Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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The cat won't TAKE much is a better way to look at it.
The cat may cost you fractional horsepower.
But the mixtures you will need to run to ensure it is actually catalyzing will cost you fuel mileage.
IMHO it's better to just run it leaner and pump out more NOx than to run it rich for the sake of a catalyst's operational happiness.
Frankly, I have not looked into Three Way Catalysts too much (which is what I think you need to take NOx down)...
If you run enough EGR under light cruise, I think NOx will be considerably reduced. And because a Turbo Car is so low in the compression ranges anyway, the NOx production is inherently less anyway.
If you could put the car on a Five Gas Analyzer and run a rolling road dyno test on it after your mods, you could see where you are and where you could make improvements.
Really the way OEM's do it...they make power first, then work on drivability and emissions compliance. (Not to say they don't think about emissions in design...but when it comes to ECU tuning, this is the steps they go through.)
Power first, emissions, then work to ge the best compromise between emissions compliance and drivability.
If you work on Power first, then drivability...you will be happy. Then find that five gas analyzer and a dyno...and decide what compromises you want to make and 'how clean you want to be'...
I'd skip the Catalyst until you get it up and running. If you don't need it for compliance right now, just run the car and tune it clean as you can.
If you enable O2 correction and standard narrow band O2 sensor, you can easily slap a cat under there and see for yourself what kind of improvement out the tailpipe you will get. At idle you would make 'nothing' frankly...as long as the cat is hot enough to keep working at idle that is!
I digress, and ramble....
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One of the biggest problems on 'witheld' information is not from people on this forum. It's in the general industry where people simply don't talk to one another.
On an obsolete engine like the L-Gata, there is loads of information that has been learned, forgotten, and then relearned by someone else.
Read some of the Racer Brown Camshaft Articles from the early 70's, then realize that Ron Iskendarian relearned it in the mid 80's, and now Sunbelt is taking similar strides again.
The biggest thing about people thinking they have 'special proprietary information' is that they simply don't know enough about who has done what in the past...
There were single digit Z-Cars in Japan in the early 80's running carbs and distributors. Where did all that knowledge go? There was no easy way to 'share it'.
Chances are very great, it's been done by someone else, and simply forgotten, or discarded as old news when the next generation of engines came along.
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Crap, I got called out on a job, so I didn't get back there.
Just got back home.
Anyway, my stock engine has 55's for idle jets, 52.5's sounds small to me I'd expect a lean pop with that small an idle jet! Many people undersize those jets. They forget the huge accel pump squirt and nozzle size adjustment to mask idle to main transition. Up to probably 3000rpms, you basically run on the idle jets in a mikuini. That's how a set of 40's on an L24 with an automatic and a 4.11 gearset turned in 28mpg at 65 driving LA to Phoenix (least, that's how I rationalize it!) Pathetic when your "Economy Chase Car" gets worse mpg than the hot 'sports car' you are trailing!
I'll get to the crate tomorrow. No concrete to pour, so I should be able to do it no problem.
"Turns Out" is a relative thing. I have seen people who swear 1/2 a turn is 1 turn. Guess the question begs is a turn 360 degrees from seated, or 'one turn of the hand' in which case it's only 180 degrees....
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Yeah, speaking of desmodromic valves, DEVAS wouldn't be out of place on this engine...LOL
What's that, just another $50K...
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Curiously to throw a SOHC rock in the mix here, has anybody gotten flow numbers from the FIA L6 Non-Crossflow Head?
The key to power is flow, and while valve area makes for nice flow at low lifts so you can rev higher....having a stable valvetrain in the SOHC well past 9K begs the question 'just how high do you plan to rev the DOHC'?
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I have a milk crate of old 40PHH's out in the shed, if I have some time today, I'll go knock one apart and take some photos for you.
But really, if you soak the bodies in carb cleaner and blow it out with a good compressed air gun with a rubber nozzle, it should dislodge everything in there. Blowing backwards through all the circuits if you can also is a good idea.
And for anybody else reading this, no, they are not for sale. And yes, I do mean literally a 'milk crate full'...I'll take photos of it as well...LOL
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With a catalyst you are stuck running 14.7:1 AFR for proper catalyst operation.
If you lean out considerably from that point, the cat has a problem lighting off and sustaining catalytic action to properly scrub the exhaust.
If you take a look at some of those AFR charts that chart NOx, CO and HC, you will find that you can get REALLY clean by running leaner, though at the expense of NOx that skyrockets.
I could lean out my 71 SU carbs to pass a tailpipe test for a catalyzed 83 car! That was pre-rolling roady dyno testing, and I KNOW the NOX was skyhigh. But the CO and HC were CLEAN! When the 73 gets refitted with EFI, I will not be running a catalyst, but know the CO and HC will be low enough that I will sleep well at night knowing I'm clean. It's also why I keep that Federal 75 2+2 out back. The thought of a "NON CATALYST" stock EFI Z-Car appeals to me, as I know without the cat, it can still be clean.
If you discount the NOx issue, you can be very clean CO and HC wise.
Keep this in mind, though: Over 3500rpms, and over 75 or 80mph, almost every car produced is in 'open loop' mode anyway! The cat is along for the ride then as there is plenty of heat being forced down the pipe to keep the cat working on a three way catalytic action.
Some catalysts can be set up to attend to the NOx issue. Stationary powerplants using Recip Engines (natural gas fueled) run super lean, like 22:1 AFR, and run special catalysts to attend to the NOx.
I digress...
Tune the car for both...really! Your car will be light loaded when cruising and can be tuned 'lean' while once you get to say 54Kpa, or above 3500rpms, and/or say 40% throttle opening your fuel mixtures can take a quick jump to the 13:1 and richer ranges for maximum power.
Really, you aren't concerned with 'max power' at a throttle opening at any rpm that would produce say, 40kpa in the inlet manifold so tuning that bin lean would give you fuel economy as well as the lower emissions (CO and HC wise) that come hand-in-hand with that tune.
After 50 or 60 Kpa and 40% throttle opening you are definately "on the throttle" and want the rich mixture for maximum power and to decrease your EGT's if you are holding it at that point for a long time (like high speed runs at 100+mph across I-80 between SLC and Reno...er...uh...theoretically speaking...yeah, 'theoretically speaking'!!!)
Really, though, the car should pass emissions testing without a catalyst at all. The catalyst scrubs 'excursions' like that quick acceleration burst when you are running the FACTORY fuel curve at 12:1. When you are light cruising, the catalyst is basically along for the ride and not doing too much...if your fuel curve is proper.
I am awaiting a full Allen Diagnostic Machine for the house. My bud got one from Delaware. Apparently it was the same machine Del was using for emissions testing till recently. If you can pass a simple tailpipe sniffer test at idle and 2500 with a good five gas readout you will know what your engine is doing. If you can take that same test on a rolling road and make your own decision on power versus emissions output, all the better. Tune it where you have the balance you want, and then you're done!
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Before you go there, check the idle mixture adjustment screw against another one.
I have seen countless screws with the tip twisted off and lodged in the idle port, causing this problem. People overtorque the screws when 'seating' the screw, and when they back-off to start idle fuel adjustment, the tip remains in the body.
REmoving the broken tip is as easy as pulling the carb, inverting it, and pressing carefully with the tip of a screwdriver---you can usually see the tip sticking out of the idle mixture hole!
Other than that, anything that would get into those passages should be relatively easy to dislodge using high pressure air, with an appropriately Non-OSHA Approved Rubber-Tipped Blow Gun (for that 'occlusive seal' to really put pressure on the passages and blow what ails-ya out!)
As I recall, there are some larger flat-bladed screws that you can remove to open up access to the idle/transition ports for inspection. It's where the machinery in production drilled the holes (but this may be a Weber or Dellorto...)
If you mean the simple lead BB's pressed into the body, make sure Wolf Creek Racing can supply you with new ones before you remove them! Because the only way I know of to get 'em out is by drilling them out. And once they're gone...if you can't replace them, it becomes a case of the cure being worse than the original disease!
Good Luck.
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I didn't think i could use a punch w/ the closeness of the cylinder wall. That is how i got the other 9 out but the ones on the end are giving me trouble. HELP! Thanks.
Slidehammer with the 'screw end' attachment. I have also seen people drill a hole and use the slidehammer with the 'hook' attachment to pluck them out.
Good Luck removing those core plugs.
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520rwhp on a stock bottom end, stock p-90 head,(no porting) with unk aftermarket mild cam, turbo tom setup, huge turbo, at ~ 28psi and nitrous,(something around a 75-100 shot).
The previous owner ran stock blocks all the time. (I say blocks plural because he would burn one tuning, pick up another at a junk yard and run it on the track for several months.
That wasn't Steve at Alamo, was it?
That second paragraph sounds like my racing program! I know it's what I recommend to most people starting out. Burn up those stockers till you get your techinque down, then put the money into the internals for the final edition with tuning close and you proficient in the process. Besides, you need a 'core engine' for that final build anyway, right?
You're not burning em up, you're 'creating core engines'!
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I'd wear a mask (respirator).
My understanding is during the combusion process you get cyanide gas...not sure how Zn turns to cyanide, but that was the gas I was told was produced. Anybody know for sure? TLV and Trace exposure are two different things. OSHA says you can stand next to our compressors for 8 hours a day without ear protection since they are only 85DBA...but I can tell you what OSHA allows and 'what is good for a person' aren't necessarily the same thing. Short term or long term. When in doubt, ventilate and Respirator-Up!
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Wow, someone posted it on You-Tube. I've had that on a DVD for a while.
Nuke Spark Plugs anybody?
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I sold my 76 Celica GT to a stupid kid who ended up running it up a guy wire to a telephone pole...somewhere I have a photo of it hanging by the left front wheel/suspension member. They were 'doing curves' (what they called Togue in Japan at the time, today they call it 'Drifting') and went off, snagging the wire.
After that, he suck to 'drag racing'...
That car got him discharged from the USAF. (It was evil, trust me!)
Oh, sounds like this guy did the same thing! Except the Celica was still on the guide wire, not on the actual wires from pole-to-pole.
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I must go shower now...after I have a cigarette.
CNC photos have that effect on me...
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As Mario stated, JeffP is using a highly modified stock intake and he is making lots of power.
That's a bit overcooking the statement. Mario said he extrude honed the manifold. That is correct. He extrude honed it.
It is not 'highly modified' unless you consider the stock AAR and EGR being blocked off with shiny plates.
The Extrude-Hone price is retail. If you show up in Paramount and talk with the guys you can get it done for half that price (same advice I gave JeffP, and why he did it).
For the Turbine Housing it's a nice finish, it gets casting flash out of the thing that you can't get to any other way. Diesel Places routinely do it because they find they can pick up 2-3%.
In any case, Extrude Honing is going to cost money and take time. A home port with some cartridge rolls is probably your best bet. You can pick up all the stuff you need at McFadden Dale Hardware in Corona or Anaheim (very close to the MSA Events when you are down here).
What I found nice for doing the quickest cleanup is appropriately sized flapper wheels on a long mandrel. It makes nice work of cleaning up the runnners, rather than enlarging them. I'd remove the bumps at the injector end from the hold-down bolts (use sealer on the bolts for S&G) and then concentrate on simply smoothing the runners of all casting flash.
With a long mandrel, you will be able to get a flapper wheel in from the back side (Head End) all the way to the plenum. The hardest thing to do is remove the damnable EGR bumps at the inlet of the runner on the plenum end. I have seen N/A plenums where people have used hole saws to cut access holes into the plenum and get to the inlet end of the runners. They then epoxy/weld the plugs back in, or use core plugs to seal it back up. No real need to cut the whole plenum off to access the runners.
But given the size of the runners will be likely quite a bit smaller than the ports Dave gave you, I would say concentrate on smoothing the walls more than trying to enlarge them, and use the 'step' at the head as an anti-reversion measure for anything that may happen during valve overlap events. It's a big step, and should be closer to 1mm, but if you try to enlarge those runners you're going to be in for a miserable time trying to get it right without cutting up the plenum. I don't think you can do it without cutting the plenum in some way...hence my concentration on simple smoothing and removing the bolt bumps that impede flow.
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As I always say, if they are freeze plugs, why is there one on the air side plenum of the intake manifold?
Core Plugs.
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Most of the stuff in front of the shock towers is there to attach cosmetics to, and not much else. Frankly, you could almost cut the front of the car off there and leave the engine hangind off the K-Member and the car wouldn't handle much differently if you have put a decent strut bar on there.
If the back of the car (strut towers to firewall, tower to tower, and tower to swaybar mount) is tied together well enough, that lower radiator section isn't that critical at all. Almost anything would do. I'd shy away from 'Fence Post' for the Zinc concerns mentioned above...but if the back end is tied together, then the boxing up front is not really that important.
Actually, if you look at some of the tube frame cars, radiator 'supports' would be an overgenerous term for what you will find...
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I was having the discussion about 'wunderplugs' with someone else earlier this week. My story relates to large industrial engines. I ran a generating station, and we would use 96 spark plugs every two weeks. That's as long as $1.59 Champion D15Y plugs would last. We bought them in lots of 1000 a couple of times a year. The closest we EVER got to a cost-competitive plug that actually did something was the Splitfire. Our fuel consumption went down around 50KSCFM per generator per day, we got much more uniform EGT's, and cylinder to cylinder pressure variations decreased to nil. Problem was t hey only lasted around 4 days due to center electrod erosion. They used an Autolite plug as the base, and would not change to a different center electrode. It was a great deal at only $5 a plug. We begged and begged them to try to get another center electrode because of the positive results.
Now...we had people from Stitt sell us some plugs. They were special 'wunderplugs' (mind you, when Splitfire heard that I ordered around 3000 plugs a year and wasn't quibbling about the cost of $5 a plug, they outright GAVE me 300 plugs to test FREE, as long as I shared testing data with them.) These Stitt Plugs were comparable in every way to the Champions. They lasted two weeks, roughly. Cylinder misfires were roughly the same, kinda 'bouncy' on the KW meter when running... But HEY! They were rebuildable so we could buy six sets or so, and rotate them through their 'cleaning and rebuilding program'...
Thing was, the Stitt spark plug as $400 EACH, and the 'bargian rebuild cost' was $100 EACH.
That's right, we paid $400 EACH for 'testing' of their plugs, and they didn't work any damn better than the $1.59 Champion D15Y's we had been using for 10 years at that point. What a deal eh?
It was sad the Splitfire people couldn't get a better electrode, with the cost of Natural Gas, 50KSCFM a day would add up! For only $5 a plug they actually had the best performing plug in our engines ever. Problem was they only lasted 4 to 5 days, and the maintenance downtime was too much to change them that often. If they could have made it to 10 days, we would have bought them and been their sales example for Natural Gas pumping stations/generators nationwide.
So when you see the next $25 'wunderplug'...just remember, it could be worse! You could be up a Stitt Creek without a paddle!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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That's an old Crown Conversion for a 240/260Z and the tubular adapter is prone to rust out as condensate collects there after shutdown... That was from the 70's.
HKS and SK made nice cast adapters for N/A Turbo applications as well that last much longer. Good luck finding one of them.
The Stock L28ET manifold will support 500HP without much internal modification at all. The stock EuroSpec Turbo Manifold is much larger internally and generally a better piece overall (the turbo flange area is already opened up for better flow, and the runners are larger than the 1 5/8" tubular headers one 'vendor' was selling! Good luck finding one of theose as well, they are NLA new.
Flanges for the conversion are hardly "rare" by any stretch of the imagination. With the stock turbo manifold supporting 400HP stock, and easily supporting 500HP in slighly cleaned up form the question begs 'why?'
That the heat is removed is slightly overstated as the rediant surface of the larger manifold will have some effect in that area. And the almost 180 degree turn to enter the turbine will not be the greatest flow-wise, either. The conversions on N/A's shown and spoken about in my post here all were low-boost and low-horsepower applications. They worked decently for what they were, but they were not 500HP setups by a long shot. And as far a making a turbo that sits on the bottom of the flange directly so as not to disturb the flow...maybe in a RHD, but not in a North American Spec car...I'm thinking the steetring shaft as well as other items would be an issue just knowing where the stock manifold exits.
Turbo should still be high enough to allow for good drainage in either case. They did fine on my Crown, and the SK EFI conversion (egads, that thing used resistors on pressure switches to enrich the mixture!)
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That setup Frank has posted is almost identical to what I had setup in my 240Z. Two of those pumps are Facet/Bendix Style low-pressure booster pumps that keep the swirl pot/surge tank full, with the EFI pump sucking from the bottom of it for the High-Pressure side of the equation. Nice thing about it is that the fuel is double filtered before it goes into the main pump-increasing it's longevity as well. The Facet/Bendix pumps usually have inlet filters in the bottom section of the pump, though you can order them without the filter as well. So first filter, then through the second filter, then into the main pump.
Puts ALL filtration on the LOW PRESSURE circuit, so that a clogged filter will be FAR less likely to cause a problem in High-Pressure Fuel Delivery. And given it's in the low-pressure side, it's unlikely the filter will ever get enough pressure behind it to blow out...and throw fibers down into the injector screens. (For instance...er, not saying this has happened to anybody in this thread...)
Frank, I keep telling him to get AAA Extended Towing, and remove that space-saver spare and build a Sjaack-Style Aluminum Tank for the Methanol Injection back there in the spare tire well...
Who cares if there's methanol in the passenger compartment, you can't see it when it burns anyway! LOL
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Yeah, I was waiting for the spectacular explosion as well.
Been there, done that. Nothing like watching a flywheel shatter and come flying out and stick in (or pass through) the ceiling!
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Where is the "cosmetic" console lid?
On cars later than 74. No lids on consoles pre-260Z.
I mean, 'cuffs and collars' don't match. claimed 31K miles...
Look at the engine bay inspection light and e-brake handle, as well as the console repair. I have seen several real low-mileage cars, and it just doesn't jibe that a car has a 'real' 31K on it, and has wear on these items.
I'm curious on production date as well. I have seen a 9/72 vehicle with some strange mismatched components, but not Weber DGV's, almost everyone kept those 72 SU's!
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"On a scale of 1-10, I'd give the interior a 7."
7?
Wow, I want some of you guys as judges at a National Level when I enter my ride for judging! That's generous!
Must be a 'regional' thing...LOL
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Greed is a sin, gawd will punish you for your pursuit of opulence.
If you crack a Moosehead and it's skunky...it's a sign!
LOL
Sandblasting gear?
in Body Kits & Paint
Posted
Whatever you do, use the right respirator (or as the man from Cinnci wisely suggested: supplied air respirator).
I got silicosis BAD just from using beach sand on my engine bay and a cheapie mask-type 'dust mask'... And I still get sand out the ventilation system at high speeds... 23 years later!
Good Luck!