gave numbers for #1 diesel where the hell can u even get #1 diesel any more? #2 diesel has 144,600 btu's per gal. gas if I remeber correctly was 136,*** increasing combustion camber volume might be very difficult on a ld28, I 've only seen one and I remember it had glow plugs, this means it has a precombustion camber its a small little "cup" "shpere" either in the piston or in the head. which the fuel is injected into. the glow plug is there to pre-heat the air. diesel fuel burns beacuse the air is heated past its flash point (the temp/ conditions when some thing will self combust) diesel pistons vary but most are dished, and the heads are also mostly flat, the whole combustion "camber" would be considered a "quench" area. and I'm yet to see an injection pump that can be "cranked" up to 5x normal output. production light duty diesel engines such as the ld28 the injection pumps are purposly built just big enough, with almost no extra delivery available. The reason for this, when the injection pumps get old it will start to over fuel, black smoke high egts, etc. second reason it costs less to produce a smaller pump. modern heavy equipment engines cost as much as a brand new car, they don't skimp, also they build the same basic engine for several power- levels for different aplications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 WOW thats freakin NUTS I just came across this thread while searching about the idea of a turbodiesel in a Z... and I had to refrain from posting in it because it was a 2 year old thread.....but I found it before having checked any new posts on the forum in the last two days.. so I go and see whats new in the L-6 forum, and here is the thread I just read!! strange days.... (it goes without saying that when I read the post before this, I failed to catch that it was a day old...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 Acctually, its just a recently dug up, two year old thread. Although I recently found a complete LD28 for the swap, I'm not really interested in exploring this idea any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I wonder if Keith followed the R230 conversion thread, since the Armada has an optional 2.72 R230 available? Keith, if you see this, e-mail me again, I somehow flushed your e-mail addy, and I got this terrible feeling I owe you some photos from the Rochester Convention---particularly of your Diesel Z kicking it around the Auto-X course. I am a witness, it kicked butt that day for sure!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyCuda Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I've been starting too look for an LD If I was reading you right, you were considering using a compound twin turbo setup on the LD for ~26psi of boost. I've done some basic math that would suggest the t28 or t25 for the high pressure turbo and a large t3 or small t4 for the low pressure turbo. I would definatly drop the compression ratio to 18.5:1 in some fashion, and would look at replacing the stock injection pump with a bosch VE. I think at 26 to 30 psi of boost, you would be in the 200-300 hp range, with 350-550 ft lbs of torque. Would the LD survive this kind of output? At least in an s30/s130 it wouldn't be under a whole lot of load. I may have read through this thread too quickly but it seems no one commenting on the simple fact of compression ignition. XX compression ratio is required to heat the air enough to cause spontaneous ignition of the diesel fuel injected at XX pressure. My cummins runs 18.5:1 and 18,500psi injection pressure, but it is a direct injection engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknomage Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I just got my 1977 280Z 2+2 on the road with its turbo intercooled ld28 diesel engine, power is more than sufficient, but at 800+ miles to a tank and the ability to go on road trips free using restaurant waste veggi oil, I am loving it. My bull mastiff is loving the extra space in the back with the seat folded down you can take a look at my ongoing fuel log if you are interested in real world fuel mileage with this combination: http://ecomodder.com/forum/em-fuel-log.php?vehicleid=2731 This link will take you to the ongoing spec for this car as I customize and hybridize it. http://ecomodder.com/forum/emgarage.php?do=details&vehicleid=2731 I took thorough pics of the swap and can talk details to any one who needs just drop me a PM to answer some of the questions in this post: I am using the stock 280zxt turbo and manifold (get out your grinder to fit it) with a custom down pipe and 3" mandrell bent exhaust with two borla straight through glass packs (for a throghty but quite cruiz tone, I like to talk to my girl on the highway now and then). No angles greater than 60 degrees in the exhaust. I am seeing boost building just off idle with 1 psi by 30 mph, and 4.5 psi by 65 mph on an easy steady level cruise. The LD28 is a unthrottled diesel so it takes all the air it can get and needs no pop off valve. Diesels are variable air fuel ratio engines so you just add as much fuel as needed for the power you want, any excess air is just a working fluid for high temperature gaseous pressure to exert force on the piston. That said when I connect manifold pressure to the aneroid on fuel injection pump additional fuel is injected porportional to manifold pressure density. Power and accelleration are great and fuel mileage is in the high 30's Disconnect this line so no additional fuel is injected under boost and the engine runs extra lean (no problem for a diesel) I still feel the turbo surge but the power is less and I get in the high 40's for miles per gallon. I will be adding a selinoid to only allow manifold pressure to the aneroid at the press of a red button on my shifter, this button will run a few other things like a shot of steam on the turbo turbine to spool it . As I bring this project all together I will get a dyno run for us to google at. No modifications need to be made to the LD28 untill your boost levels approach 20 psi, I read one case history where the stock tired head gasket let go at 20 psi of boost. Just replace it with a better quality head gasket and head bolts if you blow it trying to go with max boost +++ I plan on using the condensation tank in the rear passenger quarter fender as a 2nd fuel tank in a dual tank svo system holding keroseen for easy starts, warmups, and shutdowns. Switching to the main tanks full of veggi oil for cruzing. I might even add a parallel hybrid electric motor on the driveshaft for short runs to the store and back without firing up the engine, or for a little more scurry One indespensiable guage you need to add to your cluster is an egt pyrometer on the number 5 exaust port and keep it under 1300 F and you have a Z capeable of a million miles! diesel is a lubricant gasoline is a solvent how long is your engine going to last? The LD28 for this project came out of my 81 nissan maxima manual that pulled the stock 77 Z 2+2 normally aispirated from fresno california up el cahone up black rock to the high plains desert in milfort utah at 5500 feet above sea level and averaged 38 mpg on the highway pulling a whole other car near its own weight............. Enjoy, and please comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerAce Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 What rear end are you running? Those numbers are good, but TBH I'd expect a little better from a diesel. I'm still tossing around a ZD30DDT swap in my head.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Everyone, get ready.. this thread is about to take off..... Looks nice. Have you checked out the Aero subforum here at HybridZ? Lots to learn there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 good thing I kept one of the LD28s whole and didnt just yank the crank like everyone else. might be fun in the near future if I can find a proper gear set for it (i.e. something lower than 3.36) or just do the r230 conversion. EDIT: would it be feasable to put the switch on the some sort of TPS sensor so that aneroid only sees manifold pressure when you put it more than 3/4 throttle or something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze73 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 This is from my experience with VW diesels (Bosch VE pumps) and I'm not sure what type of injection pump is on the LD. If you are installing a turbo on your LD and are looking to make power with fuel economy a properly tuned IP with aneroid should get you better fuel economy.....as long as you stay out of the boost. Guys who turbo NA VW diesels (no aneroid) need to crank up the fuel screw, which essentially moves the entire fuel curve towards more fuel, if they want to make any boost and therefore power. My 1.6 turbo with aneroid would not make more than 12psi before I played with the fuel.....I unhooked the WG completely and no more than 12psi. With diesels, more fuel makes more heat which makes more boost. Leaving the aneroid hooked up should allow you to keep the fuel screw at a low setting, giving you good off boost economy, while keeping the power available when you need it. I am running a lot more fuel and 20psi in my 1.6TD and I get maybe 2mpg less than I did before the fuel mods....and thats really only cause I drive the crap out of it. Another thing to note, some of the NA VW diesels have an aneroid as well thats meant for altitude compensation....I would imagine the one on the LD serves the same purpose as it is also an NA diesel....this is not the same as the aneroid on the turbo pumps and will not provide you with the fuel you need to make big power. It is mainly meant to cut fuel at high altitudes to avoid excess smoking. I really want to see what an LD can do for power....I've only seen that veggie car guy with the turbo LD in the S30 and an NA swap on youtube...good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyCuda Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Well I havn't been able to find a "cheap" LD in british columbia to blow up. I was thinking of doing a compound turbo setup up to about 30psi of boost. If it holds together then I have the engine I want... and if it doesn't... I might look at ways to convert it to direct injection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 The Ld28 could run into egt trouble with more than 8psi and the stock pump. I'm not really sure what the power potential with longeivity as a concern is on one but there are a lot of blown head gasket stories on relatively low boost. Might want to talk to these guys....they have a forum dedicated to the LD28. http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org/index.php?sid=7273971a8cb1168b8abc5d5e5eb1c2fc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyCuda Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 The Ld28 could run into egt trouble with more than 8psi and the stock pump. I'm not really sure what the power potential with longeivity as a concern is on one but there are a lot of blown head gasket stories on relatively low boost. Might want to talk to these guys....they have a forum dedicated to the LD28. http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org/index.php?sid=7273971a8cb1168b8abc5d5e5eb1c2fc Yeah I'm a member there. Some good information but not quite enough. It seems most people are too conservative to risk blowing up an engine to see what it will do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolton4 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 There's a guy here in NC who has swapped a maxima diesel into a 280. I saw it at a track event but don't recall his name. He said he got 30+ mpg and the performance was only slightly less than the gas engine. Pretty wild to see a 280 go by and hear the diesel sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I believe a marine powerplant manufacturer offered turbocharged LD28 at some point but information is a bit sketchy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyCuda Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I really would like to get my hands on an engine. I need to blow one up! Then build a second engine. From what I have read they use a bosch VE pump, so why couldn't DI pistons be machined, fill the factory combustion chamber and machine to accept DI injectors. Drop a VE out of a cummins application into the little engine to feed everything. I've seen a 7.3 Powerstroke converted to full mechanical, so this idea shouldn't be too unrealistic. I would try to run 18.5:1 and 30 to 50 lbs of boost if I had to go to all this work... Or put a vh45 in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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