Sam280Z

Sort of and maybe. The way you have it shown, inj 1,2,&3 will fire at the same time. 4,5,&6 will as well. MS switches the ground (- side). You could wire all the positive sides together if you wished. You can choose how the two banks fire, either simultaneously or alternating in the software. If you want individual control, you need an injector driver for each injector. MS only has 2. There are ways to add more. http://www.msextra.com

Another issue is larger turbos. I'm running a Holset and have to run a stubby K&N to fit behind the AC compressor.

Yes, but I am running 12 high-Z injectors. You should be able to get away with 1 fused power supply.

You just need 1 fused circuit that can be tapped from the fuel pump relay output. Wasted spark will be handled by the MS3 firmware since it will not know the cam position.

Update: Almost a year later and this fix is still working great.I'm curious to know if anyone else has attempted this same fix and what your results were.

That tune file is configured for MSII with EDIS. You are using MS1 with some other ignition. TunerStudio will not even load Cygnusx1's msq file with a MS1 firmware project without a ton of warnings. I have no idea what settings you have ended up with. I'm mostly familiar with MS3 and will not be much help except to tell you that you are doing it wrong. You need to read the manual, especially the sections on ignition setup. http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html If you want to use Cygnusx1's "map", you should export each table and import them into your tune.

You need to configure the ignition settings to match your installation. I imagine this is your problem, but need to see your msq to be sure.

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/69706-reaction-disk-pictures-and-walkthrough/

1) I couldn't quite follow how you have the CAS wired. It should be wired as shown on DIYAutoTune . It sounds like it is probably wired this way, but can you verify for us? 2) To diagnose your issue, you should be looking the ignition logger in TunerStudio. It is under the diagnostics tab 3) If you provide your msq file, we can check your settings. The CAS is pretty sturdy. Sam

Turbocharged or NA? I'm not as familiar with MS2, but if you are thinking of going sequential, you can go a bit bigger on the injectors and likely find more options. The key is keeping the idle pulse width high enough (>2ms) (higher is better). I'd seriously consider MS3 or even MS3pro. Expandability is built in. Beleive me, once you get started tuning, you'll want all the options. If you're going turbo, I'd look into staged. You can buy 1990-2000's 19lb mustang injectors by the fistfull cheap. That's what I'm using for my primaries. I'll PM you my # and if you want to discuss, you can call me sometime this weekend. Sam

I feel your pain. Look for an injector that came on a single intake valve engine. It will have a narrow spray pattern. Wide pattern injectors are for hitting two ports/valves. Disc style tend to be better at atomizing than pintle. What are your HP goals? What EMS are you going to run?

Yep. I think we are saying the same thing. However, I am of the opinion that anything you can do to minimize the tau layer is worthwhile (in terms of making the engine easy to tune). You can, with the right algorithms, compensate for any tau layer. The problem is that there is no *direct* way measure it. You have to put in compensation parameters (which change with engine speed and manifold pressure) and see if the engine behaves as expected. If not, adjust the parameters and try again. Go search "EAE" at MSExtra.com and read about all the fun people have tuning acceleration enrichment.You also have to have your VE table tuned spot on first, but the unknown tau behavior affects your ability to tune that. it's a bit of Catch-22. I just went through this on my motor. I read up on injector placement on the TWM website and other places on the web. Everything focused on the effects of placement on HP. I even knew that Joel had moved the injectors to the head on his stroker turbo to solve idle and transient tuning because I own that engine as well. I thought I would be able to tune around whatever issues Joel had because I was using MS3 as opposed to the old TECII. I built the motor with 63 lb/hr injectors in the TWM throttle bodies 7 inches from the intake valve. I drove and *attempted* to tune it for over a year before breaking down and installing smaller injectors in the stock location and using staged injection. This has made the single largest difference in tunability of anything I have done. Transient/tau tuning has become an afterthought in the tuning process as opposed to the driving factor. The build in question will almost certainly not have the same level of tau/tunability issues that I had with mine. But small efforts to reduce the effect of the tau layer will be, IMHO, time well spent. Sam

A bit back from the head may not make much of a difference. Before going through the trouble of welding the bungs, I'd verify the spray pattern with your chosen injectors. Those bungs look long and I'd be concerned about a wide spray pattern hitting the sides of the bung. http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS454US454&biw=1366&bih=681&tbm=isch&tbnid=k6kqo2bJgGteqM:&imgrefurl=http://www.blackstoneautomotive.com/Blackstone-fuel-injection-service.html&docid=_51HcBK6OoeR0M&imgurl=http://www.blackstoneautomotive.com/custom/Spray-pattern.jpg&w=300&h=208&ei=1RekUfKUGYua8wTgrIHwDA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:89&iact=rc&dur=410&page=1&tbnh=166&tbnw=237&start=0&ndsp=15&tx=64&ty=20 If this happens, it will have two effects. One, the fuel that hits the sides will come out of atomization and stick to the side, delaying its availability to combustion. And two, that fuel will then drip in later, adding an extra bit of fuel. This will quickly equalize and have no effect for steady state conditions (except for the large droplets which will not burn efficiently), but the switch from lean to rich under transient conditions can be difficult to tune (can require enhanced acceleration enrichment to attempt to track the tau layer) FWIW, Tau layer and wet manifold behaviour is markedly different in a V8 TBI system than in a 6 cyl individual runner port injection - especially port injection with large injector. TBI V8s effectively have a constant stream of fuel being supplied into the airflow, much like a carburetor. Port injection with large injectors has small injection events which can be very sensitive to timing, hence the movement towards sequential and the gains in drivability and efficiency during transient conditions. I'd put the injector tip as close to the manifold port as possible. If the spray pattern doesn't hit the bung walls, I'd say you are golden. HTH, Sam

One reason not to use studs at the top and maybe why the factory used bolts, is that you can assemble the studs, washers and nuts for the mounting locations shared with the exhaust manifold, slip the intake in and then tighten. You cannot slip the intake on with studs installed in the top and nuts/washers installed in the bottom. You will have to put the shared washers and nuts on while the intake is in place. While doable, this is not easy.

Yes and no. There is a lot more to it than the location of the injector. Having it close to the valve reduces the effect of a lot of variables that add confusion to tuning idle, cruise, and transient states. An EFI system to take advantage allows you to tune for a different injector location, but does not make it easy. Spraying on the back of a closed, hot, intake valve does a lot for atomization. However, lots of valve overlap can send that nicely atomized fuel straight out the exhaust. There is a reason that nearly every factory port injection EFI has the injectors in the same place. For mounting the rail, I made some dummy injectors out of wood to hold the fuel rail and fabbed up the aluminum blocks that bolt to the throttle linkage mount holes. You can see the mounts in the following pics. https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/110595327894846974778/albums/5827006289261665345/5827937482721907826?pid=5827937482721907826&oid=110595327894846974778 https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/110595327894846974778/albums/5827006289261665345/5827937481614790706?pid=5827937481614790706&oid=110595327894846974778 Stud and nut mounting may work, but I'd get the injectors as close as possible. Sam

Compare the Cannon to a stock FI manifold. Note that the manifold mounting holes on a carbed manifold are directly in line with the injector ports. This creates interference with bolts that hold it to the head. The spray from the injector widens as it leaves the injector. If the bung is too long, the spray will hit the walls of the bung, wetting the walls and reduce the atomization. This will be markedly worse if you choose an injector built for a dual port (4 valve) engine because they have an extra wide split spray pattern. You want the tip of the injector as close to the valve as possible. - While this isn't optimal for max HP, it makes for ease in tuning idle, cruise, and transients. Sam

Steve, See post 35 in my MS3 thread. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/102280-ms3-w-ms3x-install-l6-turbo-sequential-injection-boost-control/page-2 I've done essentially the same thing. I don't know if I like the extended injector bungs which are needed to clear the intake to head mount bolts. If you are going turbo, you will need large injectors- I'd be worried about fuel impinging on the sides of the bung. I cut the runners from a stock injected manifold and welded it on to the cannon. If I had it to do over, I would only change the top half of the runner - basically cut the runner in half lengthwise leaving the bottom of the cannon intact all the way to the head and only changing the top mounting locations and injector ports. Your choice between high and low impedance injectors will be driven by your choice of management system. Almost all can drive high impedance. Sam

They charge the actual time it takes. They threw the book away.

Although I do almost all of my own wrenching, I'm lucky to have a shop that does not operate in the conventional manner. This is the only shop that I recommend to friends and family. http://www.agcoauto.com/content/AGCO_Business_Philosophy Sam

Nope. None at all.

I've seen a razor blade scraper used with fast effective results. The paint comes off in sheets. This was followed by 180 grit sanding with a DA.

What HP are you looking for? How nice do you want it to idle or cruise? Large injectors far away from valves make big power but don't idle or cruise well. Small injectors at valves idle and cruise well, but don't make big power. I've tried to get the best of both worlds with staged injection. See my thread here: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/102280-ms3-w-ms3x-install-l6-turbo-sequential-injection-boost-control/

Yes, but I thought that I'd add my personal experience and hopefully prevent someone from choosing a hard-to-tune configuration and sacrificing drivability in the quest for a few spare horsepower (unless they need that hp, of course).

I would say that it depends on a number of factors besides the manifold - such as the injector characteristics, the control algorithm available, and, most importantly, how you want to use the car... I have just switched from sequential injection at TWM ITBs - just behind the throttle plate - to staged injection with smaller injectors spraying at the valves. I think that I was having such trouble tuning the original setup because I was using large injectors (<2ms PW at idle) that it was difficult to account for exactly when the fuel was getting to the cylinder. For a street motor, I would be less concerned with "optimal" placement for power and more concerned with the ease of tuning the transients.

It's looking like it can be repaired. Sticking point is the rear panel - the part of the uni-body that the taillights bolt into. It probably needs to be replaced. Problem is that it is NLA and I haven't been able to locate a parts car around here that I can get it from.