74_5.0L_Z

John, I agree that I should post more on the progress to help inspire others. I try to be a team player, and I enjoy interfacing with my fellow HybridZ members (I am beside myself with anticipation of this coming weekend's SEZ event). Unfortunately, I have two things that keep me from posting progress. First, I am posting from work. So, I post only before work, at lunch, or just before I go home. Second, I don't have a digital camera. I have to rely on others to take pictures. Will there be any other Ford reps at the SEZ event this weekend? I would love to see another Ford powered Z. Dan

The Ford forum is relatively quiet because there are only a few members with Ford engines in their cars. I could post a lot more, but I have been thrashing away getting my car ready for the SEZ event. Since the end of april, I have totally reassembled my car after wrecking it and building a full tube chassis. I guess the other reason I don't post much is that I hate answering questions that I have answered several times before. I post answers when people ask good questions that I haven't seen answered ad nauseum before. Good Luck, Dan McGrath

I did as Mike suggested, and cut off my T/C rods ~ 4" behind the attach point to the lower control arms. I then used a 5/8" R.H die to thread the portion that attaches to the control arms. Then add 4 heavy duty 5/8" rod ends(2 LH and 2 RH), and two clevises, and 4 locknuts(2 RH and 2LH). All in all it took me 1 afternoon, and ~ $70.00. I ordered all the parts from http://www.afcoracing.com

If you are looking for some wheels, centerline is clearancing their discontinued inventory. The Billet scorpion look pretty good on the Z. Ihave a set of 15x8 w/5" B.s (coilovers).

I just finished such a project. Here's how I did it. I constructed a platform (25.1" wide by 8' long) that I stuffed down the driveshaft tunnel between the floor support/ frame rails. The frame rails/ floor supports are at the same spacing. I then drilled holes in the pan and bolted the car down to it. I then leveled the whole thing. I aligned the platform such that the back end was at point "c" of the 260Z frame drawings. Having done so, I could measure forward from the back of the support, or up from the support and the measurements would coincide with the frame drawing. Very important, make sure you establish a solid datum before you start cutting. I'll post a picture of the car on the platform in my personal gallery.

The engine in my car is in nearly the same location as blue_x1's, and I had no problem with the EFI interfering with the stock hood. The closest point is the curved port on top of the throttle body. At the closest point, I could just squeeze my little finger between the hood and the port. This was measured with both the stock and cobra intakes. This being said, I believe some of the aftermarket intakes will hit the hood because the port is higher and further forward. Dan

No, I don't remember the P/N. They are shown in the JEGS catalog for the Ford smallblck Blockhugger application. I posted the part number in one of my earliest posts (circa July 2000). If you search my posts, its there. Good Luck, Dan

I am using Dynomax Block Huggers, and I had to add a universal joint to the steering. Its not that difficult or expensive. Good Luck, Dan

Here is a visual basic routine that I wrote that runs in Excel. The program takes the torque vs rpm curve, gear ratios, shift points, drag coefficients,weight, traction coefficient, etc. The program interpolates torque between given points using cubic spline interpolation. So at time 0 the program uses your engine torque at the launch rpm, multiplies it by the 1st gear ratio, and the rear gear ratio to determine the torque at the back tires. The program then devides the torque by the tire height to determine force at the back tires. This for is then compared to the weight of the car times the traction coefficient. If the force at the back tires is greater than available traction, the force applied to the tires is set equal to the maximum traction limit (good driver). Now here is the important part. The ballistics equation and its derivatives is used to find the position, velocity, and acceleration of the car at a time t+1. At time t+2, the equations are reapplied using the final state from t+1 as the initial state at t+2. This is continued for 2000 cycles to give 20 seconds of acceleration. By the way, this program predicts the ET of my car within 0.1 sec and MPH within .5 mph. If anyone wants a free copy of the excel worksheet, let me know. Sub quarter_mile() t = 0 Dim GR(1 To 5) Dim rpm(2000) Dim a(2000) Dim V(2000) Dim x(2000) Dim T_avail(2000) Dim T_eng(2000) Dim HP(2000) Dim T_req(2000) Dim SP(1 To 5) Dim fpp(0 To 6) Dim es(0 To 6) Dim fx(0 To 6) spline es(0) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("rpm1").Text) es(1) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("rpm2").Text) es(2) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("rpm3").Text) es(3) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("rpm4").Text) es(4) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("rpm5").Text) es(5) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("rpm6").Text) es(6) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("rpm7").Text) ''es(8) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("rpm8").Text) fpp(0) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("fpp0").Text) fpp(1) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("fpp1").Text) fpp(2) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("fpp2").Text) fpp(3) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("fpp3").Text) fpp(4) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("fpp4").Text) fpp(5) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("fpp5").Text) fpp(6) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("fpp6").Text) fx(0) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("T1").Text) fx(1) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("T2").Text) fx(2) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("T3").Text) fx(3) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("T4").Text) fx(4) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("T5").Text) fx(5) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("T6").Text) fx(6) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("T7").Text) SP(1) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("SP12").Text) SP(2) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("SP23").Text) SP(3) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("SP34").Text) SP(4) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("SP45").Text) SP(5) = 6000 TireRadius = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("TireDiameter").Text) / 2 / 12 GR(1) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("GR1").Text) GR(2) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("GR2").Text) GR(3) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("GR3").Text) GR(4) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("GR4").Text) GR(5) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("GR5").Text) RGR = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("RGR").Text) CdA = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("CdA").Text) Csr = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("Csr").Text) mu = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("mu").Text) Weight = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("Weight").Text) n = 1 rpm(0) = Val(DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("launch").Text) 'T_avail(0) = (-0.00003 * rpm(0) ^ 2 + 0.2349 * rpm(0) - 135.84) * RGR * GR(1) * 0.87 T_avail(0) = fp1 * (rpm(0) - es(0)) + fx(0) T_req(0) = 100 * TireRadius a(0) = (T_avail(0) - T_req(0)) / TireRadius / Weight * 32.174 x(0) = 0 'V(0) = 0- t = 1 Do While n <= 5 And rpm(t) < 8000 And t < 2000 V(t) = V(t - 1) + a(t - 1) * (0.01) x(t) = x(t - 1) + V(t - 1) * (0.01) + 0.5 * a(t - 1) * (0.01) ^ 2 If x(t) > 60 And x(t - 1) < 60 Then sixtyFootTime = ((60 - x(t - 1)) / (x(t) - x(t - 1)) + (t - 1)) * 0.01 sixtyFootSpeed = ((60 - x(t - 1)) / (x(t) - x(t - 1)) * (V(t) - V(t - 1))) + V(t - 1) End If If x(t) > 660 And x(t - 1) < 660 Then eighthMileTime = ((660 - x(t - 1)) / 660 * t + t - 1) * 0.01 eighthMileSpeed = ((660 - x(t - 1)) / 660 * V(t) + V(t - 1)) End If If x(t) > 1320 And x(t - 1) < 1320 Then quarterMileTime = ((1320 - x(t - 1)) / 1320 * t + t - 1) * 0.01 quarterMileSpeed = ((1320 - x(t - 1)) / 1320 * V(t) + V(t - 1)) End If Fn = 0.5 * Weight 'F_avail = (-0.00003 * rpm(t - 1) ^ 2 + 0.2349 * rpm(t - 1) - 135.84) * RGR + GR(n) / TireRadius * 12 rpm(t) = V(t) / 3.1415927 / (TireRadius * 2) * RGR * GR(n) * 60 If n = 1 And rpm(t) < rpm(0) Then rpm(t) = rpm(0) End If If rpm(t) >= SP(n) And n < 5 Then n = n + 1 rpm(t) = V(t) / 3.1415927 / (TireRadius * 2) * RGR * GR(n) * 60 shift = 50 End If fp1 = -fx(0) / (es(1) - es(0)) + (fx(1) / (es(1) - es(0)) - fpp(1) * (es(1) - es(0)) / 6) fp6 = -(fx(5) / (es(6) - es(5)) - fpp(5) * (es(6) - es(5)) / 6) + (fx(6) / (es(6) - es(5))) If rpm(t) < es(0) Then T_avail(t) = fp1 * (rpm(t) - es(0)) + fx(0) End If If rpm(t) >= es(0) And rpm(t) < es(1) Then i = 1 T_avail(t) = fpp(i - 1) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) ^ 3 + fpp(i) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) ^ 3 + (fx(i - 1) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i - 1) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) + (fx(i) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) End If If rpm(t) >= es(1) And rpm(t) < es(2) Then i = 2 T_avail(t) = fpp(i - 1) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) ^ 3 + fpp(i) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) ^ 3 + (fx(i - 1) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i - 1) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) + (fx(i) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) End If If rpm(t) >= es(2) And rpm(t) < es(3) Then i = 3 T_avail(t) = fpp(i - 1) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) ^ 3 + fpp(i) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) ^ 3 + (fx(i - 1) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i - 1) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) + (fx(i) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) End If If rpm(t) >= es(3) And rpm(t) < es(4) Then i = 4 T_avail(t) = fpp(i - 1) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) ^ 3 + fpp(i) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) ^ 3 + (fx(i - 1) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i - 1) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) + (fx(i) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) End If If rpm(t) >= es(4) And rpm(t) < es(5) Then i = 5 T_avail(t) = fpp(i - 1) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) ^ 3 + fpp(i) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) ^ 3 + (fx(i - 1) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i - 1) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) + (fx(i) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) End If If rpm(t) >= es(5) And rpm(t) < es(6) Then i = 6 T_avail(t) = fpp(i - 1) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) ^ 3 + fpp(i) / 6 / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) ^ 3 + (fx(i - 1) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i - 1) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (es(i) - rpm(t)) + (fx(i) / (es(i) - es(i - 1)) - fpp(i) * (es(i) - es(i - 1)) / 6) * (rpm(t) - es(i - 1)) End If If rpm(t) >= es(6) Then T_avail(t) = fp6 * (rpm(t) - es(6)) + fx(6) End If T_eng(t) = T_avail(t) HP(t) = T_eng(t) * rpm(t) / 5252 'T_req(t) = (0.5 * 0.31 * 1.8 * 0.002377 * 100 ^ 2 / 2.54 ^ 2 / 144 * V(t) ^ 2 + 100) * TireRadius T_req(t) = (CdA * 0.002377 * V(t) ^ 2 / 2 + Csr * V(t)) * TireRadius If shift > 0 Then T_avail(t) = 0 shift = shift - 1 Else T_avail(t) = T_avail(t) * RGR * GR(n) * 1 End If 'T_avail(t) = (-0.00003 * rpm(t - 1) ^ 2 + 0.2349 * rpm(t - 1) - 135.84) * RGR * GR(n) * 0.87 a(t) = (T_avail(t) - T_req(t)) / TireRadius / Weight * 32.174 'If a(t) > 0.5 * 32.174 + 0.221 * a(t - 1) Then 'a(t) = 0.5 * 32.174 + 0.221 * a(t - 1) 'End If If a(t) > mu * 32.174 Then a(t) = mu * 32.174 End If Sheets("Sheet4").Range("b10").Cells(t, 2) = T_req(t) Sheets("Sheet4").Range("b10").Cells(t, 3) = T_avail(t) Sheets("Sheet4").Range("b10").Cells(t, 4) = a(t) Sheets("Sheet4").Range("b10").Cells(t, 5) = V(t) * 3600 / 5280 Sheets("Sheet4").Range("b10").Cells(t, 6) = x(t) Sheets("Sheet4").Range("b10").Cells(t, 7) = rpm(t) Sheets("Sheet4").Range("b10").Cells(t, 8) = n Sheets("Torque&HP").Range("b10").Cells(t, 1) = t * 0.01 Sheets("Torque&HP").Range("b10").Cells(t, 2) = rpm(t) Sheets("Torque&HP").Range("b10").Cells(t, 3) = T_eng(t) Sheets("Torque&HP").Range("b10").Cells(t, 4) = HP(t) t = t + 1 Loop DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("QM_time").Text = quarterMileTime DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("EM_time").Text = eighthMileTime DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("SF_time").Text = sixtyFootTime DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("QM_Speed").Text = quarterMileSpeed * 3600 / 5280 DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("EM_Speed").Text = eighthMileSpeed * 3600 / 5280 DialogSheets("Input Dialog").EditBoxes("SF_Speed").Text = sixtyFootSpeed * 3600 / 5280 'Sheets("Sheet9").Activate End Sub

Sorry, None of the 5.0L came factory with aluminum heads. I am using Edelbrock heads on mine. If I had it to do over, I would use AFR heads(the Edelbrock heads are great, the AFR are better). Stay away from the 1986 motor. The piston have odd / no valve reliefs and are incompatable with aftermarket cams / heads. Plus the fuel injection on the 86 was known for its problems. Get an 88 - 93 motor.

Let's see if I can muddy the water. Work is defined as the integral of Force time distance (actually the dot product). W=integral(F dot ds) Radial distance is defined as the radius X angle (theta measured in radians) ds = R d theta Torque is an applied force about a point at a distance (assuming the force is tangential to the radius). T = F R => F=T/R => W = integral (T dot ds)/R or W = integral (T d theta) Power is the derivative of work with respect to time therefore P = d(W)/dt P = d(integral(T d theta))/dt P = T d theta/dt (assuming constant torque) also d theta/dt can be rewritten (F R)(ds/R)/dt P = F ds/dt which if ds describes rectilinear motion can br rewritten as P = F V

The first year for the roller cam was 85, the first year for fuel injection was 86, the first year for Mass Air was 1988(87 in california). If you are shopping for a 5.0L, an 87 is fine, but I would convert it to mass air. I prefer the 88-90 motors because they are already mass air, and they have forged pistons(they switched to hypereutectic in 91).

That was with the stock chassis. I haven't yet weighed the car after redoing the chassis, though I expect the car to weigh less, and the rearward bias to be even more. I'll keep you posted.

If you are going to keep power below 350 hp, and if you are going to drive on the street, definately go with the T5. The Z has to use a fairly short tire ~24.7 for 245/50/15, and high ration gears are hard to come by (3.36 is hard to find, 3.545 is more common). Without overdrive, using a 3.545 gear, 6200 rpm in 4th is 128 MPH, and 2900 rpm is 60 mph. With 0.68 overdrive gear 5000 rpm is 152 mph, and 2900 rpm is 88 mph. Sell the top-loader get the T5.

I haven't weighed the engine itself, but I have weighed the entire car and the front to rear bias. 2600 with 16 gallons of gas 1320 on rear 1280 on front My car has 1989 5.0L with edelbrock aluminum heads Cobra Intake 24 lb injectors 73mm MAF 70mm TB T5 tranny Battery in back

Are there any codes set in the computer? During the warm up period, the car is running "open loop" mode. In "open loop" mode, the computer only looks at throttle position. After warm up, the car goes "closed loop" and votes on O2 sensors, MAP sensor, throttle position, etc... Have you replaced the MAP sensor, and have you got it plugged properly into the manifold. Speed density cars need the MAP sensor as the primary input for determining Air flow and therefore fuel requirements. Good Luck, Dan

I have just finished my frame. I replaced all of the frame and front strut towers (I wrecked the front of the car, and the rear was perfect and rust free). The unibody and sheetmetal is still factory, and I use all the stock suspension. I moved the top of the front strut back ~ 1 inch to increase caster, and I modified the Tension/Compression rods to use rod ends. You can see some of the photos of the chassis by going to my personal gallery on this site. I did all the design and fitment myself with the exception of bends. I provided the tubing supplier (The ChassisShop) with drawings of the bends, and they did a wonderful job. My chassis only has six bends, the rest is straight pieces (Bends are $20 US apiece, and 25 apiece if there are more than one in a given tube). Drax is correct about fixtures. I spenta lot of time building the fixture before cutting any tube. I also bought a tubing notcher(ProTools), and it was an invaluable tool in this process; the fit up of joints is nearly flawless.

Hey Terry, Can you define what you mean by handle better? Less understeer maybe? Handle rough corners better? A problem I'm trying to work out is binding associated with the factory style sway bars. In my mind, the only time a sway bar should have an affect is when the car tries to lean. The factory style and aftermarket sway bars that mount like the factory bars bind at the end links as the suspension goes through its range of motion. The end links have to rock in order to accomodate the changing length between the bearings on the frame and the lower control arm, but the factory style links bind. The stock style sway bars also bind at the bearings. This binding doesn't allow the suspension to move smoothly through its motion, and can cause problems (like a mid corner push, and difficulty with rough corners). One solution to the problem is pillow block bearings, and rod-end end links (custom sway bar). A band-aid fix I'm working is the use of spherical bushings(like those used in the aftermarket T/C kits) in place of the delrin bushings of the end-links. This should at least allow the end links to rock without binding. Sorry for the rambling, but I think that the sway bars can perform better, and give expected results if binding is reduced. I have heard of some ITS racers (especially on the west coast ) running stiffer springs, and no sway bars. Dan

It is not all that difficult to do the EFI installation. This is a subject that has been covered extensively by myself, Alsil, SCCA(Mike Gibson), and others. Your best bet is to seach posts in the FORD swap forum on this site for posts by 74_5.0L_Z, Alsil, and scca, then if you have specific questions we'll be happy to help. One word of advice, engine position is critical. If it's wrong you won't be able to close the hood, or use the 5.0L cooling fan. If it is right, then you will be 50/50 weight distribution with the 5.0 . Welcome and happy hunting, Dan

Hey Scottie, I think you're OK removing some material ahead of the strut tower. I'd be more concerned about removing material between the towers and the firewall. If it would make you feel better, why not make up some strut tower braces. Dan

That the next task (after painting the frame rails and the welds). I plan to install the engine and fenders, and then mount the radiator (ala Terry Oxendale) and fenders using 3/8" 0.032w 4130 tubing.

Last May 27th, I wrecked my 5.0L powered 74 260Z. I demolished the front unibody, fenders, hood, etc... The suspension, engine, and body from the firewall back were not damaged. So I decided to cut the car at the firewall, and installed a complete frame, cage, and tube frame front end. I just finished. Pictures of the chassis are in my personal album. What do you think?

Hey Scottie, Why don't you have it looked at by the people at JW here in Rockledge. They are one of the most noted tranny builders in the country. They are also 500 yards from my house. I would love to get you over to see what I've done to the car. I have finally finished installing the full tube front chassis. It looks cool. 321-433-0467 Dan

I'm running 245/50/15 (street tires), and 245/45/16(autocross tires). Both sets are 24.7 inch diameter, and look good on the car. I can only run these tires inside the stock wheel wells because I have coilovers, and the correct back space. 15x8 w5" b.s, and 16 x 8 w 5" b.s

The drawing is an AutoCad 2000 3D model (using solids not wireframe). I will e-mail it, but give me a few days.