Tony D
-
Posts
9963 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
74
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Events
Gallery
Downloads
Store
Posts posted by Tony D
-
-
For all those quick to dismiss 'rings' after only seeing a 10 psi rise, at sea level I have had engines with 180psi of compression smoke like a third-world mosquito-abatement fog generator under these same conditions!
Oil control rings don't do a damn thing for compression, and L-Engines are notorious for weak oil control rings. Only problem is the 'clean plugs' testimony. When oil control rings are bad, you will foul the plugs if the leakage is bad enough. I had a stuck ring on my #5 cylinder some years ago, and ended up trying to kill the engine running it like hell and beating it with well over my normal 12-17 psi of boost. After that track day....my smoking ceased. So did my plug fouling problem in #5.
If there is smoke in the exhaust, I guess my question would be 'how much oil are you consuming and under what driving conditions?' If is possible that you can have clean plugs and still be sucking down oil past the rings... My 75 runs through about a quart between 500 and 1000 miles but the plugs are clear and nice light tan. You see it occasionally, you smell it if you are following me, you may even get bits of oil to rustproof your car...but the car has 180psi of compression, dynos to 147 at the rear wheels, and has 225K+ miles on the engine. I don't worry about it, I don't worry what everybody says about it...it runs strong, quiet, and simply uses some oil. One day I may go in and install some valve guide seals because I bought some for it...but it's not imperative I do so.
So how much oil are you consuming...I haven't seen any quantification. Just a complaint of smoke out the tailpipe. If you evacuate your PCV to the tailpipe, it can smoke there as well...
I'd be curious to see what pressure is in the crankcase during the smoking excursions. Many times restricted breathing can cause the pressure buildup and cause leaks/smoking. A catch can in many cases simply adds adequate volume so that the flow of the blowby doesn't pressurize it to a point where it will cause a problem. One with a coalescing element (steel wool looking stuff) helps when there is too much evacuation and the velocity keeps oil vapors entrained in the air---the wool gives the oil something to stick to and drop out of the airstream.
-
Imagine the support demands of a multiple segmented head sold to the motoring public...even if they are 'seasoned'---I know guys who have done field work for 35 years and still can't figure out which end of a dial indicator is up.
I could see it as a 'NASA' style endeavor. Send the whole engine in for service in a crate like they do with Cosworths and Ford Racing engines. The only service allowable is FACTORY service.
Got a knock, pull it, send it in and install your backup.
That is about the only way that setup would be feasible. I would not want to warranty anybody else working on what I assembled. Period.
It's not the manufacturing costs, it's the after-sale service for the lifecycle of the product that makes these companies money (most companies these days)....
-
I think the HKS was concerned with straight flow through the carburettor venturis so as to keep them functioning similarly under boost as they would in N/A mode. I can see that the swirling may hinder the flow somewhat, but I think it's the 'unavoidable tradeoff' you get when packaging that much flow in such a small area. On an optimized industrial compressor, the discharge area for that size turbine wheel and that pressure/flow would be probably 10 to 100X what you have in the HKS plenum. And when you have space, you have residence time. The more time you have before making the next process, the more you can do.
I suspect with the looks of it, they hit several angles to diffuse the air as much as possible before the main chamber---which is what industrial units do---some add flow straighteners in the channel before next stage of compression when a particularly tight bend/casting is used.
As you can see from the links SHO posted, the SK Comp Turbo Box simply has a flat diffuser plate in the box from inlet...don't know how that compares feeding what looks like both ends instead of the three holes the HKS uses, it would seem like the middle carb would be lacking somewhat. My setup was similar but also allowed the air to come in from the bottom of the box, through through many bored holes in the baffle plate acting to diffuse the air somewhat (or so I thought at the time...)
It's almost as if the additional plenum volume gave the air the opportunity to swirl--it seems very linear in the upper plenum chamber where the velocities are higher, even with the two bends entering. I wonder if some horizontal flat bars in the lower plenum (or maybe somewhat 'plus' shaped) about equal to bore's centerline and between cyles 2/3 & 4/5 would assist in breaking up the swirling...
It's modeled now, I guess it's 'easy to try it' now! LOL
-
$2150...wow, makes me glad I found 2 crack free 240 types before I left Japan. I guess the 'used' ones are now worth half new price! WOO HOO!
My bud sold off his spare. I have a cracked up RHD 75 Dash, I was figuring sending it to "Just Dashes" and then rotating them till I get all the cars done (75 and 77)---this way the cars aren't off the road for too long, just dash-swap time.
When you take it out, fix all the wiring!
Good Luck!
-
I agree that it would be hard to do, financially, but if enough are produced in the hopes that it would take X amount of years to sell, if they DO infact sell, it could be a worthwhile long-term investment.
You are looking at around $35,000 to get set up to cast a BARE head.
O.S. Gikken hasn't thought enough of it to replicate casting forms they already have, that may tell you something about the market for after-sale L-Engine heads...
Lots of ifs, coulds, and maybes in that equation, but not a lot of consideration of hard facts of the marketplace. Hard does not begin to describe the effort. Bankrupting is more like it!
You want a Worthwhile Long-Term Investment, buy after split shares of APD anywhere below $45 a share. Far better return than spending that kind of money to build a head that is not legal in any racing class, and therefore relegates it to street and off-class or pure mod classes.
-
Argh...
-
Check out Monzster's post on turbo plenum design. It may not be the flow of the manifold, but vorticies in the plenum that leads to the disparity in airflow.
Sounds like CFD is what you want...to see where the problem may lie---and then get an idea how to best attack it!
Good Luck.
-
Oh, and of course, the aim of helping Monzster out and maybe giving him a direction to go regarding his plenum design---'know where you came from' kind of knowledge. That was another reason. If you can see how HKS addressed the issues, then it may give you an idea how to tackle the same issue. There is no sense reinventing the wheel and wasting all that effort when a good functional example is right there in front of you!
Hell, I have two Type 1 Plenums, one Type 2, and an SK Plenum....so I probably have a bit more to loose than most 'speculators' should I choose to sell my plenums after all this knowledge lets me make one that is better....right?
The only reason I didn't give him the SK Comp Turbo Box (the second one AZCar 'doesn't know what type it is) was I don't have the baffle for the inside of it.
My design was an HKS style external, with the SK Comp Turbo baffle and several diffusers on the bottom, as I couldn't figure out how to segregate the plenum like the HKS was, and because I never actually held it in my hands to look at it, didn't know about the baffling, and could only assume what they did.
I mean I got a box, and if he wants to look at the baffling in the post SHO put up, he could probably model it handily and see if there is a flow difference. When we hook up to return the HKS units, I can bring my SK box, as well as my home made versions.
Now, I'm curious to see the difference between my design and the simple 2X4 Box Extrusion most people seem happy to use (as well as the CARTECH plenum.)
$1500 for a New HKS Type 2 Plenum...that's tasty! Price didn't go up that much since 1989...
-
How much of the in depth reverse engineering do you and MonZster plan on publishing online? I ask because I am concerned that very detailed measurements and or very detailed pictures of the internals could work to devalue the few HKS plenums here in the US. I'm all for scientific research as long as it does not devalue the pieces a few of us had to search out for years to get a hold of. After all I'm sure it would not be appreciated by other plenum owners if I started making castings of my plenum and dropping them for sale on Ebay. Not that there is any intention of that in your research, But if enough detailed information is published (such as scale pictures/measurements of the internal plenum) there are those outside of HybridZ that would not hesitate to profit from a knock off of it.
Hmmmmm, lets see. They originally sold for $1000. They can now routinely be had on E-Bay for around $200-$250. Exactly how much cheaper do you want the part? Do you REALLY think that ANYONE will be able to replicate the box as Monzster has shown it for $250?
If they can, MORE POWER TO THEM WHERE CAN I BUY MINE!
"Devalue the plenums here in the USA".... I don't know how much you paid for yours, but if you're concerned that a plenum currently selling for $250 is 'expensive' you may want to consider another hobby.
It was modeled precisely to determine it's efficacy at the job. Looks like it was very good at what it was designed to do. Curiously, due to the cost in 1987, I MADE MY OWN after spending several hours staring at one in a speed shop display case and making mental notes of placement and sizing and then replicating it as best I could do. Does that make me a bad guy? I doubt I impacted HKS's sales in 1987. Maybe I should give Monzster my homebuilt plenum to see how it compares? That one could be easily replicated by anyone with aluminum welding capabilities.
What would that do to their value then? What if my scratchbuilt aluminum plenum performs similarly? Then why buy the HKS? Then again, who's going to make it for as cheap as you can buy one these days (even at half new cost, or 2X what they currently sell for?)
The part is NO LONGER AVAILABLE from HKS. For EVERYONE'S best interest, it's best to have the information available for replication (IMO), and for evaluation against their own designs. It would be one thing if HKS was still producing them, but that hasn't happened for some years now. That someone overpaid with some intent of gouging another L-Owner, such is the RISK you take when you undertake entrepuenrial ventures. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometime the bear eats you. That's the way it goes.
Sure, there are guys with fantasy prices on them posted right now (something like $650)---seems to me if someone looks at the flow photos posted they now know FOR SURE the box is WORTH the money, and that's it's most definately NOT (as I was once told) "Just an overpriced cast piece with a big price tag because someone's name is on it... you can build one out of extrusion for a heluva lot less!"
Seems that statement has been blown out of the water. Now, anyone got a CARTECH plenum they want to submit to see how it flows? I got a 2X4 Aluminum extrusion surgebox we can model and laugh at...
Debunking myths, adding to knowledge. That's what it's all about.
And Monzster said it all in his post: "If someone wanted to knock off an HKS Plenum, don't you think they would have done so by now?"
Sorry, that got to me. That is so wrongheaded. Sorry.
-
Read your epoxy curing instructions to determine if vacuum bagging will help you. In many cases, curing the epoxy under several psi of 'tension' will increase it's strength. This would be equivalent of say 6" Hg of vacuum in the bag. It helps remove entrained bubbles, etc. The epoxy directions will give you specific conditions under which the strength can be optimized (say cure at 3psi pressure and 180F for two hours). Many times a simple I/R heat lamp can provide all the heat you need. A thermocouple or thermal bulb on/in the curing 'box' can be linked to control the heat source to keep temperatures constant.
I need to read some of these links when I have more time, it looks like good information to review.
-
The deed is done, MonZster is in posession of the Type 1 and Type 2 HKS Plenums for some reverse engineering and CFD to let us all know what the Old-School JDM guys were doing. It's going to be interesting to see what the results are, and what can be learned/relearned from these artifacts...kind of like an archaelogical dig! It may shed some 'new' light on the subject, and move the design in a different way, or it may be a case of us saying "they made 592 RWHP in spite of what they were using at the time!"
-
Ohhhh, those kits would make believers of some Flat-Top owners if they installed them and took the time to get the carbs calibrated properly...
I'm gonna have to get to Autozone and snag me some of these kits...
-
Jeff,
I'll be working at the Garrett R&D facility all this coming week (Lomita and Hawthorne), I PM'd you my celphone number, I can drop by the HKS plenums some time this week if you're interested. Give me a call and I can load them up...or if you're up to it, come on by the GroupZ meeting on Thursday Night (7pm) at Fuddruckers in Buena Park, and I can transfer them to you at that time.
Curious to see what happens when you reverse engineer them! LOL
-
Yes, the 3/16 line is the return.
If you are considering EFI, don't use that for the return, use one of the 1/4" vent lines, the small one will cause some fuel pressure control issues if used with even a stock EFI pump...
-
Hey, what difference does that make? My wife already knows to write me off second Thursday of each month! Romantic fool am I...NOT!
I ended up with a Lokar end and sheath, with a Nissan cable and end. Now working on the quadrant attachment to the SSS manifold.
-
Yes, I touched on this somewhere else in that VW's commonly use 1.25 rockers, and there are 1.5 and 1.7 ratio rockers available.
When you use a cam designed for stock rockers, you can usually get away with running them on 1.25 rockers and get more lift and duration...but at the expense of an altered acceleration rate on the valves. You can run into problems when running the wrong ratio rockers. You can float your valves if you have the wrong set on there. They have different ramps and profiles when you are using 1/5 and 1/7 rockers. And they say so when you buy the cam.
That all being said, we aren't changing the ratio all that much. For the same setup, you are merely optimizing lift and opening time available.
What centering the lobe will do is keep the ratio as constant and near 1.5 as possible. If you draw out the wipe pattern on a moving piece of paper you can visualize the effect a bit better...at least I can. You 'slap' the rocker a bit more when you cheat the wipe pattern to the pivot due to the way the cam approaches the pad...but with adequate lubrication it's not a big deal.
I'd put Don up against the late Racer Brown and Ron Iskendarian in the L-Engine Assymetric Cam Profile Knowledge Camp any day. If you've ever had the opportunity to read the Racer Brown articles on camshaft profile on the L-Engine, you are doing yourself a disservice. Find those articles and read them, they are a WEALTH of knowledge on the subject. And were written in the early 70's curiously...
Oh, and from what I have seen (and you can verify it with your own degree wheel) changing the lash clearance you run will also change the cam timing for that individual cylinder. As little as 0.002" change in lash can move opening and closing events several degrees! It's all in the little details!
-
Guys, LAG is the time it takes to build boost AFTER reaching boost threshold. It's nil in most modern day turbos.
What you are concerned about is Boost Threshold, the point at which the turbo will build full boost.
JeffP's GT35 will do full boost at 3400rpms, so I can believe 4000 on a 2.6L.
Any point after 3400 in Jeff's car, and boost is instantaneous. There is no 'lag'...
To appreciate what lag really is, you guys need to drive some stuff from the 60's and early 70's when you could full throttle it, and literally wait up to a second and a half to get ANY boost to kick in! THAT is lag.
Things have changed. Lag really is a thing of the past.
As for 35 or 37, I'd probably tend to go with a 37 if you think you realistically will have that much power to the rear wheels. A 35 is about all in a little past 500rwhp. And like Monzster said, there are some permutations of the 35 that will enable better spool, so if you want to tone down your power thoughts you can get something with a boost threshold below 3500, and nice on-boost throttle modulation for high horsepower track manouvres.
Where are you in Midland, BTW? I bought my VW Bus from a guy off Salzburg. Next time I come for some time at the Lake, we should get together, I got a cabin on Huron up in Tawas.
-
Stay away from the 'loud' valves. They use high flow rates across the orifice to make the noise. That actually disrupts flow, so they need to oversize the valve orifice to get it to flow what it does.
Listen to a Porsche next time he shifts, and tell me what you hear. Then take a look at how big their valve is...
The blowoff should sound like a big sigh more than anything else. i liked the old Indycar Blowoffs: Nothing then WHOOMP! Just blow open,vent and close as soon as the throttle was reopened. Never heard a 'woosh' or a 'chirp' just the sound that felt like someone hitting you across the kidneys with a cricket bat! Man, I miss 47" Hg Turboboost and manual shifts off turn 11 at Long Beach...
I digress!
-
Wow, I'm suprised the paradigm is so rigid and fast. Glad to see at least katman thinks outside the box!
What ever happened to removing the passenger's seat, rolling it up some boards on to the floor, and then carostrapping it securely using eyebolts in the seatbelt anchor points.
Lower it is, the SAFER it is, and EASIER it is to simply roll in and out with a PUSHING motion instead of a LIFTING motion.
I could (and did) transport my VW Engines in the passengers seat area whenever I needed to take the engine in for service. Heck, I could load that myself, without a hoist, but then it's only about 250#...that's a pretty easy deadlift with the legs.
I'd not put it in the hatch area...it's overloading the rear suspension and there's no real way to secure it properly in the even of a panic braking situation.....er....you're kissing the steering wheel with a severed spine. No thanks!
Passenger's floor, or rent the truck for $19 and hour and .38 cents a mile.
It's like removing nuts and bolts with a hammer and chisel...with the intent of re-using the nuts and bolts sans the corner you mangled in the removal process. Sure, you CAN do it....but why?
-
well that second photo answered two questions my kid had...
"Yes, the SSS Induction system will fit in my 1970 Wagon."
"Yes, the throttle quadrant can be installed without breaking up the stock throttle setup on the manifold."
Now a question from dad: Where did you get the throttle quadrant you used on that setup? And could you sent me a couple of detailed photos of how you got that quadrant to fit???
turbotonyATexciteDOTcom
Thanks! ;^)
-
I've always used a chisel to knock the lock in a loosening direction till I can grip it with a vicegrips and spin it off. It doesn't take but a few whacks to get the thing set and moving, and in about 1/4 turn it spins off easily.
I will have to try this 'new technique'...
I 'learned' the other technique by transferring it from VW's. Poor Teenagers using the "Idiot Manual" got used to removing the 46mm axle nuts on VW Busses using a chisel to drive the nuts off in similar fashion. You can take it off and 'retorque it' three times before needing to find another nut using this technique....
-
I don't know what system you are running.
All that time looking at the laptop in the parking lot, and he doesn't know what system you're running.
Bo, you ever get the idea Jeff may have had one beer too many that night at Fuddrukers? LOL
BTW, nice cameo shot of you polishing the car at MSA last year (at least I think it was you) on the MSA Event DVD (now in stores...LOL)
Get that AFR ironed out and see what your spark does then. If you aren't somewhat close to optimal on the AFR (and 9's and 10's are WAY too rich) then the tendency to light off the mixture REGARDLESS of your coil/plug/gap combination will be low.
-
The impeller blades in the factory pump are far enough spaced to allow plenty of flow with a pump in the lower radiator hose like a Davies-Craig. It will simply bypass the vanes, there is not any interference fit, and it's not positive displacement, it can flow backwards easy enough.
Again, remember that you DON'T want to reduce the pressure at which the pump operates! The higher pressures induced by the pump at higher rpms DIRECTLY affect the incidence of spot-boiling on the surfaces of the engine that is the hottest: upper cylinder walls and head.
Lower the operating pressure in the engine block (at the pump outlet), and you will start to see cylinder wall failures due to steam-impingement cavitation as it eats the cylinder walls and makes them like swiss-cheese perpindicular to the piston pin bores (ask me how I know this....)
You can lower the pressure, but you will correspondingly have to RAISE the blanket pressure on the top of the water (giving more pump suction head pressure (NPSH) to the water pump. More pressure at the inlet will result in the same pressure at the outlet with less work put in...but you will be waiting a time for the inlet pressure to come up due to expansion. unless you want to run an inert gas blanket from an onboard N2 Bottle...
This is theoretical. The HP you will 'save' will be at the expense of metal parts experiencing cavitation and steam pocket formation at lower loads.
For something like a hit-or-miss farm engine, it's fine. But when you start talking about high horsepower engines under load, it's not a good idea IMO.
-
Actually, I would run the 150's and not give a second thought about it.
Even if that was wiping off the end of the pad, it's going to be nosed-over almost instantly thereafter.
Also, now that I went back and checked, the "How To Modify" book mentions running off the end of the pad towards the pivot is safer than running close to the valve end.
The way the dynamics work on that, the pivot end is the safe end to 'cheat' on!
BTW, verify your cam timing!
Also, this 150 -vs- 160 is one of the little things that makes for more HP on the 'exact same engine'. Sometimes a little means a lot (ITS engines mentioned above...)
Having a clear blue mark on the pivot end is clear indication you are 'safe'. Even with some theoretical movement, it's not moving as much as you have 'blue margin'---if it is, you have OTHER problems to worry about! Putting it dead center makes for nice geometry, but saying it's for 'safety' is a bit of a red herring. They don't move that much!
Fiberglass Parts
in Fabrication / Welding
Posted
Is that over the stock fenders, or the lightweight thin steel units that they used on the rally cars?
Muahahahahaha!