Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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Don't waste your time with the MSD. Go straight to MS-n-S and run it just like the stock system did. It's an unrequired extra step that costs a lot of money.
WIth the Moby Sticky Values, you have a decent, safe spark curve to start with, and you can concentrate on tuning fuel until you get that down, then start playing with the timing map, but don't expect to change much!
I think the MSD is unnecessary, especially since the MS-n-S is fairly straightforward in it's application to both the CAS units found on the L28.
You go with an MSD box, and start with an L28ET, unless you have an 81 model, you will be pulling the front cover and swapping distributor drives to run a convention distributor you have to modify.... Why go through all the hassle, only to swap back later? Doesn't make any sense at all to me...
Unless you only have an N/A engine to start with. Then it's a simple matter of swapping in an 81 Dizzy and bolting on the front pulley and CAS later to convert to MS-n-S with a tru Crank Trigger Unit...
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right!
The only thing you get for the mix is slightly less fuel economy due to lower heating value of the Ethanol.
It sounds cool having a 13:1 street engine, but my bus was a bear to start when it got below 40 degrees. And getting 5mpg on a 1950cc VW Type 1 engine does not lend itself to long trips with a 10 gallon fuel tank! LOL
This is why you get a blend. I am just too lazy to do the math myself, but it works out that they can use sub regular or something like that and still get 93 octane. Sub Regular. I like that: 84 Octane, available in Michigan at Sunocos.... I mean, what's that" Lawnmower gas? LOL
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I suppose I should actually get this version running correctly before swapping, but the draw for feature creep putting me over my head even further is irresistible...
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All it means is that if you want to use the MS-n-S EXTRA code, you will have to order the unmodified box, and then installe the jumpers yourself to enable the features you want.
Apparently the MS-n-S is not being loaded by them as they see the Extra as the way most people will go.
You may still be able to get the MS-n-S Download from the Yahoo site Magnus set up---where all of us origianlly got it.
I just went to the http://www.msefi.com site, and checked out the MS-n-S Extra forum post, and looked it over. Doesn't look that bad to make the hardware changes. I will probably go to Extra since it will possibly allow me to reconnect that stock Nissan Knock Sensor into the circuit, and allow for some other features that looked interesting, but weren't really "necessary" to my application, but would help with making is into a monster (here we go with another car 'for the wife' that ends up being 350+hp and a bit hard-edged for her... bummer!)
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Do your math!
The ETHANOL is 110 octane. Mix 10% ethanol with lower octane base stock by volume and you RAISE the octane of the base-stock!
Similarly mixing 87 and 92 in your tank to make your own "mid grade" for about 5 cents a gallon cheaper than the station charges (and usually with 1 octane point better to boot!)
Anyway, Ethanol adds octane so they can use cheaper base stock for the "high test" while at the same time having the same terminal octane, and meeting federal oxygenated fuels requirements!
Trust me, you do NOT want to try to run straight ethanol in 20 degree weather! It does NOT like to atmoize in a carburettor! This is why the higher percentage blends of alcohol are now becoming popular. With fuel injection almost universal on the consumer market now, the drivability issues with more alcohol are easily "programmed" around. When it was only carbies out there, and only the VW Type 3 had EFI in the USA it was a different matter, I assure you! :^)
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Oh maaaaan!
This thread comes up, and I got a nice Nikon camera now. Unfortunately that turbo took a dump, and another is on it now with no water cooled center section. When I reinstall a water cooled center section, I will post them to my cardomain site.
That thing turned red hot, and I found brazing material around the turbine housing. HOT HOT HOT! (Don't EVEN ask---it was my own stupidity, but succife to say floorboarding it to show you can do 12psi launches using retarded timing is really really really hard on your turbo!!!)
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I used two Water Temperature Sensors for Datsun, and simply altered the tables using ET4D utility like mentioned in the Megasquirt Sticky from Moby.
I installed the seecond temp sensor behind the throttle body inline with the throttle shaft so it's not impeding airfolw anymore than the TB shaft is. The spacer for the SX TB is a great place to mount stuff like that. I would have mounted it in the cold start injector position, but that's where the idle speed control air bypasses the throttle body now... he he he
I second what Moby said, save to mention he has a sticky that details it all pretty well thanks to contributions from those of us experimenting with the system on our cars.
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I can hook you up with an impound yard in the area you plan to settle in if that's accurate.
You can get a towed ZX for around $200, and scavenge what you need from it.
Same yard where I got most of the junk in the back yard now.
A lightened flywheel will not cause a fail unless there is something else severely wrong.
Mine has passed several times with a lightened (and super light actually) flywheel.
One has a 13#, another has an 8#. Though the 8# car has to be in top tune, and the tech has to nuderstand the car reacts VERY quickly to throttle inputs (4.11 gearset!)
My bud in Phoenix didn't tell the smog meatheads that during his test, and they jumpped his car right off the rollers into the dyno fan!
I told him "get them to fix your hood" but he pussed out...
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You know how I gobbered up my relay board with jumpers to make it all nice with the MS-N-S install. I will have to see how the jumpers need to be configured before I make any decisions.
I have been away from the country most of the last 6 months, and sadly the red car languishes in neglect, half finished. I did charge the battery this afternoon though~!
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That's actually a bit on the anemic side as Busa motors go!
Rick Yaccouci mad e over 450 from his 1000cc Busa motor, and 619 with a 1350cc!
At 10500, utilizing a Megasquirt fueling system.,
He used it to record several Land Speed Records.
His main page is http://www.turborick.com, but for the life of me, I can not find his dyno charts there anymore, and most of his land speed stuff is well hidden now, including his 300+mph run at Bonneville two years ago. It was a nice WMV---definately a "carnk it up" moment on the ole laptop!
As for stregnth of the parts, On Rick's first pass at Bonneville, he stripped the teeth off the drive chain sprocket.
On the next run, the 1350 sheared the output flange off the crankshaft....
So he installed the "lower powered" 1000CC engine, and ran 245 or something like that.
At the next outing, the 600+ hP{ unit was back in the "red dart" and he broke 311 on a two-way average.
Funny thing was had he not sheared on the one run, his speed was well over 325 at the time, and by not making a return run under power, he lost out to having "fast time" of the meet. Which went to a V8 powered Streamliner with far more money and horsepower than I can comprehend, but only a 299 mph top speed!
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Smog Techs sometimes don't know the first thing about the vehicles they are working on---especially when it comes to older cars.
If they have even the slightest tinge of doubt, they will fail you and send you to a referee. Then they look even closer because if they pass a car that has been altered, and is a ringer from the BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) sent out to trick them for even an honest mistake, they get NAILED with loss of their liveleyhood (revocation of Smog License) and a hefty fine!
You keep referring to "Aftermarket EFI" as if this whole charade is about actually CLEANING the air. It is NOT! Unless you can very carefully totally conceal the aftermarket ECU, and make it look TOTALLY BONE STOCK no matter how clean you run, you STILL FAIL!!!!!!!
Actual functional efficiency is beside the point in this pointless charade here in the Golden State. (They call it "Golden" because that's the color of bread, and Bread most accurately relates the condition of the legislators that promulgate these rules: "Half or Fully BAKED!) What they want is old cars off the road, and if they had their way, you wouldbe buying latest technology every 7 years. Regardless of your cost. Hey! THEY don't have to worry about what it costs---they can simply raise more taxes...
It's a sad disconnect between reality and the people on the hill in Sac'to...
If you get lucky, and it pipes clean and the EGR vavle opens like it should and it passes the functional tests without attracting any attention to it, you are golden.
But if you open you mouth and start saying "I did this and this and this..." you are only ASKING for trouble.
I don't know if the BAR Computer verifies the VIN as to Turbo or not. I should be able to, and tell the smog tech that you have a non-stock engine in there when they see the turbo.
What I would suggest is that you make the car as close to stock and stock looking as you can---using all the ZXT parts. Keep it registered as long as you can where you are currently unitl you are READY to do the test, or get busted and have to license in CA... If you are in LA, I have several ZXT's you can scrounge from, they are only parts donors for me! Get it looking sotck, and then keep your mouth SHUT, and take it to a Smog Station for a "PRE TEST" If it passes, and the Smog Tech will (HAS TO) tell you if it's going to pass. Then pay the money for the pre-test, have him run it through the test again officially, get the certificate receipt (they send that electronically to Sac'to) and THEN start the registration on your vehicle like you drove there YESTERDAY.
This way, you will know ahead of time if you will pass or if you will have to go to a referee station. If you do, no biggie, there is some "engine swap" paperwork you will have to do---as long as you pass their visual and functional testings, they will re-issue a sticker for your door, that says you should be tested as an 81 ZXT, and you're through.
It was (in the old days) easier to get a 73 Z with an LS6 454 Corvette Engine in it smogged than it was with a functioning 71 L24 in it! Once you get the BAR sitcker for engine change, you will be set from there on it.
Like I said, if they catch it, you have a hassle and paperwork, and no way around it. Not a biggie, just more flaming hoops to jump through.
If they don't, you then have the argument that "it passed the last time and nobody said anything about it!" argument. Your saving grace is you have an 81, and the turbo was available that year---so you may slide through un-noticed.
Keep your fingers crossed.
Look me up when you get here---I would welcome someone cleaning out some of this ZX trash from my back yard (so would the wife!)LOL
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The heater return goes to the same spigot the lower radiator hose attaches to. There should be a fitting on there to make the ehater work again.
BEWARE! Do not simply loop the head line to the inlet tothe lower radiator hose. As obvious as this sounds I see it all the time when a heater core fails, and then people wonder why they have "overheating" problems: they have created a 5/8" direct shunt around the radiator! You only need the 8mm recirculation line from the carbs for proper block preheating before the thermostat open up---using that head line is a good way to do it if you don't want to deal with a bypass line around the front of the head c luttering things up there.
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Zhadman, if you are indeed in Ontario CA, let me know when you need the help. I know of someone within an hour drive of you (Carson CA) that has this very swap already accomplished, and know of many local sources in the LA area that already have gone through the ringer on this particular conversion and can help you out!
E-Mail me and I can send you some photos of his conversion, now that they are on this laptop. He has already had his RB30 shortblock gone through, so you know where he is heading already...
Thanks for the links.
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Actually, you could not be further from the truth when discussing the emissions equipment you removed from your car!
Each has a specific function that can NOT be addressed by the ECU at ALL unless you have some very compex subroutines in the way you sequence timing percylinder based on combustion temperatures and peak cylinder pressures...
The EGR on the Z is a NOx reduction device, and MANY vehicle manufacturers still use it as an efficient way to decrease combustion temperatures at light throttle condition without punitive spark retard. UNless the engine is designed from the ground up to be of a Low NOx production design, there is no way around it to keep partial throttle NOx emissions lowere than by the introduction of EGR.
The PCV is simply evacuation and captive disposal of the gearbox windage and promotes ring sealing. Nobody who makes serious HP runs without a real PCV, and in facs most drag racers on the professional level install SMOG PUMPS to use as a positive vacuum source for their engines. If they figure turniong a 5hp accessory is worth it, they must have found on a dyno the get back more than they consume with that particular mod!
The Carbon Cannister is another example of emissions components that are not ECU controllable. It collects and provides a mechanisim whereby you can keep captive gasseous emissionf (gas fumes) from entering the atmosphere, and purges the accumulated stored contents of the cannister to the engine while running to keep from relesing them uncombusted and catalyzed.
Every component you removed did nothing to increas your performance, and arguably did much to increase the pollution your vehicle emits. If you swap your engine over to the 240 you STILL must COMPLY with the regulations, you just aren't tested bi-annually. This does NOT exempt you. The ONLY people in the state of California withan Emissions EXEMPTION are people driving "E" plated governmental vehicles (nice how the lawmakers exempt themselves from the laws they promulgate, huh? "Let them eat cake!") and Military personnel stationed in the state who plate their cars in their stated home of record state.
Even though you don't have to Bi-Annually test, remember the era of "REMOTE SENSING" is upon us, they are doing SHAKEDOWN tests of the equipment, and will start installing it in places of "noncompliance" to get you driving unaware. Not having to bi-annually test does NOT stop you from being flagged and run into any one of a number of roadside dyno emission cehck stations along the roadside all over the state during every summer... You fail at ANY of these remote points, chances are you WILL fail to "Gross Polluter Status" and will be PERMANENTLY reintroduced into the SMOG program (regardless of vehicle age) with an additional treat of having to test ANNUALLY at your own expense for the next five years after the infraction, after which you go back to the bi-annual testing FOREVER!
EVERYONE else must comply with emissions standards. And with the new law that was passes (which I think takes effect in March) there MAY be a re-institution of INITIAL out-of-state Smog Testing to insure compliance before letting the vehicle initially register in the state. This would be a VISUAL as well as FUNCTIONAL test.
Unless you meet a few criteria, but I am not sure how this would apply to out-of-state initial registrations...
Long and short of it, you got to have all the stuff on your car to pass. Both a tailpipe AND a visual testing of the vehicle.
Welcome to California. Don't forget to register and to Vote. Follow Rep Mountjoy's legislative agenda (R-Monrovia) he is a champion for automotive sanity in CA and has been for years. Support him, he is about the only gearhead in the legislature!
Join and support SEMA they are the orginization that lobbied and got some lifesaving loopholes included in the last legislation that passed and is going into effect in March 2005.
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Yes, this sounds like no ECU signal to the ignition transistor. If you have a fuel pump and pressure, you are very close.
You need ignition input to the ECU from the CAS unit, with that, it will shoot a signal to the coil ignitor (transistor) that gates the coil to ground.
Once you get an ignition pulse, the ECU will start pulsing the injectors, and you will run.
You are so very close. So very, very close. Make this work before you try standalone. The stock system is actually pretty easy to get into a car compared to the work involved in setting up the standalone which may or may not use your sensors you already have...
Megasquirt is always an option, it will work with the L28 CAS unit.
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OOPS!
I just "bumped" it to bring it back to the top so he could find it.
"Simultaneous Discoveries"
LOL
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not to digress too far from the point, but i was involved in the "Alternative Fuels" business for quite a while both directly and indirectly. I also lament the nice unrefined sugar taste in Coke found overseas...
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Woah guys, don't throw M85 in with E85!
M85 is a METHANOL based additive fuel, and REQUIRES the special fuel system requirements.
E85 on the other hand has been around for YEARS (You may know it as "Gasahol") though typically, "Gasahol" only has 10% Ethanol, and no more.
Don't buy the hype, Ethanol is not a "sustainable fuel" like the corn lobby says it is. Look to Brazil for their "Alcool" program. Fact of the matter is that most ethanol used is cracked from petroleum as it's more efficient to do that than make it from Biomass (corn, sugar beets, cane sugar, etc etc etc)
For a project I ran a VW Bus on 100% ethanol that I distilled myself (have the old BATF Forms somewhere in storage). Ran killer compression, mongo spark timing, and got about HALF the gas mileage as petroleum based fuels. The more alcohol you add, the WROSE fuel mileage you return.
There was a program at one time for "home production" of biomass fuels that allowed you to mix your own gasahol---the minimum mix was 10%---and that allowed you to file with the feds to get back all the federal taxes on thefuel you mixed. This is why Gasahol is so common in the midwest: Ethanol/Corn lobby has tax incentives, consumers don't realize they are getting worse fuel economy at a 10% mix, and they get (did I say this already) tax incentives and subsidies...
When you go over 10%, I suppose the mew "marketing MBA program" is to make it sound "new".
You want Octane, convert your car to run on CNG. 114 to 120 octane. You can fuel from a pump you can have installed at your house on your residential gas line. Gallon Equivalent pricing from residential gas lines at homes before tax incentives and credits ammounts to around .35 cents per gallon. If you can convince your boss at the Glass Factory to install the booster on the mainline there at a commercial consumer of Natural Gas, the cost drops to around 5 cents a gallon.
CNG and Propane are by far the most efficient conversions worldwide. Ethanol is an artificially propped-up pipe dream. Sorry ADM, no more money for you when I am crowned King of Energy Policy! LOL
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I'd agree with Mike, I wouldn't waste time tuning on a Dynojet if a Mustang was available (like in Oceanside...muahahaha)
The main advantage is they can hold a load point EXACTLY and you can screw with fuel and timing while holding there and get realtime readouts of changes good or bad when movingthings around. It allows you to peak optimize each load point in your fuel/load/spark map which will give better interpolation and FAR better drivability quicker.
Where it really is nice is the partial throttle tuning, where your choices are to either finda flat road, or gradual hill, and ride the brakes and annoying traffic to hold partial load points to tune them.
I don't know about you, but my wife does not respond well to being awakened at 0200 to go make fifteen or so passes up the VanBuren hill while I yell at her to hold the brakes at a load point. This makes us both stressed and upset.
On the other hand, she only complains a bit when she gets the CC bill for the dyno time...until I remind her of the "alternative solution"
LOL
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The answer WAS in the Moby the Van Sticky at the Turbocharged and Supercharged forum at this site.
The connection of the Megasquirt is EXACTLY the same for both Early and Late CAS units. This was the reason I used the 81CAS on my buildup, and posted to the sticky so everyone would know.
My problems with the MS centered around the "first user" syndrome not knowing if it was the same or not, and because the laptop I was using had a screwed com port. When 'scoped, the outputs from the 83 and 81 CAS units were identical at the board.
I hooked mine up exactly as Moby suggested in his sticky, and it works fine.
There is nothing special you need for the 81CAS. The answers WERE there.
Didn't realize the T&S stickies had dissappeared again.
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yes, that is the line from Nissan.
When dealing with the Turbo Automatics in US spec Cars they added volume and flow to compensate for the oil cooler system present on the Automatics.
Interestingly enough, the Turbo/Auto pumps are the most inexpensive of the lot, too!
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With good valve seals, not venting to the manifold is not an issue. But with a vehicle with 180K+ miles on it, the seals DO start seiving a LOT more oil when it's not used! Turbo or N/A...
In my personal experience, when I updated to a 60mm throttle valve on my N/A L28 EFI setup, the oil consumption went THROUGH THE ROOF! from less than a 1/2 quart in between oil changes to that much in 1000 miles (so a 3X increase).
All due, in my opinion to the removal of the BCDD under the stock Throttle Valve...
The N/A engines have something to limit vacuum spikes, too! The BCDD!
And when they go bad, they have a high idle that won't go away. I don't sense any "overspeed" when I lift the throttle, nor when I reapply. I will have to see that when I observe more closely in the future.
Anyway, both N/A and Turbo engines had devices to limit total manifold vacuum excursions. This is why so many people think they need to "rebuild" their engines at 180K---they slap on a big TB, run the heck out of it, and start realizing they have a plume on decel, start using more oil, etc etc etc. Compression is still fine, but those repeated spikes to 30"Hg don't do any favors to older valve seals! I was so disturbed by the increase in the oil consumption after the TB swap, I even asked others if they had noticed it...
Being it was the ONLY variable changed on that car at the time, there is little else it could have been. When I drive it hard, it sucks oil, and on the freeway at cruise, there is nary a problem.
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"Spring"...
You can add an M6 Flat Washer under the stock Turbo spring (actually several) and get the same effect as the Comp Springset.
I believe they sourced the springset for the "comp" pump from the Diesel L engine...
But M6 Flat Washers have a nice effect on the oil pressure. You can actually tailor the pressure where you want starting low, and working up to it one Washer at a time...
You only really need 10 psi per 1000 rpm... But sometimes conditions warrant more.
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depending on where you look, those Ford Injectors Bernard speaks of are supposed to be 550cc.
The 3.8's had the smaller units.
The 5.0's supported 215HP, I don';t know if you can do that on two 440cc injectors, butthe output from the 3.8 would easily be covered from a 440cc pair...
I have the same inejctors in some throttlebody setups I am prototyping. They are easily fit to the stock mainfold, but I used a drill press, and bored out the stock mainfold pintile hole so I didn't have to modify the injectors at all. The stock ones still fit fine in the modified manifold. I believe I used an "O" drill to make them fit. I have the measurements somewhere...
does megasquirt and megasquirt and spark...
in MegaSquirt
Posted
I actually have a little jumper of springy wire and yellow insulation taped inside the cover of the MS, and just stick it in the two jumper holes while bootloading.Unless you are loading stuff continuallyu like some of the developers, a switch may be unrequired expense.
The first box where I was continually loading stuff I had installed a switch, but when it went "poof" I just taped a jumper inside for if I need it!