Tony D

Wander onto the wrong side of the street, and look at what you find!!! Andy's car had at any one dyno session between 280 and 320HP to the rear wheels, the one and only time it was run at a 1/4 mile track it had a severely traction limited 13.08 at 108, with a noticable 3 second stutter session in the second third shift till the cam came back on and the tires were spinning through the traps. This was with street radials, with a 3.36 rear gearing, and a (shudder to remember this) a Predator Carburettor on an old four-barrel manifold. It picked up much more HP when we went to 45 Webers (25hp at 7500) and more again when we went to TWM TB's (over 300 hp and picking up 40hp over the webers at 8500rpm....) ANYWAY the question was aerodynamics. Stock, the S30 unmodified runs like .465 as stated above with a cd of 22 sq ft. In total G-Nose, headlight covers, underpanned to the rear of the tranny with the Nissan OEM pan (PZR) and with a rake of 2-3" (I forget which) the cars drag coefficient is around .38. I have talked till I am blue in the face about this topic, and people who discard the OEM answer of the G-Nose to improving aerodynamics are fighting a loosing battle! Our experience in 1.3mile racing was that the car, in the Predator Carb version lost 3mph when the "Small" BRE style spoiler was on the back of the car. It was more stable from traction, but was slower. We made a run in the morning, and went 140mph. On our second run of the day, with a temperature that had risen almost 30 degrees, and no tailwind, we went 143mph---so this is actually an underestimation of the drag effects of that "traditional" spoiler on the back. Like JohnC is investigating, using an alternate wing configuration with modern design will be far more effective---if you want something that WORKS, go with the new tech. If you want ricerbling nostalgia, go with the old drag adds stability and traction old-school FRP pieces. So with the G-Nose and underpan smooting airflow, along with a rake to prevent air from getting under the car in the first place you can get a considerable, significant decrease in Cd with the aforementioned mods. These numbers are also verifiable with some of the NIssan Literature that is out there. Anyway, those are the numbers for the mods being discussed, and some other information. As for the record being "only" 150mph....rent a copy of "World's Fastest Indian" starring Anthony Hopkins, put up your money, and see how easy it is... BTW, the car ultimately went 173mph and change, and that was with .080" scores in the cylinder walls from the pressed-in piston pins walking over and making contact... Everyone said "never seen that happen before..." With good sealing bores, the car should pick up the less than 2mph needed to qualify for the "long track" at Bonneville, and then we can gear up further, and hold the throttle open for five miles instead of three. If you think your car can stand staying within 50rpm of redline for six to ten miles, give it a shot! It's a different experience. Kind of like making a single point load run on a Mustang Dyno for two minutes 50 rpm below redline... I'll go see Norm race next Thursday, and maybe give him some pointers in person then! LOL

That is a Turbo Tom's system, and is typical of old-school draw-through technology. For what they are, they work well enough. But what exactly do you mean by "Boost Will Be Limited"? I ran 20psi on mine (Crown Setup, basically the same thing), and that setup will easily get a full bodied ZX into the low 11's! hardly "Limited". The fuel in the turbo acts like anti-detonant, and over 17psi most people simply injected water, or alcohol, allowing almost unlimited boost---limited more by the turbo configuration than the heat issue. Anti-Detonant injection is well documented in it's effectiveness, you just need to inject enough to change state to remove the heat of compression. It's not an intercooler, and many pooh-pooh it, but it works. As for most performance, these setups were in the 9's almost 30 years ago in Z-Cars in Japan. Those cars ruled. The EFI revolution is what made current aftercooling effective for the masses...

TimZ, you beat me to it! Working for Atlas Copco Compressors, that particular fact was drummed inot our heads repeatedly as in screw compressors, .2psi WILL be the difference between a compressor that runs, and one that is shutting down on compressor stage outlet high temperature...

Oh, now that is the best argument for putting your wires inside the frame rails ever! I have seen that trick on show cars, and it really cleans up the engine bay----but that is a great shield. i also second the comment about the anti-static straps from the rearend on cars on three different continents. Also, fuel tankers use a static strap (as well as other flammable liquid transport trucks), so assuming you were at home, grounding your vehicle to a proper ground rod is totally possible. Using a retracting static reel (available at trucking supply stores catering to that clientelle) and clamp on ground rod, you could drive away and it would automatically retract ! Shielding on the go would be much more difficult---I don't know how effective at dissipation those axle-straps are at transmission of currents.

When I do that, (sometimes) the MS goes to a runaway spark situation, and the injectors fire at the frequency of the pulsed DC from the Battery Charger! Nasty! Amusing for others to watch, but really frustrating!

Klotz? Now there is a name from the past! Next, let's fire up the Rupp, and go to the races! (I used Klotz in my Rupp 600 Nitro running methanol for hillclimbs and 100yd sprints!)

one would question why use an L28 system when the L24 system from the Maxima is calibrated for the engine size more precisely? The Maxima also puts the ECU under the passenger's seat, which gives you a nice, long harness with which to hack and move around if need be. Sure MS is programmable, but the fact remains there is a properly calibrated L24 system out there already, no fiddling required other than mounting componentry...

Oh, wow... Now the thing up in my rafters is identified. Alan, where in the world did you get those braces? I had put the bar up against the weldnuts in my "Mystery Car" back in Japan, and figured something was missing---those brace plates are it! The side brackets seemed to fit fine, but the gap to the wheel well just didn't make much sense. I see they are sitting on some prints...any chance of getting those prints so I can properly fab up this part? One step closer to fabricating my 71 into something that looks like a Rally Car..... HORROR STORY: Because I was remiss in securing my "Factory Wroks Bar" a gent came along and used one mf my rear uprights (that go to the rear floor area) as an "adjustable brace" in his project---drilled many holes through-and-through so he could slide another tube inside it and brace it with bolts. I still have the tubing....with all his added "Lightening Holes", I guess one day I will have to match that tubing for an installation....

The RHD and LHD versions (just like the S30, S130, ....) have the handbrake on the same side. Short of going the Line-Lock method (not technically street legal as an "emergency brake"), the fabrication of moving the transfer bar from the tunnel right to left should be pretty straightforward. Would take some welding on the handbrake lever, and some elementary cutting of the tunnel to let the bar though, but it's under cover anyway so nobody would know/see the modifications. I know I for one would notice the brake handle moved to the other side, especially if it were functional! On an aside, the line lock is a nice anti-theft item if you have the locking swtich. Short of someone with skates and a tow truck of some sort, it doesn't move! Oh, this is for the use of the S30 E-Brake under-car components. What brake handle you choose to put on the crossbar through the tunnel is up to you---I would probably go with the SX unit as it would match, the "ratchet" mechanisim is a bit smoother as well... Basically you use the stuff insdie the tunnel from the S30, and mate it with a stubshaft to the external to the tunnel 240SX stuff. The ratchet mechanisim may need some massaging and swapping between the two to make it totally functional.

"In the olden times" injection was done at the inlet to the turbo, so that the heat of compression would cause a state change of the anti-detonant, taking heat out of the discharge airstream. In this case, unless the BOV had sufficient JT-Effect to cool the air to condenstaion point of the vaporized anti-detonant, it would stay in state and not drop out in liquid form. Methanol may give a vapor smell in that case. Water, simply made for humidity---the R/H raising causing a less dense air mix, but the cooling effect compensating for it somewhat... This was discussed previously I won't go into that here. As stated, routing the BOV back into the inlet of the turbine may not make for "the neat killer sound" but it can help prespin the impeller, and keep it up to speed for improved on-boost response---and eliminating the "external venting" issues of a flammable anti-detonant possibly being entrained in the discharge air. Even it only operates on-boost, there is a lag between injection start, injection stop, and anti-detonant/air mix travelling through the piping. The argument can be made that the anti-detonant/air mix will be discharged initially on lift-throttle because that air is boosted, and the injector should not have any appreciable on-boost lag before injection events commence. I don't know if that last one made any sense, but the air in the tubing that the BOV discharges should have anti-detonant in it, unless there is some threshold boost level where it isn't injecting. After that point, it will have anti-detonant in it. Which is a good argument for a recycled BOV line... Given the cutoff criteria for the injector, it is possible with the setup shown could give a fairly "clean" blowoff. It all depends on the sophistication of the controller and it's ability to shut off the injector at a boost level or rate of throttle position change so as to stop anti-detonant injecton BEFORE the BOV lifts it's seat. But with a vacuum-referenced BOV, that response time is lightining quick, any lift-throttle will cause it to vent pressure. My best take is that if you sampled closely you probably would find traces of anti-detonant in the discharged air unless the tuning of the Methanol Controller was very tightly controlled! I would question why there, and not at the inlet of the compressor as "in the olden times"---what's changed, or what is the advantage of doing it there, as opposed to the inlet of the compressor. Is this an "erosion of the compressor wheel" concern?

Yes, I believe I had a hand in Corrupting Frank with his time in "The Blue Turd" Which, true to form has been parked in the driveway since MSA, and hasn't moved an inch! It rests all year till it's time to go out and have the living hell beat out of it again! And guys worry about "may car sat for three months over winter, what should I check before driving it again?" BAH! Run it, beat it, if we break it, we'll fix it! Frank should start a tour group for the Z-ZX Club to come to MSA and bring another contingent of "Belgians" to the MSA event again in 2007!

Xander Sez: "Have we met??? " "Getting cards and letters from people I don't even know... And offers coming over the phone!"

Usually a little silve solenoid sticking out form under the air cleaner, screwed into the side of the carburettor. It should "click" when you turn the key on and off. Another symptom of a failed idle cutoff is the you have to idle the car waaay up in rpm (like to 1500+ to keep it running, as the thing won't idle at all without you hitting the gas to keep it running. They both go hand in hand, usually you won't get one without the other, sooo..... Like said above, if you have timing advanced too far for the fuel that you are running it can run-on afterwards as well. Same for if you are percolating in the carburettor, and bubbling gas down the carb throat after shutdown... (running hot) Best thing to di is strike the air cleaner and observe what you see after a shutdown and go from there. If you aren't seeing fumes, pukeover, or etc, it can probably eliminate a fuel issue. Man, I gotta get going to work. BAH! Good Luck!

Check to see if the carburettor has an idle cutoff solenoid. It should shut the fuel passage in the idle circuit when you key-off. This keeps it from doing those dieseling things. VW Used them since the late 60's, and it really made a difference when you ran cheap gas!

"The big annoying thing about EGR is that when it malfunctions (e.g. carbon clogging), it causes serious drivability issues, namely low RPM bucking." So that would be a "No Vote" in my book, as by blocking the plates, you should simulate the exact same thing as a plugged EGR Riser... Hence my allusion to the "Stock ECU Calibrated for the EGR" To decrease NOx without EGR, all other things being equal, run 15%+ ethanol. It drastically decreases the NOx content of the tailpipe gasses, but also decreases fuel mileage...

HAM I'll second that comment. Mmmmmm, HAM....gaaarrrrgh!

I wouldn't reuse it, maybe stick it in the "club travel box" for an emergency spare, but a new one is less than $100, so why bother with reusing/repairing it?

I guess the main question, wojo, is what do you expect to gain by removing it? That will determine if the time and expense expended by deleting it is worth it. If you have a stock ECU (er, calibrated to take the EGR into account), & Stock Intake, I would say "NO, leave it on, it's not hurting anything"... Now, if you have a recalibrated EFI system from Europe ready to supplant it, then yeah, pick up the 20 extra HP the Eurospec Turbos have, but you also need the .82AR exhaust housing, to remove the cat, the pneumatic retard distributor, and all associated blockoff plates for the EGR and the AAC... Thinking you don't have any of those....

Yes, Xander does have a nice WBO2 setup. Then again, give Xander some assistance, last time I stopped by, he had the rollers for that DIY Dyno in his shop. THAT is a dedicated enthusiast. Though I suspect with the "new arrival" at home, Xander's Automotive Activities will be somewhat curtailed. If you are seeing oil spots on your back end, something in the shaft seal area has likely wallowed out, and that usually comes from the shaft oscillating wildly (imbalance) normally because it rubbed the housing. Pull the piping and check the nose of the compressor wheel for play, both axial and radial. If it's slopping around, it's done. Was that blue 260 2+2 in Frank's Barn the one you are talking about? Strange, small world, eh?

Yes Tim, the fuel pressure at "0" manifold vacuum would indeed be a pressure-referenced 12psi in the inlet fuel line. BUT... When you go WOT, the fuel level in the float bowls will DROP precipitously anyway, admitting fuel at an alarming rate. This is why the manifold referenced Cagle gave more power than other regulation methods. The normal fuel system would simply maintain 3-4psi at WOT, and fill the carbs as usual. A Cagle-Equipped vehicle would act like an early 240Z, as you hit WOT, the fuel pressure raised, pumping in fuel MUCH faster than it normally would, keeping the float bowl level more consistent, if not a bit higher than normal. It was not uncommon in a Cagle-Equipped vehicle to drop one or two jet sizes because the float bowl level did NOT drop under WOT, and this led to better off-WOT fuel economy as well. As SOON as you lifted the throttle in the least bit, that fuel pressure is CUT drastically, and the float bowl needles seat positively. The early 240Z worked similarly with a fixed orifice (very misunderstood!) tHE FLOW of the fuel pump went up with engine speed. At idle the thing would run 3psi. At 6500rpm, the restriction in the return line would make that extra volume from the stock mechanical pump turn to pressure (7+psi at that speed), and the pressure differential across the needle and seats in the SU's would increase. Basically you dumped twice as much fuel into the bowls as you could at idle, and this is how they got away with those small SU float bowls.... But this digresses... The second thing to consider in the blowthrough fue lregulation on a carburetted car (and it was touched on earlier in this post) is the differential between plenum pressure and float bowl pressure. Hopefully you see how the fuel pressure will be 12psi, and how that helps with keeping jet sizes smaller. Now, if you restrict the flow of boost to the throat of the carburettor versus what goes into the float bowl (we are talking fractions of an inch of water) by using a device called a "modulator ring" you end up stepping down a few more jet sizes because this differential RAISES the float bolw fuel level by keeping plenum pressure on the petrol in the float bowl, while the throat is running through the modulator ring at a slightly less pressure. This raised level allows the on-boost characteristic become slightly richer WITHOUT using a larger jet in the main well. Dellorto had Turbo Emulsion Tubes that also helped with this (OEM Maserati Bi-Turbo Carb). By using the modulator rings, you raise the fuel level in the main jet well, making it easier for the fuel to get into the throat. in extreme cases you can actually pump fuel from the float bowl up high enough to spray it through the orifices straight into the carb throat. Usually modulator rings are sized very closely to the size of the main venturis in the carb throats. This means that under N/A operation, the rings had no effect on fuel level, but when under boost the whole throat bacame slightly depressed pressure-wise and the fuel level in the jetwells raised. hks took a different approach in their surge tank, by using a calibrated orifice in the upper plenum. Boost first entered an upper plenum that was vented to the float bowls, and then went through three orifices cast into the box to the lower plenum that was where the main throats were. This allowed yo uto immediately enrichen the fuel mix because the float bowl was pressurized slightly before the main carb throat, and then the differential between upper and lower plenum was maintained throughout the on-boost operation. As well as Corky Bell's Cartech stuff was, this was not in their plenum, and is why transitional periods on the old Cartech Plenums always had a slight lean pop at low loads (if they were jetted for any sort of economy.) I found that I could run main jets in some cases FIVE STEPS smaller when using an HKS Plenum (or SK Plenum as well, similar design but different engineering) than when running the "simple box plenum" like Cartech cast, or that most people make out of 2X4 Aluminum Extrusion. Outside of the VW Scene, I find almost nobody knows of Modulator Rings. They all look at me like I'm crazy. The difference in driving an HKS Surge-Tanked Blowthrough and a Cartech Blowthrough was like night and day on part-throttle cruise! But to repeat: BUT EFI IS EVEN BETTER!!!

Well, I think the MS is the easiest thing to shield. Nice lead container around the box should suffice, and won't add that much total weight. it's the "veins and arteries" running all over the car that will prove to be the sticking point. Sensors on the engine, the Starter, the Coil, etc. Shielding THOSE will be just as important as the MS box itself. "Weak Link in the Chain" scenario. Shielding one major component will not be enough, the entire vehicle's harness and ancillary systems would have to be shielded. This would tend to make older vehicles with mechanical accessories the best canidates. A 1954 VW Beetle for instance. Mechanical Gasoline Level Gauge, Mechanical Speedo, and most of the electrical componentry on the thing concentrated in small areas easily covered with shielding boxes in the front and rear of the vehicle. Newer vehicles like a Z-Car would be a nightmare to adequately shield, but I believe on an early Bug, or earlier American Vehicle with very few power accessories it could be accomplished with some effort. The larger the vehicle, the larger the fuel it could carry onboard. Ideally, though, as stated earlier, a Diesel would probably be a better choice. Multi-fuel Capable Diesel ideally. A small hand driven pump and a 25 foot siphon hose would allow you to tap the bottoms of storage tanks at abandoned service stations, and to siphon out of "Bulk Oil" tanks at oil change businesses. But I think I am revealing toooooo much of my idle "road time brain wanderings" and will probably start making people uncomfortable if I go much further down this path... LOL

That is about dead right on for a Eurospec ZXT. The Euro ZXT had 20HP more than US-Spec vehicles, with no EGR, No Catalyst, No AAC, No ECCS (Straightforward EFI ECU!) and simple pneumatic retard on the distributor. You didn't get the ZXT from Frank Poll over in Utrecht, did you? Seems he is "the source" for the Z-Parts in the Netherlands (he should be, he shipped a container of them there from my back yard! LOL) You are in the ballpark for where you should be at both boost levels from what I can see, peakwise. There should be a littel more poop on the top end, but that may be due to EFI issues, and not boost. You hit the nail on the head, get a WBO2 meter, and start checking further. Your torque looks to hold right to 5500, so that is par for the course, time to upshift... Have fun, and don't fly into any canals this winter! I will have to look you up next trip to Utrecht/Amsterdam! Dutch Z-Car enthusiasts that actually do the work on their own cars are definately worth finding...

I got to ask what is a "Decent Price" if "nobody will pay $500+ for a pan like this"... For a custom cast pan, $500 would be a KILLER price, IMO. What kind of price range are you saying would be "decent"? An Aviad or other custom fabricated sheetmetal pan easily has 10 hours of labor in it, and if you can find a decent fabricator for under $50 and hour you are a fortunate person indeed! LordZ, thanks for that tidbit on the AZZC work on the R230, that is an interesting little ditty. I should have stopped by while I was in Phoenix this past week. That R230 is of interest to me for some projects in the work.

Yeah, it is a bit obscure, but shielding is shielding, right? Taking it to an extreme, EMP-Proofing something would pretty much have to make it impervious to a coiled CB Antenna Lead stuffed under the dashboard next to the ecu, right? (Terrible story there... Guy key his mike, and when he does car stumbles... Talk about a diagnostic nightmare....)

"Now... I'm a pretty patient guy. I've been working my megasquirt issues the best I can for quite some time (about a year) and haven't really gotten to drive my car in over a year. " Tim, I feel your pain. No time to devote to the quirks, and have helped countless others get their systems running flawlessly. Afraid to reprogram my final third box to MS-S(E) and stick it in there because if it doesn't solve it, then I'm SOL bigtime.... So I will install JeffP's super-filtered alternator and try one more time, but I hold no great hopes. I feel your pain. Man, do I feel it!