grumpyvette

1fastz Member Member # 1715 posted May 26, 2002 02:10 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ROFL grumpy "its a grenade with the pin half way out.. cheap parts at that power level dont live long.. not to mention they left a TON of stuff out on the cost exspect to paya bout 5800 for a motor like the one they built" very true! and yes most magazine article leave out or just plain lie about the true costs, an example I find laughable is the magazine articles that show 600plus hp small blocks useing nitrous with stock cranks, rods, and cast pistons, true it can be done for 1 or 2 runs on a dyno but long term that engines bound to blow

while its true I like chevys mostly because Im not rich and like the most hp for money spent, the next (Z) I build.. if I have a choice in picking the parts, will have a 500 caddy engine and a 4L80e trans and a TURBO 300(Z) rear suspension as I think that combo will be differant and lots of fun!

there are more parts and support for the chevy swap and the extra displacement of the chevy adds additional torque plus chevy parts are cheaper on average, the only plus for the ford I see is that you can get it for free but so is the chevy so no net gain even there,the other guys can give you more swap info.but Im partial to 4l80e transmissions or 700r4 transmissions , the automatics seem to hold up better than the 4-5 speed manual transmissions if you have a tendency to build high hp engines .

http://www.strokermotor.com/383390LB.htm but you can get an engine and trans from a salvage yard that specializes in corvette/camaro salvage like this for less $ http://www.contemporarycorvette.com/wrecks.htm http://www.ranchochevy.com/ http://www.gmsportssalvage.com/ http://www.corvette-specialist.com/yard2.html an LT1 out of a 93 or newer vette with a 700r4 should make a nice combo

- electronic tune up gauges http://www.dakotadigital.com/tech/ODY-13-2.htm http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm http://www.myzero.com/gauges/egt.html http://www.autometer.com/hp/instruc...n_download.html http://www.bitsprings.com/af_main.htm http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrgauge.htm http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=4571 http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/AF_meter.html

ok you might be correct about this is not the place for political humor,(its removed) and I drove a 700hp fuel injected 496 bbc 68 VETTE with 8 injector stacks sticking 10" out of the hood on the street for two years so Im not against hot rod engines and am well aware of the potential problems but if your looking for LONG TERM DEPENDABLITY, air conditioning, reasonable behavior in traffic jams on hot days ,ETC. keeping the cam durration and lift under 240 degs helps, as I said above,my definition of streetable is (can I drive this car the way it is, from new york to L.A. and back and reasonably expect to have no problems) anyone can drive almost any car for a few blocks or miles on the street but thats not a true test of STREETABLE

bubafett you can trust the info in most advertisements and car mags about as far as you can trust the average guy not to look at cute girls wearing see though lace blouses : silicone boy "just how streetable is the cam they used? It's the Comp Cams 294 Magnum, mechanical lifter. I assume the answer is: not very."(YOUR smarter than the average BEAR there BOBO! as a certain cartoon puts it.) . I have very similar components, including the AFR 195 heads, ready to go together, but I was planning on a milder hydraulic roller (any suggestions for a street car that will not be seeing any time on the dragstrip?). I will also be using Electromotive's TEC3 fuel injection rather than the Holley 750 they used, but everything else is the same. the one I use is just a little too wild to be perfect on long trips but over-all its a good chice and Im not going to change it!yes that does mean Im sugguesting it. http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/DisplayCatalogCard.asp?PN=119661&B1=Display+Card but call crane first and talk to them about your combo and tell them thats what I suggested and ask if they aggree and take their advice also,.but if they suggest a wilder cam for more hp stick with this one,but if they suggest a milder cam listen to them, yes you can easily make more power but this cams touque curve is about ideal for mixed street strip useage with a slight bias toward street use. remember to CAREFULLY CHECK ALL CLEARANCESbtw my computer shows that combo with that #119661 hydrolic roller cam at about 475-480 flywheel hp and 500ft lbs 1-386-258-6174 my definition of streetable is (can I drive this car the way it is, from new york to L.A. and back and reasonably expect to have no problems)

IF YOU GUYS WANT TO CUT DOWN ON THE AMOUNT OF TYPING........the short version is...IS SO..IS NOT...IS SO...IS NOT

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.allpar.com/mopar/shield.html 980300 UNIVERSAL TRANSMISSION BLANKET SFI APPROVED $94.43 (http://www.comteck.com/~trans/adapter_plates.htm ) (kevlar scatter shield, the same thing bullet proof vests are made of)

http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/engine_mounts.htm look this over

its been done many times with mixed results, most of the time it fails to work correctly,heres a few reasons why (1)lifter bores in the OEM roller blocks are slightly taller and give far more support (2)the OEM lifters are taller and require the taller lifter bores (3)the OEM roller blocks have a boss cast in and tapped for screws the non-roller block has far less metal to anckor the spider buy the correct retro fit roller lifters, they are lighter,they are shorter to fit your lifter bores, they are in most cases linked together in pairs and can handle the higher rpms better,and the extra $100 in cost is far cheaper than a machine shop will charge to weld in bosses for the spider and drill and tap your block and possiable sleeve the lifter bore to add the needed height

here this is a good start http://www.strokermotor.com/383390LB.htm

here this is a good start http://www.strokermotor.com/383390LB.htm

crate engines are normally rated with flywheel hp numbers these people will build you what ever you want, http://www.gochampion.com/sbcengdm.htm http://www.worldcastings.com/. http://www.shafiroff.com/ http://www.sonnysracing.com/engines_may_2001.html these people sell mostly base level engines http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?action=catalog_start&catid=120 http://www.amerspeed.com/ http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Engines-and-Transmissions/featured.html ??"would it be best to buy a stock GM crate and modify it myself, or to buy an Edelbrock crate or something along those lines?" that depends on the hp level you want, for a 383 around 425hp that will be lots of fun, theres several good crate engines available, but if you want over 500hp you build it yourself or have one of the top 4 listed people build it for you of find someone thats got a great track record over at least 10 years and give some kind of written garuantee as to all parts used, hp levels,and a dyno printout

1fastz if your making 750hp with a carbed sbc N/A (no nitrous,on high test gasoline with no fuel boosters,non-supercharged) useing 23 deg heads and a single carb , you should post more often , I sure need to ask a few questions btw mini rams are one of the EFI intakes Ive found that don,t work very well, the steath ram is far better

here this will get you started, http://oldsci.eiu.edu/physics/DDavis/1150/14Thermo/ToC.html http://epics.aps.anl.gov/asd/me/FilmPressureDrop.html http://www.taftan.com/thermody.htm http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan/engines.html http://biotsavart.tripod.com/ice.htm http://tigger.uic.edu/labs/trl/AllLiquidsVaporPressureEqn.pdf http://www.techfak.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/kap_2/advanced/t2_4_1.html http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan/heat_trans/page1/page1.html http://www.dakotadigital.com/tech/ODY-13-2.htm http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~allan/heat_trans/page3/page3.html short answer , most fuel injection systems have the potential to cool better than carbs due to a more highly pressureized fuel supply,faster fuel atomization and better percentage of fuel/air mix held in suspension due mostly to smaller fuel droplets haveing a faster heat transfer, here reading material. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0891163921/inktomi-bkasin-20/103-8602806-0179837

zoncr "Hey Grump!!! At your advice before I went with TPIS mini-ram set up on my L-98 " ?????? I have never advised the mini ram for any engine at any time, I have advised the HOLLEY STEALTH RAM EFI INTAKE SYSTEM 1fastz "try to make 750 horses on the motor with your tpis mini ram" thats on nitrous Im presumeing?? well theres lots of guys running nitrous or turbos makeing that much hp and more with EFI intakes on sbc engines http://www.montygwilliams.com/ http://www.callawaycars.com/Corvette/Sledgehammer/sledgehammer_article.htm http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~mjr2/cars/supernatural/ and you can easily add nitrous to most of these efi engines, pat musi gets over 700hp from nitrous EFI engines, this is his bbc but he also builds sbcs http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/TchArtcl/Artcl06.html btw the newer EFI systems even allow air fuel ratio changes by individual cylinder and rpm range plus ignition timeing and exhaust gas temp tuneing per cylinder, there no way a carb can match hp with a efi system, yes its totally true carbs work well and are cheaper but as far as total power , no, EFI wins, in any max power race where the efi is tuned correctly, they have not used carbs for years in formula 1, or at indy where power not cost is the goal and NASCAR won,t run EFI simply because they want to keep the change-over costs to the teams and speeds down and they know the EFI would boost power!

Racin_Jason excellent pictures your problem is easily solved with a welder, just cut and move the frame mounted engine mount possition, that should take less than 1/2 hour but try this first, measure how far apart the engine mount holes need to be then pull that engine and put a hydrolic jack between the mounts and see if theres enough (give/slack) to spread them apart about 3/8"-1/2", theres no differance in a 350 engine and a 400 engine as far as mounts go so if a sbc was mounted there a sbc should go back in , if there is enough slack /give your mounts or frame might have shifted or be weakly mounted/welded.

the most common causes are (1)badly miss-adjusted valves (2) coil bind mostly from trying to run a high lift cam without checking your clearances or useing stock springs or heads without the retainer to valve guide clearances checked (3)running stock stamped rocker arms that have rocker stud mounting slots that are too short to allow full travel with higher than stock cams. (4)retainer to rocker arm binding from useing stock rockers on larger vavle springs/retainers (5)valve to piston clearance problems, if you did not make sure there was at least .100 clearance for 20 degs on both sides of TDC on both valves you may have problems,just being able to spin the engine by hand is NOT CHECKING. (6)push rod to head binding, if you changed to 1.6 ratio rockers this happeneds quite often, (7) cam installed 1 tooth off the correct indexing, yes the engine still runs but your down on power and your much more likely to have valve to piston clearance problems do a compression check, if you bent a valve youll be down in the 30-60 psi range on that cylinder if its only slightly bent, check your cam lobes for excessive wear (yes you will need to pull the intake and pull each lifter out and carefully look it over and reinstall it in the same location, to check, if even one looks bad you need a new cam ! things will only get worse if you run it that way, and go through the check list again BEFORE STARTING THE ENGINE AGAIN, you MUST ALWAYS CHECK ALL CLEARANCES

most of us old timers have seen what happends to a car when a flywheel/clutch blows and Ive seen a chunk of flywheel or clutch take the windshield and dash right out of a 283/57 chevy so if you plan on walking around in your old age without prosthesis legs use a lakewood houseing, youll find that the cost is very small compared to new legs. btw running your fuel lines where the frame protects them, haveing the electric fuel pump with a minimal oil pressure cut on pressure switch and carrying a 10lb co2 extinguisher is also a good idea,at least that way if the engine/flywheel blows you don,t have gas continuing to pump out everywhare from cut fuel lines.look here, http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2141&prmenbr=361

when I said 350-370hp I was talking about flywheel hp, thats about 285 rear wheel hp and most (z) cars Ive weighed are closer to 2800lb with driver and a full gas tank (still about 450-550lbs lighter than your average vette)

a nice daily driver with just a little get-up-and-GO will only require 350hp-370hp, that will allow you to hold your own with most hot street cars includeing most stock vettes

since chevy seems more interested in cup holders, lighted mirrors and emissions than kicking viper butt,I guess Ill have to build my own viper killer, looking at options I found this,HERE twin turbos on this engine would keep me happy, since chevy seems more interested in cup holders, lighted mirrors and emissions than kicking viper butt,I guess Ill have to build my own viper killer, looking at options I found this,HERE twin turbos on this engine would keep me happy, ESPECIALLY WITH A GOOD INTERCOOLER AND NITROUS/METHONOL DIRECT PORT INJECTION ADDED http://www.schubeckracing.com/904.htm http://www.schubeckracing.com/more_904.html if your CARS shadow can keep up with your car, you NEED MORE HP their still putting up the site so I don,t have any more info, but simple math says that (hp=tq x rpm /5252) and 4000ftm of piston speed is a faily standard red line so 4000rpm is close to red line with a 6" stroke and if they have just over 1200hp then. 1580ft lbs of tq x 4000rpm/5252=1203hp now with a 2.78 rear gear thats about 3700ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels without any add on power boosters , asumeing a 19% drivetrain loss and with a 0.7ratio 4th gear in an overdrive trans thats 160mph in very short time,in 4th but with that kind of torque they can run a .5 ratio 2nd overdrive that will get them 251 mph quite easily, that might require better tires, better areodynamics and a roll cage:rolleyes: heres software to figure trans ratios http://www.esbconsult.com.au/ogden/locost/gearcalc.htm now figuring a bsfc of .45 that going to require 8, 68lb injectors (heres that software) http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/fuelinjectors.cfm which with a 2900lb car,should get you about a 9 second car, heres a quick check http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/hpcalc.html I guess all that engineering school was not wasted

most of an engine power potential is in the heads flow potential,cam timeing and compression ratio. theres an easy 50 plus hp loss in useing the stock heads over the hp level that could be obtained with better heads, its your choice but if you only get two good parts its heads then cam for your max return for money spent.

the formula is for rear wheel hp, it gives you an answer in rear wheel hp, you need to figure about a 20% drop in drive line loss or to put it another way if it says you need 430hp that means youll need about 538hp at the flywheel.(430hp /8 x 10=538hp) which checks very closely with your figures and yes your correct it says flywheel hp, its a miss printhere this one is labled correctly http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc_etmph.asp sorry about that!