Air-conditioned Intercooler...is this possible?

[hughdogz]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm wondering why this hasn't been invented yet. I'm interested in opinions on whether or not this would be feasible.

 

I know there are IC sprayers, N20 sprayers, etc. My idea is kind of a hybrid air / water IC and an air / air. Either that or it is just a glamorized air / water.

 

I think as a first prototype I could simply route the evaporator lines "around" the IC, instead of integrating them into the core.

 

I know there is the whole conservation of energy law, and it would take energy to run the compressor. I thinking the primary use would be to make the IC super-cool before a run at the strip (and while going down the strip). If it could be an electric compressor, this would reduce the parasitic losses if the alternator is disconnected.

 

Am I just pipe dreaming or do you guys think this is a viable option?

 

Thanks, -Hugh

[johnc]

Mount your intercooler with quick release fasteners on the mounting itself and the pumbing. Buy ten identical intercoolers. Before your drag racing day, submerge the each in water making sure you don't get any water inside the unit. Freeze them into a solid block of ice.

 

At the track, swap to a new frozen block of ice cooler before each run. You'll probably need a diaper under the cooler to keep from dripping on the track.

 

That would probably be easier and less expensive then making the refirdgeration unit you're describing above

[hughdogz]

Hi John, now that is not a bad idea either. Thanks!

 

I also thought of making an IC jacket that can be filled with dry ice, that way, no dripping! (just need to figure out what material to use as a conductive blanket)

 

I do like the refrigration idea for heat soak during road racing though...maybe the Wolf ECU could monitor the Intake air temperature and kick on the compressor as needed

[Guest 280ZForce]

oh boy John, after some things I've seen posted online... I can see some smuck reading your post and actually showing up at the track with 10 solid "bolt on" blocks of ice lol.

[hughdogz]

LOL 280ZForce...I hope I'm not the shmuck. I thought that John was halfway serious, now I can he was jesting.

 

At PIR, they sells bags of ice for like $4 and I see guys packing it around their engine between runs (or they set it on the cam cover). I'm not sure how much that helps Man, you guys must think I'm smoking krack!

[DrEaM]

OKAY so i know alot of you guys might think this was a dumb idea but when ford introduced the now old new f-150 a few years ago, svt actually had the same exact idea your talking about and yes it did improve performance. they basically ran all of the lines in front of the intercooler so while driving the outside air would flow around the lines and in turn cool off the air before it hit the intercooler.. its a pretty good idea but ford never ended up comming out with another lightning for whatever reason.. and the system never got introduced on a production car.. but now that i think about it, i always see the condensors located at the front of the radiators on newer cars..scion xb? must have some advantage

[DrEaM]

and oh yea good luck running a turbo car on battery power, i know from experience its not going to work very well

[hughdogz]

and oh yea good luck running a turbo car on battery power, i know from experience its not going to work very well

 

Thanks for the Ford info...maybe someday I'll get some kind of "hyper-drive" system together..hehe

 

I doubt that a turbo motor would drain more energy per quarter mile than an n/a would. I was just trying to say that a super-cool IC would be super-cool!!

 

Muhaha!! ...Back to my "Mad-Scientist" lab.

 

Please keep the feedback / ideas coming...

 

I appreciate that. Laterz, -hughdogz

[RTz]

Hugh, Post 10 and 21... http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=122642

 

Dream, fix your shift key. You've been asked before. Times up.

[jeffer949]

I think that a nitrous sprayer would be way easier and cheaper. And you get the cool spray thing when you get ready to go. Im looking at getting it for my set up.

[Tony D]

wikiwikiwikiwikiwikiwiki... LOL

 

I thought I'd mentioned the Industrial Technology Class Experiment here before...

Curiously, one of the guys that was in volved in that got hired to work at Ford....though he left well before the SVT was around.

 

I made a vacuum jacketed container and use dry ice and alcohol for some testing with a miniature AMOT temperature mixing valve and a 20% glycol/water mix. Damnedest thing is setting up a proper thermal siphon for the cryogenic side because the Neoprene and Silicone impellers in ALL the cheap 12V pumps get hard and stop pumping trying to circulate it. Add acceleration and it screws your siphon action up and your temperatures go to hell... BAH! Don't listen to me, I'm working without pants and scratching myself out in the shed!

[Evan Purple240zt]

Can't you just freeze the intercooler with a fire extinguisher? I swear I have seen that before.

 

Not the powder type! haha.

 

Evan

[Tony D]

Yes, that is very effective. 10# CO2 Fire Extinguisher does a nice -110 F precool of the intercooler and really combats the thermal mass issue. Same goes for plenum style manifolds as well. Nice and chilly between runs. When you pay by the hour, the more runs you do, the more info you get, right? If your regular cooling system can keep up, that is!

 

It is nice to have at a Dyno for more than one reason.

 

I have a bud who recharges fire extinguishers on an 'exchange' basis. I get the run of the "CO2 Pile" and always call before going to the dyno!

 

Helps when it's 'free'... Though a T-Cylinder and siphon assembly wouldn't be all THAT much to offer this as a service at the Dyno. Why they don't is beyond me.

[BRAAP]

Quote of the week...

 

..... BAH! Don't listen to me, I'm working without pants and scratching myself out in the shed!

 

OMG, not a good visual..

[Warren]

they basically ran all of the lines in front of the intercooler so while driving the outside air would flow around the lines and in turn cool off the air before it hit the intercooler..

 

 

Sounds slightly familiar...(picture taken during mockup, completed since)

 

Works for me, IAT's stay low too.

[240hoke]

A/C pulls heat out of the cold environment and rejects it to the outside. The Condenser in the front of your car is putting heat out, not cool air. Consequently placing your i/c there isn't doing anything but hurting the performance. That pipe is also hurting your airflow more then likely because the flow at the back of the pipe is probably turbulent. Not only is it not allowing the air to cool the back of the pipe via convection but the air behind it is going to be stagnate, rendering that area of the intercooler less effective. Is this going to make a noticeable difference?...probably not but something to think about and it would all depend on the air velocity as well.

 

Here is a quick pic from wikipedia about the refrigeration cycle:

 

Hugh what your proposing sounds like it would work.

 

On the ford they must have run the evap (lines coming from the throttling valve to the evaporator) lines through the intake; this would make sense. Making your a/c work in conjunction with your i/c is a cool ide. But like you said; It takes energy to run the compressor so the cooler air would have to make up for that lost power (im guessing it doesn't but i dunno). One would need to preform a lot of calculations before you could determine if it was feasible to make more power with a secondary a/c system.

 

If your designing everything from scratch your self you could even make it like a refrigerator...you could have two separate throttling valves and evaporators and run the high pressure one in the intake for a very chilling effect. Or even have two separate circuits and your could flip a valve and have your a/c cool the intercooler or intake manifold (with its own evap) when you were staging and then turn everything off . It would hurt your a/c performance though inside the car.

 

But enough rambling, everything ive said is based purely on theory, I have never worked on a automotive a/c system or any other type. I usually just rip them out of all my project cars

[jtmny1999]

I remember 4 years ago at the Sema show, this guy was building MR2 intercoolers with passages. They circulated some sort of gas that would freeze them up real quick. I can’t remember the company name………. grrr

[Warren]

"That pipe is also hurting your airflow more then likely because the flow at the back of the pipe is probably turbulent. Not only is it not allowing the air to cool the back of the pipe via convection but the air behind it is going to be stagnate, rendering that area of the intercooler less effective."

 

Never blown out a candle sitting behind a beer bottle? Same effect utilized here.

[johnc]

You guys all need to re-read this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

[HowlerMonkey]

Many years ago we experimented with a car to use for track days (car guys back in the 80s) and we boxed an a/c evaporator and pushed boost through it.

 

You have to be careful of the design you use as some will sound like 50 kids blowing through grass blades when you push high velocity air through them and others are weak enough that the fins flop over and stop most airflow.

 

Ours only energized the compressor when the brake pedal was pressed.

 

Since this happens much of the time on a road course, we also gained engine braking............but...........compressors don't like to be suddenly accelerated to 6500 or more rpms so it was just an experiment that would be good for a single race (maybe) but you would be hard pressed to find any sanctioning body or tech. who would pass off your car as "ok for the track".