Tony D

Any lead time on when the test would be conducted. My corporate HQ is just up the road in Davidson, and I'd really like to make it into the area for the test when the time comes. I'm pretty sure I know where that facility is, I spent a lot of time driving through Moorseville last time I was up there. Paypal forthcoming, see my latest post at the S30 Aero Thread as well for an at-speed photo on El Mirage. I just wish it was in the realm of possibility to drag our LSR car there to see what can be done. Wrong coast! LOL!

I'm going to cross post on this thread, as I addressed this same query at another forum... First, the compression. My statement at the other site was "did your mechanic do a proper compression test"? Well, this is a prime example of what I referred to: someone doing a calculation and coming up with a totally wrong conclusion. Warren is correct in his 100 minimum, 150 normal statement---first off it's out of the FSM which is final arbiter on conflicts like this, and because he reveals the problems of mechanics not knowing how to take a compression test. I stated in the other post "is that a one-pump number?" Well, the theoretical measurement people are touting here is a one pump reading! Yes, the compression ratio is 7.38:1, and ON THE FIRST PUMP AT SPEED, the gauge should come up to around 90 psi. But a compression test does not consist of only the initial compression pump! The first pump will tell you if there is any DRAMATIC issue with teh cylinder like a burnt valve, holed piston, etc. This is why it's critical that you use a screw-in compression tester, and obsaerve the way the pressure rises. Yes, the first pump will be around 90, but the second time that piston comes around to compression stroke, it should jump up further to at least 135, if not 150. And by the third pump it should stabilize or make the final rise to 150. Most good mechanics will then let it pump once or twice more to see what happens, but only if the compression is not rising. See, if the thing jumps to 100, then 150, and holds there. Then everything is hunky dory. If it takes three pumps to make 100psi, and doesn't rise to 150 by five pumps, the cylinder is tired, maybe a bad valve seal leaking...whatever, further diagnosis (like a leakdown test) will be required. If it cranks and cranks and takes a everything it has to get to 90 psi, chances are good there is a bad ring land. This is where the follow on "Wet Test" will confirm if it's bottom end, or top end. I have had Toyota 3C engines pump 60 after 10 pumps, and then on a wet test jump to 120psi in two pumps: classic worn ring scenario. On an L, if you don't get that compression right away, and it's taking five pumps to get to 90 psi, then there is something wrong. If it's there at one pump, and doesn't rise.... then there is also something wrong, just a different thing! The key is to watch and observe the test to see how the number is arrived at. If this guy is using a 'hold it in and push hard while cranking' compression tester...well that is about useless as they generally leak as much as they take in. If he's doing a "one pump" it's not a full diagnostic reading. Of all the threads NOBODY has asked what the "Wet Test" results were, and apparently the mechanic is condemning the engine WITHOUT doing a wet-test! My wife's 260 had 150-150-100-100-150-150 on a five pump style test. EXACT SAME RESULTS DRY AND WET. That told me the RINGS were FINE. There was (my assumption) a bad head gasket, though when I pulled it I saw no channelling. So quickly I examined the valves while the head was off, and found some debris on the #3 & 4 valve sealing faces. So a quick shot of lapping compound on all the exhaust valves, slap it together, and run it. Compression was up to spec across the board, so the next day I took it on a three week 18K mile run around the country with my son as co-pilot. Thing is, without a dry and wet test, and knowing the methodology around the test, everyone is guessing. No conclusions can be drawn form the numbers given, as IMO the WET TEST has to be done and results presented BEFORE a condemnation can be given. But back to the "theoretical compression"---yes, 7.38:1 will give you that compression on the first pump, but like an air compressor you will keep pumping against that deadhead and should gradually build, over several pumps, a peak pressure. This is why reciprocating industrial air compressors have relief vavles, they are positive displacement pumps, and it wil lkeep cramming air into a spac till it goes boom given proper inlet conditions. The thing is with a starter driven compression test, the dynamic filling of the cylinder can not be taken into effect because the engine is not turning fast enough to have ring sealing, valve overlap, etc, give you what you are really getting in the cylinder at idle speed. This is why the FSM gives you a number higher than "static" theoretical compression. This is what the FSM gives you, and is a direct result of testing on the engines when new. Basically one pump will not dynamically give you the proper reading regarding ring seating. There is more to it than that, as I have explained above. When aarang said 'or even knows how to use it properly???" I thought "at least someone else wonders about technical competence"---that is a big issue these days. Mechanical training is sorely lacking and like I said in the post elsewhere, old timers are set in their ways---and in many cases never received proper training in the first place. It's the old "I've always done it this way" argument---to which I will always reply: "If you screwed your sister for the last 20 years, that doesn't make it right!" Hope this helps out, and clears up some of the theoretical tangent. 90 psi is NOT a correct pressure. Warren is correct on that, 100%!

Here's the 2-Liter when it still had the TEC2 on it. Now it's EUC882 Driven, and the ECU was relocated to the dashboard inside. 205HP to the rear wheels at just a tad below 9000rpms. Everybody seems to like the "second photo"...LOL

This first image is of this S30, chopped and bespoilered running at El Mirage. This car, as pictured has a speed in the mid 160's at El Mirage, about 20mph faster than our G-Nosed 76 2+2 running in Production, using production bodywork. Oh, and we are running a 2-Liter, not a 6 liter.... This car replaced the former sheetmetal (a 1970 Opel GT) when it was flat spun and endoed six times at 140+mph. The brown car is how it first appeared, and the orange paint job is how the thing ended up when fully painted. Currently this car competes at both Bonneville and El Mirage dry lakes. I have some more photos of the spoiler if anyone is interested, or you can get the rest of them off my Car Domain Page---which is where I lifted these from. There is a page there with some photos of the Land Speed Car as well, from a few years ago when I had it in the yard for some work. Now that I have the page figured out (there was an image syntax snafu, and some pages couldn't be viewed...) I will start posting more photos there that I have taken in the past few years, just so people can compare stuff. BTW, this orange car is the one I have the video of running at 163 on the same day our 2-liter ran 141, the difference in dust off the back of the two cars is startling when viewed on video and not static. I think the "red baloon" image you can see he's popped his parachute and it's just about to deploy (look in the dust behind the car about 25-30 feet).

Not exactly "old" photos, but this car replaced the former sheetmetal (a 1970 Opel GT) when it was flat spun and endoed six times at 140+mph. The brown car is how it first appeared, and the orange paint job is how the thing ended up when fully painted. Currently this car competes at both Bonneville and El Mirage dry lakes.

Hey, I had some time, and here is one of the photos from my Cardomain page, I scanned this as well as some miscellaneous images from the "Yellow Book" as well as the JDM Fairlady Z Service Manual (regarding the S20 motor and cam drive) If you go there, you should be able to decipher the web addy from the properties of the photo I think--I know my profile at ZC.C has a link to the page as well... there is the "Camshaft Card" for the stock cams available in the JDM at the time. Here is one of the photos from the "Yellow Book" regarding the ZG Flare Placement, you can decipher they were running 8" rims up front, and 10" rims out back, so that gives you some guide: http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735451_69_full.jpg

I saw that photo and started laughing! I had green "city lights" in my car, and the Buena Park CA Police Department really didn't like it one bit. Long story, but they cited me for "illegal headlights" stating "it's for your protection sir, nobody will see you with green headlights"---this being beside the fact that the training officer made like an Owl and had his head pivot almost 180 degrees when he went through the intersection looking at my car sitting there... Anyway, I went to court, and it was thrown out as I explained the headlights were NOT green, the "city lights" went out when the main beam went on, and in the CVC (California Vehicle Code) they state clearly that the headlights may be any color when they are not on. This went to the definition of what "on" entails, and basically I brought out the point that the new Mercedes had an integrated running light with their new 300 series, making the "headlight orange" in the exact same way the cop defined my headlikghts as "Green". That, I think is what got it tossed. BUT, it also states in our vehicle code that NO lights projecting light to the front of the vehicle may be Red or Blue AT ANY TIME. Here, that can result in a vehicle impouondment as they have nicked ricers with blue and red strobes facing forward under "impersonation of a police vehicle" which is a big no-no! I would not run red or blue in any headlight beam, treading very close to a grey area that can go very wrong. But Green, that's cool with me! I gotta love anybody who has "Green Headlights" LOL Beating a cop with logic, in a court, without a lawyer...PRICELESS!

Just an FYI, the Harbor Freight bender is a knockoff of another popular bender... for the life of me I can't remember the brand, but "old and established" and that brand has the dies available for a lot of different sizes of piping that isn't supplied with the HF Unit. I have done this on other HF items as well, like Paint Guns. No secret it's a Devilbiss knockoff of Binks #7 knockoff. And having a lot of nozzles and parts for those, toswap onto the HF gun makes it act just like the "Name Brand" unit. I'm sure some searching will turn up which bender they knmocked off...though off-sized dies will probably run you as much as the HF unit is total cost! (I know you can buy the HF Knockoff I-R impact gun for $58, and the I-R Tune-Up kit with bearings, vanes, and air motor parts is $58...so the decision becomes use the old parts and just replace the burned out vanes...or get a whole "new" gun that lasts the same 6 months in Industrial Service....) I'm watching this thread now...the photos of the bends produced by the HF unit are interesting, answered a lot of my questions about this subject. Good Thread!

I'm just mentioning it for the same reason on our turbos... Eurospec Turbo Manifolds had expansion bellows on them, and didn't break the end studs like our US Spec units do... The Euro Header (NLA, of course!) is set up for more severe duty and more horsepower/flow out of the box than the US / JDM model.

Why? Price, we are a group of bottom feeding cheapskates, and cheap rules the day. Plus it works. Being cheap and working are usually mutually exclusive, so it's a neat combination of those two attributes when you find them in one product. But like Ron says, it just 'seems" like everybody is running Megasquirt. There are plenty of other systems out there (like he listed), all of which are on Z's. In the RX world, with the funky ingnition demands and funky fueling demands of the rotary, it takes systems designed around that... Megasquirt was difficult to get tuned on the rotary initially, and maybe that's why it didn't seem so popular from where you came from. I don't remember that many rotary guys on the old MS forums, but I'm sure there's a dedicated forum for them at msefi.com...just like there's a dedicated one here for the L-Engine swaps. Like Ron said, use what you are familiar with, there is a learning curve involved with any new system. If you know how to tune one already, that makes a second vehicle that much easier to tune. Same said for support locally.

"yeah right. We would just look at each other and smile." I'm just trying to prep those involved in the testing for their ONLY real satisfaction when it's all said and done. Like you mom'sZ said, when you know the score (and BJ's testing will certianly give people a place to point to as empirical evidence...) just simling polietly and nodding your head in agreement is about all you will end up doing when all is said and done. Like I said some time ago, if there are all these "basically stock" 140+mph S30's, I wonder why nobody ever made it out to Bonneville in the intervening years from 1975 till 1999 to break that standing record.... /Leans back and Smiles/

Nope, you use the later model style T/B WITHOUT an idle screw (at least I did on mine, I guess you COULD use one...) The Euro Cars have the external idle bypass screw, and their T/B's don't have that BCDD on the bottom of them. For the record, I am using the T/B from a 91 SR20DE.... It's 60mm. But yeah, by using the separate idle bypass screw, you are performing the same function as the AAC and the resultant mass of Magnet Valves, Vacuum hoses, etc.... It works just fine, you get about a 100rpm drop below idle speed on snap drop-throttle, but it raises right back up to idle speed immediately, just like the N/A does. The hose barb is used when you use the EXTERNAL bypass screw. What I did on mine was put a 1/4" barb on the J-Pipe, then it was run to the idle bypass valve from an 83 N/A car that was bolted to the side of the manifold (not integral in the T/B like on some earlier N/A's). I had taken the Idle Bypass Screw fittings out of it by heating it with a propane torch (the OEM hoses are something like 10mm I.D., which is far larger than you need) and then tapped the housing for 1/4" NPT and screwed in barbed fittings into it from the old OEM 50mm T/B (the water fittings). I ran the line from the Bypass Screw Housing to the former Cold Start Valve location where I had tapped and installed another 1/4" barb---but you could put that fitting anywhere in the plenum. So if you use a T/B with an integral Idle Bypass Screw, you don't need the J-Pipe Barb, External Bypass Screw, and hose routing. I actually do have photos at my Cardomain Page...at least I did. I will have to go look and report back...

Maybe that's what it was, read in miles and odo in miles, but speeds posted in KM/H! LOL

First, I don't know what "P-Contest" you are referring to, but if it's about 'stock top speed', with all due respect, that is a pipe dream. I don't know how many times I just smile when people tell me they have taken their open-mawed S30 to speeds as fast as our land speed car with an engine either stock, or "slightly modified" but "lowered with stiffer springs" as chassis mods. People have an innaccurate speedometer in front of them, and it said 145, so that is how fast they were going. I regularly go 110mph down the 91 Freeway Westbound between VanBuren and McKinley in morning rushour traffic when it's flowing.... I know better, and I know the speedo is off, but they see it "so it must be true" and for someone without a logical cell in their body, untrained in dispassionate scientific method, you will not convince them using logic. I have a good friend I have known for over 20 years. He is aware of my land speed efforts, yet STILL to this day actually thinks his 260Z 2+2 and DGV Weber Conversion did a sustained 145mph on I15 out to Vegas in a caravan of sportscars. It is simply ignorance, and if you think, if you actually think giving logical, empirical evidence on a plate with mashed potatoes and gravy to them will change their minds let me give you an engraved invitation to the most frustrating phrase on the face of the planet: "I know it doesn't make any sense, but that's what it did!" Welcome to my world... You will NOT stop the stupid, nor the ignorant from making these type of claims, nor sticking to their guns. All sticking to their guns in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary does is move them form the realm of the ignorant, to the realm of the stupid. Ignorance is the state of not knowing, Stupidity is the state of knowing, and refusing to acknowledge it. All any of this testing will do will give you the confidence to smile at their claims. That's it. Take a look at the Nissan graphs posted earlier, and notice the Exponential climb the horsepower absorption curve takes above 140mph. I have seen plenty of S30's with big blocks, small blocks, turbos, superchargers, Hillborn Injection, (you name it) hit that wall above 150mph. I look forward to their testing to see what kind of horsepower will be needed to push that brick to a speed of...say 170mph, on an unmodified and even front chinspoilered S30 body. I haven't seen many S30's with the original front end configuration go faster than 150mph. Turbo Six of V8 included... On another aside, BJ, would you be interested in some videos of various S30's at speed on the dry lake? I bought a video from the May Meet, and it has three of our runs (140+) on it, as well as a V-8 powered S30 with a chop-top and modern spoiler on the back, as well as a modified nose on it (160mph) running. You get a nice detail of the "Dust" off the back of the car. The difference between our G-Nose car without a rear spoiler, and the other car is interesting. PM me with some mailing information and I'll see what I can do about getting a DVD rip of the runs out to you.

I talked to jeff last night and touched on this, "Common Emitter Transistor" was the device. he says (greek to me) connecting one to the input, and the other to the common emitter output, with another to power and it should invert the voltage. I probably have that all wrong, but it makes sense from what I was thinking. You have power to one lead, a common output, and your signal to the third lead. The function of the device is to invert the signal, so +1 in could be configured with a "power supply in" (simple voltage regulating chip from +12VDC) of 5VDC, you would get that full 5VDC out the common emitter. By the time you get to 5VDC in on the signal end, you are down to 1VDC out the common output. This has been 20+ years since going through that class, but this should not be hard to configure at all. Two chips and some wire, and you could literally shrink-wrap the whole schebang with the wires coming out and be done with it. And not to be abrasive here, but the TEC3 is NOT the TEC2. They are WORLDS apart, developmentally. The TEC2 we used in the Bonneville car used a $300 UGEO sensor, and if we used anything else but the one supplied by Electramotive or their "value added dealer", it ran like crap, if at all. I totally understand why these guys want a work-around for the current generation of sensors. But the TEC3 is not a TEC2. Just like the TEC1 is in a world of it's own...

I have to agree, I was import guy in America, and then did apprenticeship time in Japan, so I'm 'all metric'... I'm constantly converting back and forth between metric and imperial measurements and back in conversationsto people...they think I stutter! LOL I loved my time in Liverpool earlier this year. The Engineers were driving around Escort Vans with MPH speedos, KM Odos, and the street signs in miles, but exit countdowns in meters. Oh, the hell the 'old timers' must have! At least you got rid of the shilling in the last 20 years! LOL I wish America would simply "go metric" and get with the rest of the world. I hate fractions. Decimals are so much easier.

I was informed that was a Janspeed car that ran frequently at Zandvoort. Maybe I should have my source look for those LY heads! LOL My wife was not pleased to hear my celphone ringing at this hour (on the night table next to the bed)... Why do I give my phone numbers to friends in Europe? LOL Looks like I may indeed be visiting in October. While I was stil lup, I just had to come back and listen to that video again. I love the gear upchanges... I may have to get a dog box for Bonneville. not that I need one, but just for the "cool factor"! LOL

On the ducting note Sven mentioned, in small experimental aircraft going speeds above 140knots, it's not uncommon to cool the engines by using two Chevy Impala Air Conditioning Cores! Their thicker core is inefficient at slow speeds, but when you have air pressure from 140 knots coming at you, and then realize you only need an opening of 2X3" to supply more than enough air you place them far back in the structure, and make a nice, long tapered duct. Imagine taking your 1X2 foot radiator opening, and run a 7 degree tapered line from all sides forward. Eventually they will meet, but the faster you go, the smaller you can make that opening and still get FULL COOLING from the core. Looking at the cutaways from the front end air-management ducting of the #83 Electromotive Car you can see they used thick cores with small frontal areas, and then tapered ducts for the smallest opening facing forward. Liberal use of NACA ducting as well... Oh, to be able to do these things legally at Bonneville! LOL

The small or large spoiler for the rear hatch cuts top speed. The small spoiler everyone likes cut 3 mph off our Bonneville car at El Mirage on the 1.3 mile course. We ran back to back runs, only difference being we took off the spoiler. Went 143mph, and on the previous run had only made 140. Back end was a little "light" without the downforce. I think there are better, more modern spoilers that can have better effect than the "Old School" BRE spoiler, which was designed to be used at speeds basically limited to below the 140 range... After removing the spoiler and having traction problems, adding 300# of concrete or lead shot in the spare tire well did the traction trick nicely. Adding that weight really helpde our acceleration (now how's that for a contraversial statement? LOL) The Xenon Urethane front spoiler will fold under at speed (around 125/130+mph) if left black, unpainted, in direct summer sunlight at 110F... When you run over your own spoiler and pick up speed, you begin to realize some of this stuff shouldn't be on a car... Doing a "shed the spoiler" routine on a rookie certification pass can be very embarrassing, both to you and the tech inspectors who let the thing on the track in the first place...LOL (Big hint for lovers of urethane front air dams: REINFORCE THE OUTER EDGE WITH A 1/4" ROD SKELETON!) Most of the stuff everybody wants to tack on to the car puts us out of the Production Class, so we haven't been able to play with much more. I have seen a lot of the front air dams on V-8 powered cars there. One guy glassed in the whole front of his car with a spoiler that made the front end look like a freakin' snowplow! He couldn't break 155, even with a 380 Chevy with dual quads on a tunnel ram... Our G-Nose and Bellypan does nicely, though I am looking forward to the chance to run the S130 chassis in years to come. Like the chart shows, that body starts where terminal "production" development of the S30 stops. We are hoping the S130 2+2 will let us bump the production speed record at Bonneville to at least 175, just above where our F/ALT record currently is (173.325), and in ALT trim with the S130 radiator blocked and full pan to break 180. And of course any development done on the N/A car will be used on the Turbo when we go F/PS. Lots of irons in the fire, just have to nail down some particulars and get the vehicles properly classified, and then go racing. After we kick that pesky Honda record out of the 2 Liter G/PRO Class!

The neat thing I didn't realize is how much more developed the Euro Turbo Cars were in underhood airflow management. The S130 Turbos in Europe got no A/C, and had a plastic duct from the front end that had a special spoiler,right to the bulkhead opening. No way for any stray air to hit the bulkhead, it ALL had to go THROUGH the radiator. But yeah, that's EXACTLY the page I was talking about! i must have the yarn testing in another book. I recall it shows "rollovers" and some water testing, mostly in B&W, if it's not in that book, then I'm going to have a heluva time finding THOSE since I was sure it was in there and hadn't catalogged it in my mind otherwise (oops!)

I can vouch the differentiation of the 432 Grilles. In the states the Fairlady grille was improperly referred to as the "432" grille by some Nissan Motorsports Employees, and when that particular model was exhausted, they stated the mesh grilles were "NLA". Then someone with a 72 Fairlady Z parts booklet suggested they look at any of the other part numbers for "Fairlady Grilles" to check availability. And "Viola" they "became available again". They had been selling one part number, and it's supply was exhausted. They were totally unaware that there were several different "Fairlady Grilles" available. Not just Early S30, but later S31 Grilles. This same type of situation occurred with radio block-off plates during the restoration programme where Nissan Employees ran out of one part number, and decided they were "NLA" while the radio block-off plate from the 720 pickup was the exact same part in a different box! Of course pointing this fact out to them, no matter how tactfully was not a welcome development. Like Alan said, they had different meshes, different gauge of sheetmetal rimming the mesh section, etc etc... They are almost universal fitment on the JDM S30's, and to early US Specification S30's. As they said about 260's-on in the USA "Some modifications may be required to fit to these models"... My latest acquired Fairlady (1975 Fairlady Z(S) 2/2) had a PO that decided it was a good idea to cut the grille up to fit fog lamps. Apparently unaware what those factory punched holes in the bottom of the front bumper were meant to hold...

I will vouch personally that this is the way they are installed in Japan, and in the instructions that came in the old "Yellow Book" for competition prep in Japan---maybe Alan can add something about that. The parting line at the top of the wheel well between the wheelwell's inner and outer arches is where they come straight out to the body line, and the arches basically make what formerly was both the outer wheel well arch and the quarter panel extension---making in effect a "tubbed" wheelwell with the FRP extension being nothing more than a vestigial lip to cover the outermost portions of the tire combination. The tire/wheel combo of a 14X10" Watanabe (forget tyre size) running a Dunlop racing slick will take full suspension compression without rubbing on anything, and they will tuck inside the ZG Flare in such a state. I think I may have some Xeroxed Pages from the old "Yellow Book" that shows installation details (er... hand drawn in Japanese...) I could dig them up from storage if needed to put it all to rest.

"To compare that with cart-sprung, ladder-chassised products from Europe - produced in countries effectively still recovering from wartime devastation even into the 1960s - is fairly pointless I think." I might add that Japan was still stinging from the occupation at that same time. They didn't exactly come through the war unscathed... Had the island-jumping campaign taken the next step from Okinawa to the southern islands Japan would have looked like Eastern Germany did in the 1960's...and that would be generous given what happened during the Okinawa Campaign. In either case, it wasn't the design so much as someone's latching on to tradition and "the way things are done" that did in their efforts. The British Automotive Establishment could have modernised just as the Japanese did after the war. They chose not to, and paid a dear price as the Japanese put product out that redefined sectors insted of simply trying to perpetuate them. With the recent goings on in the Automotive world, the companies truly left unscathed by the War are now in their death throes. Chrysler is part of a German Company. GM is about to be overtaken by Toyota as "#1", and Ford just put it's finance company in hock as collateral for loand to keep operations going... Sad thing is the "big three" watched, and didn't learn a damn thing. They refused to modernise for years, and though Institutional Inertia and sheer Glacial Size took this long to come to loggerheads with their inevitable fate... /Rant Mode Off/ I lament the loss of a 'car with a soul'... I digress. Great thread!

I have a NordskogZ in the back yard! When I picked it up, I got the original invoice, and conversion manual. neat stuff, same brochure and promotionals you show here. Mine even has a California BAR certification label in the doorjamb showing the legality of the engine swap! Man, how did I miss this thread for so long!?!?!? LOL

I wish I had photos of my car from the PO. In 1981 he had Porsche 930 flares added to a 73 240Z, and used the headlight mechanisims from a Corvette to make Pop-Up headlights in the hood, and glassed over the stock headlight (lens covers). He was running 14X13's in the back, and 14X10's in the front. Neat JDM wheels, gold centered. Running something like 295/575R-14 Dunlop Slicks on the back, and 265's up front. When I got the car he hood and glass covers were gone. And the largest wheels I could find were 14X12 Watanabes. They sit in storage waiting to find some unobtainable 14" slicks.... I, too, lament trashing my set of Hayashi Racing Wheels. Had a set...3 of 4 and it was moving time... So to the scrap yard they went. Saw them recently being sold in pairs on Japanese Websites for disgusting prices.