Tony D
-
Posts
9963 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
74
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Events
Gallery
Downloads
Store
Posts posted by Tony D
-
-
One of the posted replies cited the injector cooling fan as the 'solution' because when it wasn't activated twice during the Oregon Winter, the car would not hot restart on both occasions.
It was my point that if THIS was the case, then other items are SERIOUSLY WRONG with the car, and discounting a logically-derived method for solving it, running concurrently with the OEM approach may not be a valid conclusion, as it is derived from a bad data set, not congruent with the rest of the cars out there.
It's like saying the engine with a ventilated block has a starter problem and needs a gear reduction stater because the rod binds against the block and stalls the stock starter. Sure, a higher torque starter would probably allow the rod to bust out more of the block and continue cranking....
But you MIGHT want to fix that rod-out-the-side-of-the-block thing before buying another starter...
If it's been missed, remember that in TROPICAL environments the FIRST step is to put a 160F thermostat in there. That drops underhood temperatures SIGNIFICANTLY! I have recorded over 40-50F drop in some cases. Almost everything else after this point seeks to contain heat away from the injector bodies, or remove it from that area... But the FIRST step was to USE THE RIGHT THERMOSTAT FOR THE CONDITIONS PRESENT.
The later S30's vented the hood to let heat out.
The next step was more heat shielding and the WEBBED INTAKE MANIFOLD. (Along with a vented hood.)
The third step was the Fuel Prime (concurrent with the heat shielding and webbed manifold.)
The last step was blower fan, on SOME installations, where all prior steps were already taken save for hood venting on Cedrics, Glorias, Leopards, Laurels, etc.... The cars with unvented hoods got fans, some cars with vented hoods got fans (S130) On many of the UNVENTED HOOD applications, a PLASTIC VALVE COVER was used to suppress heat radiation above shielding in the unvented void, and to suppress noise.
-
And I am far from 'a theory guy'!
I have always been a practical applications person. I correct the theory guys regularly.
But being to explain the reasons for why something happens, or why it works is not 'theory', it may be supposition....
I spent a LOT of time accruing data on these type of issues. At least 18,000 miles on my 76 where I was instrumented with RTD's and Thermocouples all over the car.
The root of my understanding of the mechanics of what causes this issue is more than most. Similarly the prior year I spent 15,000 miles with the same setup on my 74 searching for the "Vapor Lock", "Aftermarket A/C" and "Overheating" issues on the early S30's.
I can tell you POSITIVELY that the conditions, insofar as cooling goes, on that 100F+ Iowa day were BETTER than an 85F day in SoCal. Quantified and proveable in black and white ledgers of recorded temperatures. I have said well over 15 years that location had a big effect on what was going on with your car. And that HANDS DOWN, when it comes to heating/overheating/heat related issues SoCal/Arizona/SoNeVa are THE place to have those problems. ANYWHERE ELSE doesn't hold a CANDLE to them in terms of severity of conditions. There is a REASON every single car company in the WORLD takes vehicles to Las Vegas and runs them on a circuit through Baker, Death Valley, 93, Phoenix this time of year. One reason is that it's cheaper than running to Afghanistan to do it, probably the only other place with similar conditions. If you can't "fix" a heat-related issue applying the same practices that clear it up in that region....THEN SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH YOUR CAR! It's not running right. And then, applying that which works to properly-running vehicles, won't work until such time as you FIX YOUR CAR FIRST!
If I can blast across Iowa at 100mph+, in 103F heat, with an engine temperature (with Aftermarket A/C on high...) of <180F and an interior cabin temperature of 70F without overheating.... I think I understand what is going on and have found the keys to issues most people have. (In SoCal in 85F heat my radiator thermal layer was 140F+, while in Iowa at 103F, it was barely 115F!)
A lot of it surrounds what are now well-established internet myths about this or that... that don't apply, don't work, or are just downright detrimental to the situation!
Each tried, recorded, and reviewed...
A bit further than most go when they slap something on there and if it lets them run, being satisfied.
What hose do you pinch off to drop the coolant temperature 5F at the rear of the engine? QUANTIFICATION of what does what, and WHEN is important to understanding what is going on. Sometimes, it's not what you think!
Having time, and instrumentation, and knowing how to use it can be an enlightening time with these cars. Kinda like the Wind Tunnel Testing done here, it let us KNOW what worked, AND WHY.
If you can't say WHY it worked, be open to the possibility that the guy that can tell you why might know what he's talking about. And the reason he knows this is not because he's 'an internet theory guy' but a real-world engineer with test instrumentation who really really really wanted to know what the hell was the real issue with all these people out there ignoring his suggestions and so he goes on a round-the-country trip taking monitoring data in the hottest part of the Northern Hemisphere's summer to gather the data and go evaluate it and draw some conclusions about what he spent time looking at. One circuit, across the northern route through Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Michigan, Ontario, Wisconsin, Missouri, Oklahoma, NM, AZ, So Cal. The next year through So Cal, AZ, NM, TX, LA, AL, GA, SC, NC, OH etc.... That covers a lot of the area where people on this board exist and represents a great cross section of the possible data acquisition sets possible. High Altitude, Low Altitude, High Speed, High Load, BONE STOCK vehicles without modifications. As best a baseline data set as I could get to make/draw my conclusions.
I'm open to anybody who has documented their modification as well as I to share the data. But don't dismiss my suggestions as 'internet theory' because you want a simple answer like "I did this and it worked for me." That doesn't suit me as inevitably, someone comes back saying "I did it and it didn't work." At least I explained why, and can explain why most stuff doesn't when given enough data.
-
"new Nissan 180 degree thermostat (opened at 185 on the stove),"
So with a thermostat opening 5 degrees late, and not full opened until 195.... meaning temperatures at the back of the head are AT LEAST 215-225F...
Like I said "Fix The Problem"! You car gets hot enough that the cooling fan would be required.
The 'bubbles in the tank' is a criteria I haven't seen before, and I don't know where that comes from. . . Since your car is overheating the BASE of the injectors, and they are not SIDE FEED (something else Nissan did on subsequent models) the cooling fan cools the base of the injector that will still be hot because of the temperature you are running the engine at....the base is hot enough to flash, and when the pintile opens, and the pressure drops, the gasoline flashes to vapor and the restart issues occur.
The root is the TEMPERATURE you run the engine at being too hot for the fuel quality.
This was mentioned in my SYSTEM APPROACH to the troubleshooting. You address the overheated bottom injector by running the fan. Again, having restart issues and 'requiring' the fan during the winter can EASILY be traced to your bad thermostat running 5-10 degrees hotter than it should. Cracking should happen 180 degrees, not 185. It should be fully opened by 190 (not 195)... Too hot tooooo hot!
Fine for 1975 fuels, not so great for current fuels run at 28psi.
"Practical Evidence of what works and what doesn't" isn't what this is, look at the REASONS for what is happening, and it all supports the engineering behind what they did at the OEM. If you're fine slapping something on there because someone says it works, without understanding why...have at it. But don't get PO&B when you start having problems down the road (like having hard starting issues when your fandaid wasn't turned on in the midwinter cool days) and you have (restart) issues!
Looking at the SYSTEM approach, that is the key. I stick by the statement that if you have hot restart issues in midwinter, there are serious issues with your car. That should NEVER happen! Not on even a STOCK 1975 280Z without ANY 'improvements'! If it does, there ARE problems, and your 'practical evidence' is not really applicable! It's a skewed vision. An Anecdote.
Riddle Me This: If I can simply run a 160 Nissan Thermostat, and NEVER have this issue EXCEPT on 110F+ Degree days in the desert after running for two hours at 80MPH towing an 800# Trailer... and my car is BONE STOCK (including the thermostat) what practical evidence does that add to the discussion. Because that is the status of my car, meaning you can go quite extreme before hitting these issues. Solve the ISSUES, not bandaid them to only have them surface later. FIX the ISSUE! These cars are universally improperly maintained, and when properly maintained these issues are simply not that big a deal, and you need do VERY little to 'solve' them when they do.
My 7/78 production 280ZX doesn't have a cooling fan for the injectors, and runs in the same climate as my 76, the ONLY difference is the fuel prime.
Both are PROPERLY maintained. On the RARE occasion that the 76 stumbles on restart after a hot run on a 110F day, the ZX starts flawlessly. Only fuel prime is present in the ZX.
If this is happening "all the time" you need to go FIX YOUR CAR, not stick a bandaid or fandaid on it to limp it along another couple of months until the weather's cooler and you get a 6 month reprieve...
-
Yeah, guys inspired by the 50's took too many drugs in the 60's and were in charge of styling in the 80's... Best I could offer to explain it.
-
Get another head. It's cheaper to start with a good Nissan core with straight valve bores than pay the price to bore oversize make new custom oversized guides....etc...
-
newer cars have higher pressures for fuel volatility changes for atomization. Today's gasoline is like Syrup compared to the light aromatic blends used in the 70's which were high octane but vapor locked when underhood temperatures rose (EGR thankyouverymuch!) Now they have non-return systems, so pressure means capacitance...higher pressure contains more potential fuel with less variation possible within a hydraulic system of a given line size. You engineer for sequential firing of the injectors and the resultant pressure drop and average the pressure for delivery.
You will also note that the newer fuel systems (even as far back as the Z31) have a fuel temperature sensor, to feedback into the ECU for compensation of injection events. It's why the current crop of cars gets consistent fuel mileage. Prior to temperature sensing of the fuel, it was PURELY a volume issue. You injected "X" Volume through a pulsewidth. But that volume of gas was NOT consistent in BTU content. Temperature compensation allows for much more consistent combustion through much more consistent fuel volume (btu wise) than previously achievable in volume-only systems.
-
Something out of General Atomics or similar, no doubt!
Cool find!
-
The last place I worked where porn may have been downloaded,it wasn't necessary. You just had to look around and you'd see an employee getting screwed.
CLASSIC!
I would say at a former employer "Here at XYZ, we're one big family! And incest it best, so we bone our own!"
I can see me using that some time if the future: "I don't need to download porn, I can just look around here to see someone getting screwed!"
-
JDM? More like e-Bay! Chinese castings on good internals....
LOL
-
What's Microsoft? Sounds like malware to me, for sure.
I'm a vegetarian, my preferences run to fresh fruits, like Apples.
Not corporate mush with consensus/committe named products like "Microsoft"!
I know what's in an Apple, delicious goodness!
What's in "Microsoft"? Sounds like something Malo to be sure. "Malosoft"!
-
"You know of a bigger POS than a mid-80s Chevette Diesel? "
Ever run around in a Yugo...
Or Trabant of similar vintage?
By default, just about anything from GM, Ford, or Chrysler in the Mid-80's is a POS, it's only a question of degrees.
Grand National/GNX Regal T-Type a high point in drive trains, but hideously trimmed and appointed! LOL
-
Begging the obvious....but...
Why didn't you just die grinder out the hole and mount your mechanical fuel pump? I've done hat more than a few times.
If you swap your pump cam for the flat washer on later EFI Engines, it works fine.
Outside the USA, they had carried engines to the end of the model run.
If you think this is related to the E-Pump, put a mechanical bac on there...block off plates are a dime a dozen if you don't like it!
-
Pay a visit to JeffP's Extreme 280ZXT site on Angelfire... People who see his inter cooler always comment on "how small it is" compared to the typical FMIC's (mis)applied to most cars.
We have done oil temperature testing in dead airflow with that intercooler making pulls at peak HP (at the time 475hp) that lasted 5 minutes on average. No airflow but rock steady inlet temps under boost for 5 minutes straight.
Listen to engineers who design these things. With a proper core design, thermal realities dictate btu's in and btu's out and btu's rejected will always return a steady temperature. "Heat Soak" most people get is from using turbos out of their efficiency range putting in more btu's (higher discharge temps to the cooler) and overwhelming the coolers ability to reject the heat.
In effect, going to a properly applied turbo operating in its proper efficiency range will result in lower temperatures throughout the system, making more HP with lower inlet temps from the same intercooler!
Jeff is still using his original cooler ate 758rwhp as he was at 450rwhp. The thermal spiking he experienced once crossing 600rwhp was addressed electronically... But that "baby intercooler" works fine in practice on the street.
Never forget it is a SYSTEM and a system design approach as opposed to a, "individual bolt on specification" approach almost always returns more power for less outlay ($$$) long term.
-
"Try not to SPEND too much money on a car that has rust. Rust never sleeps and any rust repair is temporary-it ALWAYS comes back-that's why it's called "cancer." Have fun but be realistic-these cars are basically worthless as an "investment." As soon as your costs exceed $1000, you have overspent on the entire car."
Amen bro!
I dub it "The RebekahZ's corollary of Rust to Dighera's Law of Automotive Investing" which states:
"An automobile is a hole the air, suspended there by four rubber doughnuts.
Doughnuts which you can not eat.
Into this hole, you throw money, which you will never see again!"
-
The injector prime is generally more effective simply because it's easier than setting up the fan properly---and the fan was added in conjunction with the fuel pump prime. The fuel pump prime also helps with a drained battery from extended cranking, and flooding of the car during times when it's not hot.
You can bandaid it all you want, but these things are SYSTEMS and if you choose to employ ONE of the fixes, you inevitably will be disappointed. I run around SoCal in 120 heat WITHOUT fuel prime and don't have a problem. With cheap CA Gas. But I know when I can try to start the car and when it will be fruitless so I don't event try. It means you wait 15 minutes. If I prime it, I can start it anytime. If I added a cooler blower, without prime there is a 5 minute window where it starts, and a 10 minute time when it doesn't. It takes about 2.5 minutes off each end of the inevitable (in 120F heat)....
Now, if I run a 160F thermostat, there is MAYBE a 5 minute total window that it has the problem (instead of 15-20 minutes.) And if I prime it I have no start issues at all.
So add the bandaid blower, which adds weight, complexity and failure possibilities, or lower the operating temperature so you don't get so hot underhood? Hmmmmmmmmm...
If you guys are having hot restart problems "in the wintertime" you have some SERIOUS OTHER ISSUES and you need to get them fixed. I run crappy CA Winter Gas and NEVER have that problem in CA.
The FAN doesn't come on until 215F water temperature... If you need a fan during the winter, check your fuel pump check valve or something, you got serious problems, that fan should NEVER have to run except on the hottest days of summer!
That's the problem with anecdotal evidence and guys on the internet saying 'oh, that didn't work at all for me'....
When they say this, I want everybody following the thread to consider this:
1) a 160F thermostat was available for ALL Nissan Z's.
2) the fuel prime was added to ALL Nissan ECU's in the early 80's.
3) the injector fan was added on SOME S130's, not every one had it as I have seen. Same with Cedrics, Glorias, Leopards, etc...
If it's added to everything, chances are it addresses something at a basic level (likely more than one thing.)
If it's added to some models, it addresses usually one thing in that specific model. If it isn't on every car in a particular model run, then those are very specific, chassis or application related fixes.
As I said, look at the conditions where the fan is supposed to operate. 215F+ coolant temperature. After the engine is shut off... If you are hitting that in the winter, fix the problem, not the symptom!
-
Without the fuel prime, you don't address what causes the no-start. The prime keeps it running no matter which thermostat you have in there. This is a fuel issue, not an overheating issue.
I just told you how to minimise it, unless you prime before hot restart, you will have this issue!
-
You don't. This is covered over and over...
The ZX's used a three second fuel pump prime to refill the rail and combat hot restart issues.
Run a 160 thermostat in the summer to keep the blast furnace of the radiator only blowing 170-180 F air over your engine, and prime the fuel rail on restart before cranking and watch your summer heat soak problems go away entirely.
If I can drive across the desert southwest towing an 800# trailer without hot restart problems in Mid June in 120F+ ambient s, 91 should be child's play!
-
Need a Turbo for that 2.0 Evo, Kid? Good to 9.997 bar with 32C inlet temperature and good interstage (3) cooling!
-
The underhood fuel leaks is a LOT more than what they COULD do on an underhood. There is no functional test of the EGR, no timing check, none of those things that allow you to tweak the car to pass a sniffer that would FAIL you under the normal SMOG check.
Example: I had a 1973 240Z (related this many times) that passed CLEAN to 1983 Standards, using only 71 SU's, an AIR pump pushing air into ONE header primary, and NO CATALYST.
That car FAILED because it did not have the EGR on it. It was a VISUAL FAIL. NOW there is NOTHING in the criteria that says all components must be in place and functioning any longer.
Under classic insurance and this section, my 73 now WOULD PASS as it is ONLY TAILPIPE PASS/FAIL CRITERIA!
Taken in another light, within 3 years, you SHOULD be able to take your 76-78 S30 with an 81 ZXT Engine Swap...as it's now only a tailpipe only test... and...
THANKS for the update, keep them coming. Good information!
-
Yeah, this was more a "I'm getting yellow warm fluid down my back and being told it's rain" snooping.
"You're the only one..." kinda stuff.
One of the things that pissed me off was, apparently, two people in the section where I work apparently actually READ the SOP and Instructions for completing their expenses. Me, and another guy who recently quit. I know nobody else taught him to do it the way he did, and he did it the same way I did....and nobody showed me, I just read the SOP and Instructions and filled it out accordingly.
And THAT is where the problem started "policy states"---OK show me where. "Uh, aaaaah... I'M A PROFESSIONAL I DON'T PLAY GAMES, I RESENT THAT IMPLICATION!!!"
If I was a woman, or a minority, I would have a damn good discrimination/harassment case from what I found. But, alas, I am the evil white male. I must bear incompetence and harassment because....just because.
Argh!
As for porn.... The IT department shut off all external mail servers and banned a bunch of sites at a prior employer. I just stopped taking my laptop with me on the road. Unplugged for weeks at a time. When asked why, I told them I didn't need dead weight. I can understand the restrictions when you're in the office connected to a company network. But as a field service guy, living on the road and in hotels for months at a time there are things like paying bills, personal e-mails, etc... The restrictions were quickly made not-applicable to persons in the service department who had laptops. In a lot of countries where I operate, the internet is not 'free' anyway...can't look at porn if you wanted to! Guys doing it with sheep, yes. But women, or bare ankles.... Not halal, dude!
-
Stock as Stock can be....
-
I've never done that, and my reasons for not doing so are posted previously.
If you use a VSD I suppose you could...see something...
-
You would be amazed what you see. Even at idle it reveals which lobes aren't slinging oil pretty vividly. On spraybars it works better as you can visually watch the streams as the rpms rise and the thing 'burps out'!
-
I don't recommend doing that, it just gets you upset.
Been getting flack for my expense reports...time cards... blah blah blah...
I poked around amazed at finding everybody else's. Great Security there...
Things I was told were 'unacceptable' were found routinely on everybody else's submissions.
Grrrrr....
All this because after the third phone call after I'd gone asleep, and not wanting to deal with a secretary with an attitude.... I hung up on her.
Since then, talk about "bitch magnus"! How DARE I hang up on her! She is a PROFESSIONAL, don't you know (and has mentioned it on several occasions since...)
Oh brother... The job is fine.
But man, this kind of shite just wears you down. And poking around the server confirmed things I never wanted confirmed as it just pisses me off more!
S30 safety
in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
Posted
Our team rear-ended a coasting Dodge Neon at 70+ mph. We didn't lose a lap (because the race was red-flagged, so we repaired it overnight...)
That is a defective reasoning, actually. The key is accident avoidance FIRST. Survivability second.
I wouldn't recommend rear-ending a Neon at 70mph. DEFINITELY not in anything without those huge bumpers!