Derek
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Posts posted by Derek
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Before I go for a reservoir I'd like to find out if that is excessive pulsing.
Anybody........
Bueller.....
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Derek, just a suggestion on tuning MS, turn off AE, Over-run fuel cut, MAT correction, etc when you do your datalogging. Even though Megalogviewer ignores records where those are active, you'll see artifacts show up on the edges of those settings, especially since MLV only works with a single fixed delay for the O2 sensor. In other words, it isn't always ingnoring the records that it needs to ignore.
If you turn those off and do a variety of driving (get data all over the map), you'll be pleasantly surprised with how well MLV will tune it. Once you're happy, then turn all the other gizmos back on. You'll find that you need very little AE too.
BTW, if you want to really fine tune, try using MLV in 2 passes. Here's a thread where we're discussing that with the developer: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=26021&sid=552c2dcfce598cd233369af0d77bfd92&p=212159#p212159
My suggestion is at the bottom of the first page.
Sorry for the thread hijack, but hope this was helpful.
Hi Daniel.
I was actually combing through your msq when you posted this.
I'm getting a much better handle on everything. I'm finding that it likes to be around 13.8 or richer when I'm cruising around. Any leaner and it just feels a little erratic. I can see where turning off the gizmos is helping. As I got my VE closer the AE suddenly became way too rich.
Making it run wide open is no problem. It's making it run while your lugging along in 3rd gear in traffic is the tough part! I went in and redid all my BINS to give me better resolution in the around town cruise areas.
Here's a screen shot of me in 4th gear at 2600 RPM. The MAP has some pulsing in it. I'm not sure if this is normal or not. Also you can see the injectors and voltage pulse right along with it. It's running rich.
I can see where this tuning thing becomes addicting.
Thanks Phar. It is so much nicer to drive as well. Also if I go into production it's a simple bolt on affair.New linkage looks good. Pretty cool doing it w/ no cable. I guess that's one more bug worked out. Yah, I guess a longer hex tube to the middle would work better, but I think what you've got is fine, especially if there's no slop in the linkage.I could probably send you $20 via paypal, if you wanted to do more testing. I ain't got much, but this is an awesome project.
Phar
Thanks for the thought on the donation but I've got a couple of projects booked already that should put me right back in the green.
Derek
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This would be my choice but hey I'm biased!
Of course you'd have to photoshop out the nasty engine compartment.
Derek
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Ok,
Who would be interested in putting in a little $$ to help this project along? (I know how it feels. I always seem to have the time and not the money, or the money and not the time).
I am thinking of throwing in a 50 (although at todays exchange rate that comes to about 35) to help with getting derek some more dyno time.
I would like to see a dyno run with stock manifold and new manifold.
Not sure how this would be accomplished though as it isn't a five minute swap.
You guys can think of it like the wind tunnel testing $ pledges.
Yea Baby now that's what I'm talkin about!!! My own stimulus plan. I think we'd be better off spending the money on "Teach Derek how Megasquirt really works" class. I just spent the morning redoing my VE table. I had everything so screwed up I'm surprised it ran as well as it did. The EGO control was really getting a workout. I was trying to fix VE problems with acceleration enrichment's as well.
I'm not smart I'm determined.
Rick I believe I'll take you up on that shroud offer. Thanks.
Derek
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Put the shroud back on, it makes a huge difference. I've taken an old nasty shroud, cleaned it up, and painted it and it looked great. I did this on my wife's 280Z as she NEEDS AC!
Pete
Me no usey shroud because me no havey shroud!
Derek
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Being in Florida, and having AC, I would keep the stock fan and shroud. It will push more air than any single electric fan. You will need to run dual electric fans to equal what a single engine driven fan can do. And then you will be drawing a lot off the electrical system causing more of a load on the alternator, and therefore the engine. You don't get something for nothing.
Just make sure your fan clutch is working properly.
Pete
Hi Pete
I have a 12 or 13" pusher in front of the condenser that comes on with the compressor. Right now I'm not running a shroud. This is the same setup I ran last August and had zero overheating problems. If I run 2 smaller fans the drivers side would blow air across the manifold. This may be advantageous in the summer at an idle. Or not....
Derek
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Well I had a break in my "limited" action today so I decided to take a stab at redoing my linkage. When I did the conversion I ended up using a cable. I really wanted to use rods and continue them from the existing bell crank to the manifold but time issues forced me to use the cable. The cable sucked. It was like a leg press getting it off idle and then it was normal the rest of the way. It was really hard to drive that way.
Here's what I ended up with.
Smooth as buttah!
What a difference. I ran out of hex stock so I'm temporarily using round. The cable on the factory bell crank goes to the cruise control. The bracket on the firewall bolts into the two holes from the pivot on the carbs.
I know I should be driving it from the center linkage instead of #6 and I still might when I redo the rods but I'm going to run it like this for while and see how it goes.
Derek
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All things work together.
If you went with flat tops, cam and maby exhaust, put the old intake on, then the new, at the dyno.
Money permitting.
Getting rid of that fan will surprise you in sound as well as throttle response.
Any one thing can help, but really inproving the entire top end of the air pump (engine) can produce significant results!
The potential of the horns is still sitting there, just needs to be tapped!!!
Fan...fan...fan That's all you guys ever talk about! Electric fan is absolutely on my list as is probably head work, pistons and a cam. But the key phrase was "money permitting".
Derek
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Hey Derek,
Yeah, glad to hear it's still running well after 500 miles. I was worried about the heat shield, but I guess you got that all worked out. You forgot Req #4, You're happy with it.
120HP on a tired engine is pretty good, I know mines currently a lot lower than that. When I can get mine started it smokes up the place a bit. that's the main reason I'm going for a swap rather than rebuild. If I could afford your horns I'd be all over rebuilding my L28. But I'd wager I'm poorer than you these days. I'm certainly keeping you in mind though if it turns out I need anything fabricated. Once I pull my engine, I might have it sold, but if not I'll have a cheap candidate for you for rebuild.
One thought I had on your production versions of the manifolds. you might look at some other I6's like the AMC 232/258 and the GM 4.0 Jeep engines among others like early chevys or fords and get their bolt patterns/spacing and see how possible it would be to swap these to other engines. that way you'd expand your base and maybe sell a few more. Perhaps even make it a 4pc set separating cyl 1 and 6 for width. I dunno, without measuring, I guess that might be difficult.
Phar
Hi Phar
Well now that you mention it I've been wondering if I saw the two inner horns off would they work on a L20? Those 510 guys have a lot more money than we do!
Derek
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WOW
Thanks for the support. And believe me I'm much more than happy with this setup. I guess I was looking for higher numbers so that I could get enough interest to go for version 2.0. Originally I had no intention of selling these. But now that I have probably $20,000 in time (seriously) and materials in this thing I'd like to pursue actually selling a few. Not to mention the ego boost it would give me!
Mea Culpa time. I had an itch in the back of my head since I left the dyno and I just used my data logs to scratch it.
I FORGOT TO TURN THE A/C OFF!!!
I was so nervous and jerky as I was a dyno virgin that I'm sure I left it on. When i have the air on the data logs show 12.5 or so voltage. With the air off it reads 13.5 or so. Both data logs on the dyno pulls show in the 12.5 range.
As the great philosopher Homer (simpson) said.... DOH!
So whats that like 40 or 50 HP? Seriously, it's a SD508 so it's probably good for 4 or 5.
Derek,Given the condition of your motor, you'll make about the same power with your custom TBs vs. the stock SUs given the same AFR at the peak power RPM point. The RPM where it makes the most power might be slightly different between the two setups, but the power will be approximately the same.
You need to build yourself a new motor to really take advantage of your TBs (hint, hint...). I suspect that your TB setup would be comparable to a set of Mikunis or Webers as for as power potential.
A budget upgrade would be some flat top ITM pistons, a fresh valve job and a medium cam. If your cylinders are in good shape, you shouldn't need to bore the block. This would yield a 10:1 CR, and at least 180WHP.
Time to upgrade!
Pete
Must....Resist....Increasing.....Need....For speed!!!
Actually I was looking at the engine calculator and slapping in a set of flat tops and a cam is going to be the cheapest solution to upping the HP. And I think that will put me right where I want to be. The car is great but I wish (boy we've heard this before) it had a little $$$$$$ more grunt.
Well Pete made me that offer about a year ago so he's first in line!My engine is pretty fresh, 87k.Give them to me:wink:
If I do the motor upgrade I may try and put them on a known engine that's been dyno'd
Nor can I. They have never come off the car since the first install. The only thing that has given me trouble was the TPS. Everything else has been tuning issues and minor hose changes. Hell I even slapped cruise control on it!Can't believe you running without a hitch.Not to bring murphy down on you but, there were soooo many things that could of caused a failure, that makes it an amazing success!!
Here's how I know it's making more power. I've got a whole new set of clunks and noises coming from the rear suspension!
Derek
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when I was building my surge tank setup I wondered why everyone dumped the hot return fuel into the surge tank and then back into the main tank. I have mine run that way for now but I plan on re-plumbing it soon now that it's getting hotter out.
Derek
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In a word....Nice
But as the saying goes I have some good news and some bad news.
First the good news. It looks cool, It looks really cool. And it even runs. Oh and it sounds great. So much so I can't seem to keep my foot out of it. Everyone that rides in it agrees it has a lot more power than the SU's. It also starts better, idles better and basically does everything better than my old SU's.
I'm still tuning and realizing more and more power. What's really great is if your just cruising around it runs like a normal manifold. I've had it on a couple of hour long drives and it never gave me even the slightest bit of anxiety.It just purrs along. The heat shield is working as it should and so far no hot start problems in 85 degree heat.
Now for the bad news.
I don't think any amount of fancy NA induction is going to make up for a 8.28:1 compression ratio on an old tired motor. It's just not making a lot of horse power. I took it up to a dyno and paid for a couple of pulls. The results were pretty bad. I'm only making a peak of about 119 hp with about 135 ft pounds of torque. I can only imagine how bad it was with the SU's. And that's the problem. I can only imagine. I had planned on doing a pull with the SU's so I would have something to compare it to but got cheap and lazy and didn't do it.
Oh and did I mention I'm broke!
I had lined up 4 months worth of work in December before I did the final push only to have every project get put on hold. Never seen anything like it before. Of course you hear a lot of that lately.
So My development funds have stopped as well. The $70.00 for the 2 pulls is probably the last I'll be putting into it until I can get straightened out. But at least they're on the car and running.
I figure I'll post some prices and we can see if there is any interest and take it from there.
If someones looking to meet the criteria that I set when I designed these I can guarantee you won't be disappointed.
Derek
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The epoxy primer will keep for a while so you can use it again. If your going for a basic finish I would go with a single stage instead of a base/clear. Keep in mind the shinier the finish the better the bodywork has to be. A trick I've done on a couple of beaters I shot was to put in a little flattening agent in the paint. The car looked great because it was all one color but it wasn't too shiny so the bodywork didn't jump out at you.
You time frame really limits you.
Derek
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Your out of time and and as you inferred lead has a learning curve.
Grind back the old bondo to bare metal. Brush on por-15. NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT when the por is still tacky but won't transfer any black to your finger (latex glove) then apply the epoxy primer. You will now have encapsulated that area as best you can in the time frame you have to work with. If you don't put the primer over the por when it's tacky it won't stick. If you put it on when it still transfers to your finger it will bubble the primer as it out gasses. Not the end of the world though.
Now take Duraglass or equivalent and build up the area. Duraglass is water proof and has a very high resin content so it's flexible. shape it down with a DA sander. Try not to bust through the epoxy primer too much. Now put on a skim coat of rondo. Rage Extream is expensive but worth every penny. It sands really well. Only apply bondo when it's thin. As soon as it starts to cure discard. When the bondo kicks take a can of black lacquer paint and dust the area. This is a guide coat and will show you the high and low spots as you sand. Now lock your DA in a cabinet or give it to a friend to hold. Take a sanding block and start shaping the bondo BY HAND. As soon as you get into it a bit you will see the low spots. Mix a little more bondo and hit those spots. Re guide coat and bring it down to the final shape with the block.
Some things about bondo. Don't buy cheap bondo. It's really hard for novices like ourselves to work with. Don't put a bunch on and try and block it the next day. It will have cured out and it will be a pain to block. Only work one or two sections at a time. Don't just put filler on the area your fixing. If the area your filling is 6" leave 4-6" or more of all the way around it so you can feather it out.
Your going to get shrinkage in your repair areas because of the time frame but you'll just have to live with that. I did!
Derek
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Awesome hose. Been using it for years and never had an issue. I am using 3/8" for the remote auto tranny cooler lines and most of my EFI return line. Estimate I have over 15' of it in my car.
Hard to imagine a hose rated for 250psi being sucked flat by 28 inches of vacuum.
I just spray a little WD40 on the inside tip of the hose before I push it on.
Are you inferring my manifold sucks!
I just looked up the hose I bought from mcmaster and it has a working psi of 250. I ended up sliding a piece of 1/2" od nylon tubing inside it to keep it from collapsing. The brand is w.p. flex lock. I can't find any vacuum data on the hose just pressure. Going with the parker brand may be the way to go.
Derek
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Hi Ed
I bought some 1/2 push lock fittings and some non parker hose from mcmaster carr for my vacuum log. The hose sucked flatter than a pancake. I read the specs on the parker hose and it say's it will take up to 28" of vacuum so maybe it's more ridgid. The hose is a bit tricky to get on but it seems to seal really well. I heated the ends in hot water and used a little soap.
Derek
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Waterproof and long set time before you have to scuff it up for anything to adhere. Most primers have to be sanded to get proper adhesion for the bondo or whatever. The epoxy from SPI has a 72 hour window for re coating before it has to be sanded.
Go here
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/body-exterior/
And search around for epoxy primer and SPI and you'll get a ton of info.
Here's a shot of my car the first time I fixed the rust
And starting to put it back together
This was about 15 years ago and I tried to do it right. Weld through primer. Wurth undercoating blah blah bla. The rust all came back. The paint was so perfect I couldnt bring myself to go back into it and fix it when it was small. Then I had to park it and it became this
Yes thats the same brand new from nissan 1/4 panel that I painstakingly welded on.
This time I went with the glue method and I'll tear into in a few years and fix it again without a care in the world because I didn't spend a ton of time on it.
Man those pictures make me sick. That was a sh!t load of work for nothing.
Derek
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Hi Josh
Here is how I fixed my stuff.
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=128208
Keep in mind I have a full metal fab shop and could have repaired this any way I wanted. The dogleg ended up cracking on the fender well lip but that was because of poor cleanup. I ended up putting a small tack weld at the beginning of the seam and refinished the area.
The biggest mistake I made and I knew it as I was doing it is I rushed the process and ended up with some shrinkage in my repair areas. I wasn't looking for a show finish as it's a daily so I wasn't disappointed.
Check out Southern polyurethanes. I used their products and saved a ton of money. I went with the epoxy primer then the turbo 2k for the filler. Then I used the base system for the top coat. http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/
Derek
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Thanks Dan
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I've had the Nextengine scanner for a couple of years now and the thing is truly amazing. I use it to scan a part and then I reverse engineer it into a more friendly 3D form. Best 3 grand I ever spent. I love it!
Derek
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I did search.
No really!
Here's the deal. Since I got my car back on the road I've had my f4w71b 4 speed and my fs5w71b switched back and forth a few times. The upshot of the deal is I really like the 1-2 ratio on the 4 speed. I've heard that they are the same transmissions but with a 5th gear added to the reverse section. Can I take the 5th and reverse goodies from the 5 speed and add them to the 4 speed?
Thanks
Derek
Oh and I know someones going to post a link with the pertinent info to prove I'm a searching slacker!
But I did search.
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I no longer see it as an option on the search drop down.
Thanks
Derek
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Ok my mount is all the way to the small side of the adjustment slot. So there should be about .200" adjustment which would give you about .400 on the 36-1 wheel OD so it SHOULD work. At the worst you may have to make the slot bigger with a rotary burr.
You can try it and if it's more than you want to deal with you can return it and I'll refund your money.
Derek
Making my own EFI intake... The First Casting
in Nissan L6 Forum
Posted
Hi Tony
Unfortunately that pulse is with a small Kohler fuel filter in line. I have it right at the Megasquirt unit. I'm not sure if it matters or not. Should it be closer to the manifold? I think I have an old multi chamber bong I built in the early 80's that might do the trick though. Boy that bad boy smoothed out the pulses!
I'm using 24LB injectors. I used the "required fuel calculator" in Megatune to get the fuel amount. I'm not sure if that play's into duty cycle or not as I'm a Megaidiot when It comes to Megasquirt. But I'm improving.
Derek